Shams: Porzingis to Boston?

[greg683x]

So are we going to be pivoting away from the switch everything defense???  I can’t imagine we want KP switching onto small guards.

It would almost be a relief bc the Heat were picking on this at times

[radiohead]

Brad has shown everyone that he’s in charge. I think only JT is untouchable in his eyes. I have a feeling he’ll offer JB less than the supermax but still higher than what he could get if he enters free agency. If JB feels disrespected, then he’ll ship him out. I like JB but I just can’t fathom the thought that someone who was basically a no show and had 8 turnovers in a crucial game 7 will be rewarded with the richest deal in the NBA. That would be insane.

[SHAQATTACK]

I never thought Brown and Smart would be separated.

[tonydelk]

Interesting last couple of pages: Late picks will flop; team will be soft - is mentally weak; what if KP is injured; Mazzula can't develop players (or coach in general); big risk; will be in tear down mode if they fall short next season... 

CStrong has been filled with posts over the last couple of months about balancing the roster.  Brad brings in a 7'3" 23ppg scorer plus 2 solid assets for Smart and 2 guys who never played, and some here don't want to discuss the plus side.   

Celtics roster is crazy talented, and Brad isn't done.

LOL.  It's difficult when the player that is moved has been here so long and actually wanted to be here.  Marcus was a Celtic through and through.  Very similar emotions to the KP trade.  I unfortunately waited until midnight before I went to bed to see if a deal was going to go down.  When this happened it was very difficult to fall asleep.  We as fans get attached to players.  You don't see a lot of longevity in sports and you see your favorite players leave or get traded time and time again because at the end of the day it's a business.

With that being said and after a night of sleep I can actually comment on this now.  Last year when the C's got Brogdon for a basket of pennies we were elated.  This year because he got injured in the playoffs a lot of fans we happy to see him go.  I was not in that group.  Brogdon is a good defensive player and a very good offensive player.  He and Derrick White are better fits for this team then Marcus was.  The J's need spacing and no one was afraid of Marcus.  Teams wanted him to shoot.  He would occasionally get hot but most of the time he'd put up a ton of bricks.  A lot of those shots lead to transition baskets for the other team.  Was anyone excited when Smart chucked that shot in game 6 against Miami?  I know I was like anyone but Marcus.  White saved the day so all's forgiven.

Marcus will always be one of my favorite Celtics ever but he was a very flawed player.  Moving him and adding Zinger there will be more space for everyone.  Brogdon or White will keep teams honest.  Getting draft picks to rebuild young talent will help having cheap talent on the bench.  This will be our first chance to see what type of player Brad drafts.  I imagine it will be a 3 & D wing or a big.  People talk about Smart being our heart and soul.  He was but at times he could have a negative effect.  Like Grant getting in Jimmy Buckets face.  Smart is getting older in terms of NBA age and the things he does well are slowing down.  We got a younger player at a position that is hard to find players of his caliber.  Anyone can get hurt.  Marcus has missed time the last few years for injuries as well.  I think at the end of the day, all emotions aside, the team got much better.  Not incrementally better, much better.  Better balance, more protection for the J's and just overall more ability.  We talk about playmaking.  When White was starting because Smart was hurt he had a few 10 assist games.  IMO White is as good a playmaker as Smart.  He won't have the flashy assists that Marcus sometimes made (some resulted in really bad turnovers) but he can get the ball to the right person at the righ time.  When Brogdon was in Indy he had 7.1, 5.9 and 5.9 assists per game on a less talented team.  We still have playmakers.  Plus it will force Tatum and Brown to get better in that role and we will hopefully see even better team basketball.

With all of that said the Boston Celtics are a much better team today.  If feels like a loss because it is.  We are fans who get attached to our team.  Good Bye Marcus.  You will be missed. (Except when you play the C's)

[Roy H.]

Smart wanted to be the alpha and he just wasn’t. Celtics had to get clarity

My guess is smart and joe had issues

I can confirm I've heard from my sauces that Smart was overbearing at times with both Ime and Joe but for whatever reason Ime turned Smart energy on the court into a defensive monster where Joe struggled with his new defensive player of the year.

