If I had a chance to trade Smart For Elfrid Peyton I would do it in a heartbeat

[RJ87]

in addition,  "heart" and "toughness" are frequently just euphemisms for talentless.

Lol, TP.

Smart does have talent and I'll think he'll be a starting caliber guard down the line, but I don't see star with him as so many other do. I think longterm he can be a better defensive version of Tyreke Evans.

Tyreke Evans with better defense IS a star.  Tyreke averaged 20-5-5 as a rookie.

I meant the current iteration of Tyreke Evans - why do people act like he hasn't had a career beyond that rookie season? I digress... At his very best, Marcus could be a 16-5-5 guy with solid defense. That's not too shabby, its an above average starter. Maybe Eric Bledsoe would be a better comparison. Not necessarily a star in the vein of Russell Westbrook or prime-Derrick Rose as some others seem to think he's capable of being.

[aingeforthree]

Anyone who not just watches the game, but actually pays attention to strategy would know that Stevens does not run offensive plays for Smart.

Seems like his role is to run the offense, be available for the 3 if things break down, facilitate when applicable, and harass offenders. If Stevens decides to actually allow Smart to do things for the offense other than set it up for other guys, you would see a high, 18 to 19 points a game PG.

I'm a huge Smart fan and want to see him with more minutes and getting the ball more, but if I was coaching the C's (god help us) I would not run plays for him very often.

Right now the things he does well on offense are passing and dirty work. So I would give him the ball at the start of the play, but I'd want him hitting cutters and bigs who should still be the focal points of the offense, and then space the floor and do the dirty work (screen, cut, get to loose balls). He should have the freedom to score or distribute in transition, make a play when stuff breaks down, and take advantage of smaller defenders in the halfcourt, but that'd be about it for me. That's just what his skillset is.

The only thing I would try a bit more is him as a pick and roll ball handler. Not sure if it would work, but they don't seem to even try which is odd.

Obviously his defense in unlike any 20 year old we've ever seen come into the league, but he impresses me game by game with his PG instincts.  He's a pass first PG, and he's darn good at it already.  The PG IQ is already there for this youngster.

I'm impressed already how he sees the floor, leads, and his play in the pick and roll.  He finds open shooters all game it seems.  He's really impressive.  I didn't know he had that point guard IQ (mentality) already.  I thought he was more a mess on offense but of course a strong defender coming out of the draft.  He's far more than that and he proves it by showing he's a floor general.

Impressive at 20 years of age.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

Saying someone is competitive and has heart does not mean they aren't good players. KG is a huge one and that's just one example (I can give many more if you want).

Why is it that a lot of people hate more on our own players while propping up other players? Every day I check this site, there is only one person who currently plays for the Celtics that people don't trash and that's Z (new guys and Young don't count but I can imagine a year from now after unmet expectations). Everyone else gets a "bad player" thread at least every other week. GWall rarely plays and people still talk bad about him LOL.

I'm not saying you have to love our guys but man, can they get a break at all?

Smart isn't automatically a great player= bum
AB isn't good at every single aspect of the game= DA that contract is the worst ever
Bass not a star=bum
Pressey 3-4th PG who racks up DNP= worst player ever (okay, 2nd, ppl still mad about Fab)
KO not even through 2nd season, horribly  inconsistent= Giannis is a god
GWall= DA messed us up for years give up a first to get rid of him
Sully= Allstar one day and horrible fatty the next

 

I'm glad the players don't seem to meet up with a lot of you (that or you lie face2face), they always say good things about the fans.

[aingeforthree]

Saying someone is competitive and has heart does not mean they aren't good players. KG is a huge one and that's just one example (I can give many more if you want).

Why is it that a lot of people hate more on our own players while propping up other players? Every day I check this site, there is only one person who currently plays for the Celtics that people don't trash and that's Z (new guys and Young don't count but I can imagine a year from now after unmet expectations). Everyone else gets a "bad player" thread at least every other week. GWall rarely plays and people still talk bad about him LOL.

I'm not saying you have to love our guys but man, can they get a break at all?



