If I had a chance to trade Smart For Elfrid Peyton I would do it in a heartbeat

[BitterJim]

Read it...

He said college shooting stats are bad

The instant thing would be to check out the college statistics......

but no the guy posted this year's NBA stats,,,,,,,,,but not even that, he posted advanced stats for 2pt and 3pt categories.

But no he did not point that out at all.

What I do know is Payton shot 50.9% from the field and averaged 19.2 points a game in his final college year...

But maybe the guy's stats do prove one thing, that Smart sucks at finishing around the rim.

Yup, he DID say that his shooting stats were bad.  But, again, he never said that those stats were for college, and they were correct for the NBA, so, no, me and him weren't lying

I don't know why you insist on trying to prove that the other poster was lying

Dude he said Elfrid's shooting raises questions

so I look at Elfrid's 2 point percentage in College and he shot 54%,

Smart never shot better than any of Elfrid's 3 years at college.

So what questions are being raised?

Payton had a high shooting percentage because most of his attempts were at the rim, but his shooting was awful.  From DraftExpress:

Despite ranking 3rd shooting 45.2% from the field in the half court, he finished 3rd last scoring .828 points per-half court possession.

This disparity is the result of his limited jump shooting ability. Although he attempted just 3.2 jump shots in the half court per-game, the 4th least in this sample of players, he made a group low 25.7% of those attempts. His 18.2% conversion rate on catch and shoot jump shots obviously leaves a lot to be desired

From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz3OkzdsgUQ
http://www.draftexpress.com

[BitterJim]

It can if you suck at finishing

It could, but he doesn't suck at finishing at the rim so it should improve it.  The shots that should decrease it are long 2s

[Eddie20]

Read it...

He said college shooting stats are bad

The instant thing would be to check out the college statistics......

but no the guy posted this year's NBA stats,,,,,,,,,but not even that, he posted advanced stats for 2pt and 3pt categories.

But no he did not point that out at all.

What I do know is Payton shot 50.9% from the field and averaged 19.2 points a game in his final college year...

But maybe the guy's stats do prove one thing, that Smart sucks at finishing around the rim.

Yup, he DID say that his shooting stats were bad.  But, again, he never said that those stats were for college, and they were correct for the NBA, so, no, me and him weren't lying

I don't know why you insist on trying to prove that the other poster was lying

Dude he said Elfrid's shooting raises questions

so I look at Elfrid's 2 point percentage in College and he shot 54%,

Smart never shot better than any of Elfrid's 3 years at college.

So what questions are being raised?

Payton had a high shooting percentage because most of his attempts were at the rim, but his shooting was awful.  From DraftExpress:

Despite ranking 3rd shooting 45.2% from the field in the half court, he finished 3rd last scoring .828 points per-half court possession.

This disparity is the result of his limited jump shooting ability. Although he attempted just 3.2 jump shots in the half court per-game, the 4th least in this sample of players, he made a group low 25.7% of those attempts. His 18.2% conversion rate on catch and shoot jump shots obviously leaves a lot to be desired

From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz3OkzdsgUQ
http://www.draftexpress.com

BitterJim, this supports your argument.


Peyton's last 15 games...

[colincb]

No, Smart's shooting stats in the NBA are clearly better than Peyton's.

No they are not...but he is shooting better so far.

They both are still 40% shooters, no matter how you want to spin it...

Although Elfrid has been an abomination at the line,

but he takes no three pointers.



Right now Smart is actually benefiting from this freelance offense SHOOTING WISE, but he still cant shoot, or drive.

Smart shoots better from every single distance on the floor.

[celtics2030]

No, Smart's shooting stats in the NBA are clearly better than Peyton's.

No they are not...but he is shooting better so far.

They both are still 40% shooters, no matter how you want to spin it...

Although Elfrid has been an abomination at the line,

but he takes no three pointers.



Right now Smart is actually benefiting from this freelance offense SHOOTING WISE, but he still cant shoot, or drive.

Smart shoots better from every single distance on the floor.

Becuase has like 2 or 3 shots at every zone LOL.....All he does is shoot 3's , and thus is why the END GAME is that they both are 40% shooters right now.

SMARTS SHOT CHART THIS YEAR

[celtics2030]

Read it...

He said college shooting stats are bad

The instant thing would be to check out the college statistics......

but no the guy posted this year's NBA stats,,,,,,,,,but not even that, he posted advanced stats for 2pt and 3pt categories.