I don’t exactly remember, but did Smart “take over” timeouts during Ime’s time as he did numerous times with Joe?

Believe so. Believe there probably was some issues between smart and Joe as smart was quite outspoken criticizing Joe. Don’t think smart was shy among the team to express his lack of buy in. He took joe’s seat during a timeout even.

Maybe Brad felt like change was needed off the court as well as on

I don’t buy this entirely. Smart would still be here if the first deal with the Clippers didn’t fall through.

Yeah, I don't think their preference was to trade Smart.  I think Brad recognized that we'd continue to struggle at times without an inside scoring presence, so he made the best deal on the table.

[Who]

3 extremely injury prone guys = Timelord, Porzingis, Brogdon

3 healthy players = Tatum, Jaylen, D White

1 old man = Horford

That is our top 7 now. Half the team is injury prone.

[Who]

Listening to Bill Simmons podcast they are talking like this a one year rental? That doesn’t make me feel any better considering Smart was on a better contract with years left. If this was simply a dart board cost cutting trade I officially don’t like it. This flops next year then Brown is on the chopping block. This is a bigger risk than a lot of people are thinking about.

Yes, too high a price for a rental. Although maybe those 2 firsts end up making it okay. Not sure. Smart is too valuable to give up for 1 year of Porzingis.

And signing Porzignis to a long term contract is terrifying given how injury prone he has been + his size and the history of guys his size staying healthy.

I am not sure which is worse. Actually I am. I am more worried about the long term contract extension than losing Porzingis (Smart) for nothing on a rental.

[Who]

Brads got some balls for sure, fireworks for three off seasons in a row 

I think the trade results in a net gain for us. KP is (was) an All Star after all. He should flourish as the third option on our team and help open things up for the Jays. Whether it’s Malcolm or Derrick thst starts, Joe will be able to play a five out offense with everyone a spacer and everyone a perimeter threat. KP is also a solid rim protector.

I will miss Smartacus though, warts and all. He drove my head crazy at times with his high risk plays that only came off 20% of the time but when they did my heart wanted him to retire a Celtic.

I agree.  I think of Porzingis as kinda being to us now what Gordon Hayward was supposed to be back in the day - that stable, solid, reliable third scoring option who can take a lot of offensive pressure off Tatum and Brown.

That did not go in the direction I expected!

I thought you were talking about how Porzingis is going to doom us with his injury prone ways the same way Hayward did to us and now is doing to Charlotte.

I also do not think we should look at Porzingis as someone who is stable and consistent. He is a moody up and down player. An inconsistent player. The main reason he is inconsistent is because outside of scoring his effort fluctuates widely. And when it comes to scoring, he is a low BBIQ guy who struggles to find his role in an offense. So he is up and down there too. He will not bring stability and consistency. He will bring talent. But not stability and consistency.

[Celtics2021]

Listening to Bill Simmons podcast they are talking like this a one year rental? That doesn’t make me feel any better considering Smart was on a better contract with years left. If this was simply a dart board cost cutting trade I officially don’t like it. This flops next year then Brown is on the chopping block. This is a bigger risk than a lot of people are thinking about.

mark stein said they are talking about Extending Porzingis. this isn't a one year cost cutting move...

I would think there already is a handshake deal in place for an extension. Brad wouldn’t risk doing this trade if it wasn’t the case. It would be interesting to see if JB will get the supermax. In Mike Zarren we trust.

Brown is definitely getting the supermax

Why? Is Brown more interested in successful or solely focused on maximizing his earnings? If the Celtics don't offer him the super max and he becomes a free agent, he would receive a conventional maximum contract for four years. So, what if the Celtics offered him a little more than a conventional maximum contract for five years instead, enabling them to allocate funds towards acquiring other talented players and maintaining the team's competitiveness? This is an aspect that both Brown and Tatum should contemplate.