  Smart isn't automatically a great player= bum
AB isn't good at every single aspect of the game= DA that contract is the worst ever
Bass not a star=bum
Pressey 3-4th PG who racks up DNP= worst player ever (okay, 2nd, ppl still mad about Fab)
KO not even through 2nd season, horribly  inconsistent= Giannis is a god
GWall= DA messed us up for years give up a first to get rid of him
Sully= Allstar one day and horrible fatty the next

I'm glad the players don't seem to meet up with a lot of you (that or you lie face2face), they always say good things about the fans.

That's pretty much it in a nutshell.  You just saved me a week's worth of reading on the board.  Thanks !

[celtics2030]

Saying someone is competitive and has heart does not mean they aren't good players. KG is a huge one and that's just one example (I can give many more if you want).

Why is it that a lot of people hate more on our own players while propping up other players? Every day I check this site, there is only one person who currently plays for the Celtics that people don't trash and that's Z (new guys and Young don't count but I can imagine a year from now after unmet expectations). Everyone else gets a "bad player" thread at least every other week. GWall rarely plays and people still talk bad about him LOL.

I'm not saying you have to love our guys but man, can they get a break at all?

Smart isn't automatically a great player= bum
AB isn't good at every single aspect of the game= DA that contract is the worst ever
Bass not a star=bum
Pressey 3-4th PG who racks up DNP= worst player ever (okay, 2nd, ppl still mad about Fab)
KO not even through 2nd season, horribly  inconsistent= Giannis is a god
GWall= DA messed us up for years give up a first to get rid of him
Sully= Allstar one day and horrible fatty the next

 

I'm glad the players don't seem to meet up with a lot of you (that or you lie face2face), they always say good things about the fans.

You seem to mistake opinions for facts.

The reality with this forum is that most of the fans here are homers, who will take opinions as a rub on their players, then completely right a post about why the opinion of that person is wrong. Which is funny because all it shows is that they somehow think they can prove with the stats that they discount themselves because it's "only 22 games" or he is "still young"

Opinions are based on Facts, and history, also physical abilities

Many people have said Smart is no the most ahtletic, while Elfrid is extremely atheltic
Many have said Smart cannot finish or does not play above the rim, while Elfrid does all those better.....

so my opinion is that Elfird will be a very good pentrator and good finisher to the basket , while smart will probably never be that good.....

See that is the opinion based on scouts who have watched these guys play, they have based it on athleticism as well, which seems like Smart has not got too much of,

And what do you know? You can see that Smart is not a driver, a finisher, a go to the hoop type player.


The people who talk out of there butts so to speak are not the ones saying Smart wont be as good, its the ones who think he will be a star or a very good player.

[Donoghus]

"Opinion is the medium between knowledge and ignorance"

[greg683x]

Anyone who not just watches the game, but actually pays attention to strategy would know that Stevens does not run offensive plays for Smart.

Seems like his role is to run the offense, be available for the 3 if things break down, facilitate when applicable, and harass offenders. If Stevens decides to actually allow Smart to do things for the offense other than set it up for other guys, you would see a high, 18 to 19 points a game PG.

i dont think you understand why people are disappointed.  People were expecting Smart to be the type of player that creates his own offense, that you shouldnt have to run plays for him.

Theres been plenty of times where plays have broken down, hes been in the open court, or some other type of scenario where we arent in an offensive set and he either defers or shoots a contested jumper.  When we drafted this guy lots of people thought we were getting a guy that could break people down off the dribble, get in the paint, and either finish or get to the line.

Im not saying he wont get there or theres some other reason for it, it's just that some folks are surprised at what we have here, and that we havent seen him create more for himself.

[hwangjini_1]

folks here are using points, assists, and rebounds as comparison stats, which is fine. but when looking at differences shooting percentages need to be viewed fully as well.

peyton's shooting, even in college, raises questions.

peyton
2pt% = 41.1
3pt% = 21.1
ft% = 48.8

smart
2pt% = 48.9
3pt% = 35
ft% = 68.8

[BDeCosta26]

This is why you can never take Celticsblog seriously , EVER.

This is what I have seen so far

potential is 10 times better than Tony Allen...yea ten times 

He has the Fire , Passion, Competitive spirit..........in other words he cant play but he has effort.

Marcus Smart Shoots 10 million times better..........Yea,........10 million times better


Every one tells themselves what they want, then they post it on Celticsblog.

TA has only one Above average NBA skill. Perimeter defense. He's made quite a career off of it, I was always disappointed we couldn't keep him. But that's the only thing he's particularly good at. If I see another ten games of what I've seen so far from him, I'd say with certainty that he will be better than TA at perimeter defense.