But no he did not point that out at all.

What I do know is Payton shot 50.9% from the field and averaged 19.2 points a game in his final college year...

But maybe the guy's stats do prove one thing, that Smart sucks at finishing around the rim.

Yup, he DID say that his shooting stats were bad.  But, again, he never said that those stats were for college, and they were correct for the NBA, so, no, me and him weren't lying

I don't know why you insist on trying to prove that the other poster was lying

Dude he said Elfrid's shooting raises questions

so I look at Elfrid's 2 point percentage in College and he shot 54%,

Smart never shot better than any of Elfrid's 3 years at college.

So what questions are being raised?

Payton had a high shooting percentage because most of his attempts were at the rim, but his shooting was awful.  From DraftExpress:

Despite ranking 3rd shooting 45.2% from the field in the half court, he finished 3rd last scoring .828 points per-half court possession.

This disparity is the result of his limited jump shooting ability. Although he attempted just 3.2 jump shots in the half court per-game, the 4th least in this sample of players, he made a group low 25.7% of those attempts. His 18.2% conversion rate on catch and shoot jump shots obviously leaves a lot to be desired

From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz3OkzdsgUQ
http://www.draftexpress.com

BitterJim, this supports your argument.


Peyton's last 15 games...

This supports nothing about shooting

Smart has like 3 shots to elfrids 34 from one zone lol

the sample size is not only low but its completely useless at this point.

What we do know is Smart is shooting the 3 ball A LOT, way more than Payton

Wether you want your starting point guard shooting 3's like Smart right is probably fine

but this is because none of you care about wins right since the team sucks

I doubt this is what you really want Smart to be doing once this team resembles anything of a playoff contender.

[colincb]

deleted

[BDeCosta26]

This is why you can never take Celticsblog seriously , EVER.

This is what I have seen so far

potential is 10 times better than Tony Allen...yea ten times 

He has the Fire , Passion, Competitive spirit..........in other words he cant play but he has effort.

Marcus Smart Shoots 10 million times better..........Yea,........10 million times better


Every one tells themselves what they want, then they post it on Celticsblog.

TA has only one Above average NBA skill. Perimeter defense. He's made quite a career off of it, I was always disappointed we couldn't keep him. But that's the only thing he's particularly good at. If I see another ten games of what I've seen so far from him, I'd say with certainty that he will be better than TA at perimeter defense.

And that's without even mentioning that Smarts shot today is already better than TA or Payton's will ever be. The ability to drive to the cup that he regularly showed in college is gonna appear more and more as he becomes a bigger focal point of our offense . A Marcus Smart who gets to the rack and hits 3s at even a league average rate like he's already doing in his rookie year is a VERY good player. Much, much better than TA.

And just because the people who rave about this kid, especially about his toughness, hustle and heart aren't using those words to say he lacks in top tier NBA skills. In fact it's the opposite. KG was a VERY good player who became great because of his infectious intensity and non stop hustle. Smart is in a similar situation where his inner drive to get better and heart for the game will make the difference in how much of his potential he reaches. If you've been watching the games this year, you wouldn't want to bet against that.

Yes, he's got a chance to be ten times the player Tony Allen ever was. And Payton's potential is somewhere above Kendall Marshall and below Rajon Rondo. Give me Smart 1000 times over. Celtic fans should be thrilled to have this kid.

"Kendall Marshall and Below Rondo"

LOL

That's probably even giving Payton too much credit. Marshall is a better shooter, and was coming out of UNC. I think your misunderstanding me. Elfrid Payton could be a nice ball player. Marshall is a solid back-up PG who sees the floor very well, just as Payton does, while his shooting is suspect albeit less so than Payton's. Rondo is about the max level of achievement a player like Payton, who's whole game is based on excellent court vision, a good defensive motor and above average rebounding skills, can hope for. A player in between those two is a starting caliber PG. that's pretty good.

But Smart has a Higher ceiling. I don't think that's all that debatable now that we've seen them in extended NBA action. I'm just trying to debate the merits of Smart vs Payton with you. Just because we don't agree doesn't mean you get to mock my opinion like it has no validity. Stick to the issue at hand.