I believe the supermax rule only allows the Celtics to offer him the actually 35% this summer if they aren’t giving him a rehab or extension.  I don’t think 32%, or something at less than max raises, can even be on the table.  I might be wrong, but that’s my memory.

[Who]

I think the c's may be tear down mode if they fall short next year.

A big long term contract and the injury risk of Porzingis could doom the long term stability of this group. Destroy the long term health of this team and the break up of the Jays.

I don't think it'll be next year though. 2-3 years.

[Who]

Listening to Bill Simmons podcast they are talking like this a one year rental? That doesn’t make me feel any better considering Smart was on a better contract with years left. If this was simply a dart board cost cutting trade I officially don’t like it. This flops next year then Brown is on the chopping block. This is a bigger risk than a lot of people are thinking about.

How is it such a big risk? We have a huge asset to dangle teams in the form of a big time expiring contract (if it doesn’t work out), as well as the prospect of adding some good young talent over the next 12 months. If it does work out, we’re the best team in the East

The post above just answered that question. Those young players will never develop on a contender. They will end up complaining about playing time like Pritchard currently does if they actually pan out. Proven vets and ring chasers should be the goal at the end of the bench anyways.

Just like Tatum, Brown, Rozier and Williams (x2) didn’t develop? That’s just from recent Celtics history alone. Very weird bunch of assumptions based on no evidence

Late round picks almost all flop you know this. Rozier was nice trade bait I guess. Timelord fell for the same problems he currently has. Mazzulla won’t play them even if they show up early anyways.

"Almost all flop" is complete nonsense! Just utter rubbish.

I'd say late firsts have about a 20% chance of becoming a rotation caliber player. So an 80% chance of a non-rotation player.

The GSW pick should have better odds.

[Vermont Green]

I am heartbroken to see Smart traded but I understand.  I am probably in the 95th percentile in terms of Marcus love, I realize many do not rank him as high as I do.  But look how this deal changed when it was Marcus instead of Malcolm.  For Brogdon, LAC was willing to give up Marcus Morris and I think pick #30 was discussed (MIL pick via LAC).  Now that it is Marcus Smart, MEM is willing to give up Tyus Jones, pick #25, and a 2024 pick expected to be 15-25 range (at least that is what I expect).  That is a younger, more valuable player, a more valuable pick in 2023, and an additional pick in 2024.

I was prepared that Smart might get traded.  To me, it was absolutely the correct thing to do to trade one of Smart, White, Brogdon if it could bring back a starting level or better PF/C.  We got that plus move up 10 spots in 2023 and get a nice pick in 2024.  Giving up Gallinari and Muscala is not nothing, but Muscala hardly played and we have no idea what Gallinari will be.

I am hesitant on the picks as I don't think they will help much this coming season but in some ways, with the restrictions in the new CBA, draft picks may be a better avenue to add the supporting cast than trades and FA.  We essentially move up 10 spots in 2023.  That puts us in a whole different tier of player.  Some real added value there, but still just a rookie.

As to Porzingis, I like the player.  The bigs that were being discussed ranged from Ayton to Turner to Zion to Siakam.  I would rate Porzingis as a fringe All-Star.  He is better than Ayton or Turner.  Siakam is a past 2-time All-NBA and all star but I am not sure he is better than Porzingis.  And Zion is a potential MVP level player, we were not going to get him for Smart probably, but I am not sure we would want him over Porzingis with his issues (health and otherwise).

[angryguy77]

Liked smart, but I'm not going to miss his habit of killing momentum with a bad shot or stupid pass.  He was a liability at the end of games. We needed a legit big, and we got one providing he can remain on the court.

 

[footey]

Can mods or OP Change the heading of this thread. It’s a done deal.

[Who]

Embiid averaged 41ppg and 9rpg on 63.6% TS% against Washington in 2 games last season.

I know Porzingis has trouble with physical post players so I was curious how he did against Embiid. Porzingis had 9pts and 6rebs in the first game but a strong 2nd game with 24pts and 10rebs including 3blks and 2stls.