And that's without even mentioning that Smarts shot today is already better than TA or Payton's will ever be. The ability to drive to the cup that he regularly showed in college is gonna appear more and more as he becomes a bigger focal point of our offense . A Marcus Smart who gets to the rack and hits 3s at even a league average rate like he's already doing in his rookie year is a VERY good player. Much, much better than TA.

And just because the people who rave about this kid, especially about his toughness, hustle and heart aren't using those words to say he lacks in top tier NBA skills. In fact it's the opposite. KG was a VERY good player who became great because of his infectious intensity and non stop hustle. Smart is in a similar situation where his inner drive to get better and heart for the game will make the difference in how much of his potential he reaches. If you've been watching the games this year, you wouldn't want to bet against that.

Yes, he's got a chance to be ten times the player Tony Allen ever was. And Payton's potential is somewhere above Kendall Marshall and below Rajon Rondo. Give me Smart 1000 times over. Celtic fans should be thrilled to have this kid.

[BDeCosta26]

If people thought they were getting a guy who could constantly create his own shot and the Cs could just stick out there in ISO sets and he was gonna put up 20 points a game right off the rip then someone gave them the wrong impression. You could see by his games at OSU he wasn't gonna be able to do that.

But here's the deal, the Celtics have nobody right now. A few mid level prospects, a couple nice scrap heap pickups and 100 draft picks. I'm not saying Smart is gonna be a top 10 NBA player. But he's the only player we have who could be one of our three most important players on the team who gets. #18. Some people around here say the craziest stuff. Be disappointed in Anthony Bennett, not Smart.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

Saying someone is competitive and has heart does not mean they aren't good players. KG is a huge one and that's just one example (I can give many more if you want).

Why is it that a lot of people hate more on our own players while propping up other players? Every day I check this site, there is only one person who currently plays for the Celtics that people don't trash and that's Z (new guys and Young don't count but I can imagine a year from now after unmet expectations). Everyone else gets a "bad player" thread at least every other week. GWall rarely plays and people still talk bad about him LOL.

I'm not saying you have to love our guys but man, can they get a break at all?

Smart isn't automatically a great player= bum
AB isn't good at every single aspect of the game= DA that contract is the worst ever
Bass not a star=bum
Pressey 3-4th PG who racks up DNP= worst player ever (okay, 2nd, ppl still mad about Fab)
KO not even through 2nd season, horribly  inconsistent= Giannis is a god
GWall= DA messed us up for years give up a first to get rid of him
Sully= Allstar one day and horrible fatty the next

 

I'm glad the players don't seem to meet up with a lot of you (that or you lie face2face), they always say good things about the fans.

You seem to mistake opinions for facts.

The reality with this forum is that most of the fans here are homers, who will take opinions as a rub on their players, then completely right a post about why the opinion of that person is wrong. Which is funny because all it shows is that they somehow think they can prove with the stats that they discount themselves because it's "only 22 games" or he is "still young"

Opinions are based on Facts, and history, also physical abilities

Many people have said Smart is no the most ahtletic, while Elfrid is extremely atheltic
Many have said Smart cannot finish or does not play above the rim, while Elfrid does all those better.....

so my opinion is that Elfird will be a very good pentrator and good finisher to the basket , while smart will probably never be that good.....

See that is the opinion based on scouts who have watched these guys play, they have based it on athleticism as well, which seems like Smart has not got too much of,

And what do you know? You can see that Smart is not a driver, a finisher, a go to the hoop type player.


The people who talk out of there butts so to speak are not the ones saying Smart wont be as good, its the ones who think he will be a star or a very good player.

It doesn't matter if it's an opinion or not if it doesn't make sense it doesn't make sense.

Also, this may come as a shock to you but scouts have been wrong MANY TIMES too.  I could own the Celtics if I was paid in nickles every time a scout was wrong. Equally as shocking, scouts are giving their opinions too, no matter what they base it on. Any bum off the street can use the same data they use and be as right/wrong as a scout can be. Yes, some people can have a better understanding of how to judge players but just look at how many people who are drafted and aren't playing in the league the next few seasons... who helped decide to pick them? What do you know? Scouts. I'm not sure, maybe it was Joe Blow who chose Fab Melo (one of thousands)? 