[celtics2030]

I guess Marcus Smart's ceiling is between Marcus Banks and Baron Davis

[Boris Badenov]

In terms of from where and how he shoots as a 20 year old rookie, Payton looks a lot like a certain former Celtics PG:

http://bkref.com/tiny/KjWAw

[hwangjini_1]

folks here are using points, assists, and rebounds as comparison stats, which is fine. but when looking at differences shooting percentages need to be viewed fully as well.

peyton's shooting, even in college, raises questions.

peyton
2pt% = 41.1
3pt% = 21.1
ft% = 48.8

smart
2pt% = 48.9
3pt% = 35
ft% = 68.8

Why are you lying?

Why are you accusing him of lying? Those stats are correct, look them up.

so your lying as well?

Your telling me that Elfrid Payton did not average 19.2 points a game and 50.9% from the field in his final year?

these guys are lying too.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/paytoel01.html

[Eja117]

In terms of from where and how he shoots as a 20 year old rookie, Payton looks a lot like a certain former Celtics PG:

http://bkref.com/tiny/KjWAw

Interesting that Rondo's rookie stats are a solid notch above Smart's. I love the way people keep saying Rondo is/was a bad shooter even though Smart can't shoot and Rondo had better shooting stats as a rookie. Had more steals too. Basically had more of everything that's useful. But hey. Smart plays with effort I guess. Which is sad. I mean you play with this legendary effort, but still can't get it done. I know. I know. I'm a troll. Smart just plays soooooo haaarrrddd. He would neeevvverrr dog it. I know.

[BitterJim]

In terms of from where and how he shoots as a 20 year old rookie, Payton looks a lot like a certain former Celtics PG:

http://bkref.com/tiny/KjWAw

Interesting that Rondo's rookie stats are a solid notch above Smart's. I love the way people keep saying Rondo is/was a bad shooter even though Smart can't shoot and Rondo had better shooting stats as a rookie. Had more steals too. Basically had more of everything that's useful. But hey. Smart plays with effort I guess. Which is sad. I mean you play with this legendary effort, but still can't get it done. I know. I know. I'm a troll. Smart just plays soooooo haaarrrddd. He would neeevvverrr dog it. I know.

I'm wondering what it is about Rondo's shooting stats that's better than Smart's, he took more 2pters and FTs but he shot worse on 2s, 3s, and FTs.  Rondo is a good comp for Payton, but he and Smart are totally different players

He compares/projects better to Kyle Lowry: http://bkref.com/tiny/AFKir

EDIT:  Looking at it more, I'm actually amazed at how well Payton and Rondo's rookie seasons compare.  That doesn't necessarily mean that Payton will be as good as Rondo, but it's almost uncanny

[hwangjini_1]

In terms of from where and how he shoots as a 20 year old rookie, Payton looks a lot like a certain former Celtics PG:

http://bkref.com/tiny/KjWAw

Interesting that Rondo's rookie stats are a solid notch above Smart's. I love the way people keep saying Rondo is/was a bad shooter even though Smart can't shoot and Rondo had better shooting stats as a rookie. Had more steals too. Basically had more of everything that's useful. But hey. Smart plays with effort I guess. Which is sad. I mean you play with this legendary effort, but still can't get it done. I know. I know. I'm a troll. Smart just plays soooooo haaarrrddd. He would neeevvverrr dog it. I know.

and let's not forget that we as cb posters are able to make definitive pronouncements concerning players' entire future career as an nba player based upon itty bitty sample sizes.

arise, oh mighty kraken of the small sample size!!!

(DOS, that's your cue!) 

[Granath]

...interesting that Rondo's rookie stats are a solid notch above Smart's. I love the way people keep saying Rondo is/was a bad shooter even though Smart can't shoot and Rondo had better shooting stats as a rookie.

Rondo eFG% 2006: .424
Smart eFG 2014: .512

Outside of 3 feet, Smart is a markedly better shooter in every single category. So let's cut the made-up bullEdited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline., shall we?

You're right in that Rookie Rondo stats (except in scoring and shooting) are a notch above Smart's. So what?  Rondo had a MARKEDLY better cast to work around. Let's face it - Rondo is a 4 time All Star and chances are that Marcus Smart (or any other player in the league) won't be. But he hasn't looked bad on the court, hasn't hesitated to take the important shot and has played with intensity and focus. Given that he's a 20 year old kid and given the changes that have taken place in the last month, I'd say the kid looks pretty [dang] good on the court.

The true test for Smart will be post-All Star break / post-trade deadline. Once the team is settled and his minutes are consistent, that's when we can evaluate not only his current skill set, but also we'll have a chance to evaluate his growth (or lack thereof). Until such time, any emphatic judgments as to his abilities are rather premature.