I won't believe you really think all or even a great majority of opinions are based on facts, history, and physical abilities.

*Avery Bradley is a terrible player
*Avery Bradley is a great player

Give you both sides of the spectrum. Now, just with those small examples, tell me how either one of those opinions are based on any of those things.

Many people (loads of scouts) say that this person or that person is the next Bird, Jordan, etc. when they step up to the big leagues they are nothing more than the next bust.

[Celtics18]

Saying someone is competitive and has heart does not mean they aren't good players. KG is a huge one and that's just one example (I can give many more if you want).

Why is it that a lot of people hate more on our own players while propping up other players? Every day I check this site, there is only one person who currently plays for the Celtics that people don't trash and that's Z (new guys and Young don't count but I can imagine a year from now after unmet expectations). Everyone else gets a "bad player" thread at least every other week. GWall rarely plays and people still talk bad about him LOL.

I'm not saying you have to love our guys but man, can they get a break at all?

Smart isn't automatically a great player= bum
AB isn't good at every single aspect of the game= DA that contract is the worst ever
Bass not a star=bum
Pressey 3-4th PG who racks up DNP= worst player ever (okay, 2nd, ppl still mad about Fab)
KO not even through 2nd season, horribly  inconsistent= Giannis is a god
GWall= DA messed us up for years give up a first to get rid of him
Sully= Allstar one day and horrible fatty the next

 

I'm glad the players don't seem to meet up with a lot of you (that or you lie face2face), they always say good things about the fans.

You seem to mistake opinions for facts.

The reality with this forum is that most of the fans here are homers, who will take opinions as a rub on their players, then completely right a post about why the opinion of that person is wrong. Which is funny because all it shows is that they somehow think they can prove with the stats that they discount themselves because it's "only 22 games" or he is "still young"

Opinions are based on Facts, and history, also physical abilities

Many people have said Smart is no the most ahtletic, while Elfrid is extremely atheltic
Many have said Smart cannot finish or does not play above the rim, while Elfrid does all those better.....

so my opinion is that Elfird will be a very good pentrator and good finisher to the basket , while smart will probably never be that good.....

See that is the opinion based on scouts who have watched these guys play, they have based it on athleticism as well, which seems like Smart has not got too much of,

And what do you know? You can see that Smart is not a driver, a finisher, a go to the hoop type player.


The people who talk out of there butts so to speak are not the ones saying Smart wont be as good, its the ones who think he will be a star or a very good player.

I question the assertion that Elfrid Payton is more athletic than Marcus Smart or that Payton "plays above the rim."

I don't believe those statements to be true, based on what I've seen, read, and--dare I do this--their respective pre draft measurements.

I definitely think that Payton has better natural point guard skills as a ball handler and a passer than Marcus.  On the other hand, Marcus is a better shooter and defender. 

Personally, I'm glad we chose Marcus.  He's the guy I wanted going into the draft, and I'm willing to stick with him.  I love his toughness, his competitiveness, his leadership qualities, and his ability to defend.

Time will tell.  This is no knock on Elfrid Payton, who I believe has the tools to turn into a very good pro himself.

[celtics2030]

folks here are using points, assists, and rebounds as comparison stats, which is fine. but when looking at differences shooting percentages need to be viewed fully as well.

peyton's shooting, even in college, raises questions.

peyton
2pt% = 41.1
3pt% = 21.1
ft% = 48.8

smart
2pt% = 48.9
3pt% = 35
ft% = 68.8

Why are you lying?

[celtics2030]

This is why you can never take Celticsblog seriously , EVER.

This is what I have seen so far

potential is 10 times better than Tony Allen...yea ten times 

He has the Fire , Passion, Competitive spirit..........in other words he cant play but he has effort.

Marcus Smart Shoots 10 million times better..........Yea,........10 million times better


Every one tells themselves what they want, then they post it on Celticsblog.

TA has only one Above average NBA skill. Perimeter defense. He's made quite a career off of it, I was always disappointed we couldn't keep him. But that's the only thing he's particularly good at. If I see another ten games of what I've seen so far from him, I'd say with certainty that he will be better than TA at perimeter defense.

And that's without even mentioning that Smarts shot today is already better than TA or Payton's will ever be. The ability to drive to the cup that he regularly showed in college is gonna appear more and more as he becomes a bigger focal point of our offense . A Marcus Smart who gets to the rack and hits 3s at even a league average rate like he's already doing in his rookie year is a VERY good player. Much, much better than TA.

And just because the people who rave about this kid, especially about his toughness, hustle and heart aren't using those words to say he lacks in top tier NBA skills. In fact it's the opposite. KG was a VERY good player who became great because of his infectious intensity and non stop hustle. Smart is in a similar situation where his inner drive to get better and heart for the game will make the difference in how much of his potential he reaches. If you've been watching the games this year, you wouldn't want to bet against that.

Yes, he's got a chance to be ten times the player Tony Allen ever was. And Payton's potential is somewhere above Kendall Marshall and below Rajon Rondo. Give me Smart 1000 times over. Celtic fans should be thrilled to have this kid.

"Kendall Marshall and Below Rondo"

LOL

[celtics2030]

Saying someone is competitive and has heart does not mean they aren't good players. KG is a huge one and that's just one example (I can give many more if you want).

Why is it that a lot of people hate more on our own players while propping up other players? Every day I check this site, there is only one person who currently plays for the Celtics that people don't trash and that's Z (new guys and Young don't count but I can imagine a year from now after unmet expectations). Everyone else gets a "bad player" thread at least every other week. GWall rarely plays and people still talk bad about him LOL.

I'm not saying you have to love our guys but man, can they get a break at all?

Smart isn't automatically a great player= bum
AB isn't good at every single aspect of the game= DA that contract is the worst ever
Bass not a star=bum
Pressey 3-4th PG who racks up DNP= worst player ever (okay, 2nd, ppl still mad about Fab)
KO not even through 2nd season, horribly  inconsistent= Giannis is a god
GWall= DA messed us up for years give up a first to get rid of him
Sully= Allstar one day and horrible fatty the next

 

I'm glad the players don't seem to meet up with a lot of you (that or you lie face2face), they always say good things about the fans.

You seem to mistake opinions for facts.

The reality with this forum is that most of the fans here are homers, who will take opinions as a rub on their players, then completely right a post about why the opinion of that person is wrong. Which is funny because all it shows is that they somehow think they can prove with the stats that they discount themselves because it's "only 22 games" or he is "still young"

Opinions are based on Facts, and history, also physical abilities

Many people have said Smart is no the most ahtletic, while Elfrid is extremely atheltic
Many have said Smart cannot finish or does not play above the rim, while Elfrid does all those better.....

so my opinion is that Elfird will be a very good pentrator and good finisher to the basket , while smart will probably never be that good.....

See that is the opinion based on scouts who have watched these guys play, they have based it on athleticism as well, which seems like Smart has not got too much of,

And what do you know? You can see that Smart is not a driver, a finisher, a go to the hoop type player.


The people who talk out of there butts so to speak are not the ones saying Smart wont be as good, its the ones who think he will be a star or a very good player.

It doesn't matter if it's an opinion or not if it doesn't make sense it doesn't make sense.

Also, this may come as a shock to you but scouts have been wrong MANY TIMES too.  I could own the Celtics if I was paid in nickles every time a scout was wrong. Equally as shocking, scouts are giving their opinions too, no matter what they base it on. Any bum off the street can use the same data they use and be as right/wrong as a scout can be. Yes, some people can have a better understanding of how to judge players but just look at how many people who are drafted and aren't playing in the league the next few seasons... who helped decide to pick them? What do you know? Scouts. I'm not sure, maybe it was Joe Blow who chose Fab Melo (one of thousands)? 

I won't believe you really think all or even a great majority of opinions are based on facts, history, and physical abilities.

*Avery Bradley is a terrible player
*Avery Bradley is a great player

Give you both sides of the spectrum. Now, just with those small examples, tell me how either one of those opinions are based on any of those things.

Many people (loads of scouts) say that this person or that person is the next Bird, Jordan, etc. when they step up to the big leagues they are nothing more than the next bust.

I said before

Avery Bradley will not be starter on a good team that wants to win one , why? because hes undersized, and lacks basketball IQ .....DONE DEAL

What you get on Celticsblog

"Bradley can do backdoor cuts, him and Rondo will be special, hes can be really good"


That is what you get here. Not reality based facts. This is the NBA not college.