If I had a chance to trade Smart For Elfrid Peyton I would do it in a heartbeat

[celtics2030]

2014-2015 Stats:

Smart: 6.5 ppg, 2.8 apg, 2.3 rpg, 1.1 spg, 1.3 topg, 3p% .349, fg% .394, 21.4 mpg

Payton: 7.0 ppg, 5.3 apg, 3.6 rpg, 1.4 spg, 2.3 topg, 3p% .211, fg% .400, 26.4 mpg

In five more minutes per game and a much more prominent role on the team, Payton is hardly doing anything more than Smart.

Sounds like two good rookies to me. I like them both. Can't wait to see them grow. I like a few of the rookies from this season.

Why can none of you break down players.....it is either stats, or an excuse....that is all with you guys.

And even when I try to explain reasoning, it goes back to stats and excuses.

You obviously love stats yourself, your post started the conversation. Hahaha you are so funny.


I watch both players play, I don't need a stat to tell me that both are good rookies. I haven't posted a stat yet.


I watch a few guys from this draft a lot of them are solid. So far they aren't as great out of the gate as people said they would be but a lot of them are solid and go unnoticed.

There should not be an argument here...

for anyone that responded to me, they have shown that they disagree with me, so it is not my fault...

im arguing my point , but in the beginning it was just an assessment on my part about both players.

Nobody can tell me I am wrong. I cannot tell you, you are wrong, because it is early....

but like i said before, I can give you a good scouting style report on what my eyes see...what others have said and what it has translated on the court...

Payton is doing the things I thought he could do and I have heard he can do

tonight is a good example, not because he had a great game and i pointed it out

but it shows what he can do,

drive to the basket,

finish above the rim,

get to the line

he had 12 assists in the game and still had 22 points.......He only shot 1 three pointer and missed it!

To me that is impressive

Then you go to Smart and all he is doing is hoisting up three pointers.....but the excuse is he has heart......ok if that is how you guys want to put it.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

2014-2015 Stats:

Smart: 6.5 ppg, 2.8 apg, 2.3 rpg, 1.1 spg, 1.3 topg, 3p% .349, fg% .394, 21.4 mpg

Payton: 7.0 ppg, 5.3 apg, 3.6 rpg, 1.4 spg, 2.3 topg, 3p% .211, fg% .400, 26.4 mpg

In five more minutes per game and a much more prominent role on the team, Payton is hardly doing anything more than Smart.

Sounds like two good rookies to me. I like them both. Can't wait to see them grow. I like a few of the rookies from this season.

Why can none of you break down players.....it is either stats, or an excuse....that is all with you guys.

And even when I try to explain reasoning, it goes back to stats and excuses.

Why is it impossible for you to get over your Smart bias?

Honestly, I don't even know what you're arguing anymore. You change your argument's direction every time evidence is shown to disprove your argument.

You don't like Smart because he's been shooting alot of threes? Well, it's funny that you want to look at his small sample size in the NBA, but you neglect to look at two years of college evidence that doesn't support your argument. It seems obvious that Stevens is having these guys work on their shots, because wins don't mean anything this year. Geeeeezzzeeeeee.

LOL more excuses!

Nobody has yet to disprove my argument, because nobody will admit anything in here. It is all excuses.


I've done nothing but tell you the truth.

Smart shoots three pointers not because the coach tells him too, its because he cannot drive or finish, he does not have the best athleticism......hes a hustle player, but everytime he even tries to the hold the ball ends up in the 4th row stands.

LOL you keep telling your "truth" because every opposing opinion you see, you say it's "making excuses." No amount of evidence to the contrary will appease you because your eyes tell you one thing and that's the end of it for you.

I always say stats don't tell the whole story but somehow you think your eyes tell the whole story.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

2014-2015 Stats:

Smart: 6.5 ppg, 2.8 apg, 2.3 rpg, 1.1 spg, 1.3 topg, 3p% .349, fg% .394, 21.4 mpg

Payton: 7.0 ppg, 5.3 apg, 3.6 rpg, 1.4 spg, 2.3 topg, 3p% .211, fg% .400, 26.4 mpg

In five more minutes per game and a much more prominent role on the team, Payton is hardly doing anything more than Smart.

Sounds like two good rookies to me. I like them both. Can't wait to see them grow. I like a few of the rookies from this season.

Why can none of you break down players.....it is either stats, or an excuse....that is all with you guys.

And even when I try to explain reasoning, it goes back to stats and excuses.

You obviously love stats yourself, your post started the conversation. Hahaha you are so funny.


I watch both players play, I don't need a stat to tell me that both are good rookies. I haven't posted a stat yet.


I watch a few guys from this draft a lot of them are solid. So far they aren't as great out of the gate as people said they would be but a lot of them are solid and go unnoticed.

There should not be an argument here...

for anyone that responded to me, they have shown that they disagree with me, so it is not my fault...

im arguing my point , but in the beginning it was just an assessment on my part about both players.

Nobody can tell me I am wrong. I cannot tell you, you are wrong, because it is early....

but like i said before, I can give you a good scouting style report on what my eyes see...what others have said and what it has translated on the court...

Payton is doing the things I thought he could do and I have heard he can do

tonight is a good example, not because he had a great game and i pointed it out

but it shows what he can do,

drive to the basket,

finish above the rim,

get to the line

he had 12 assists in the game and still had 22 points.......He only shot 1 three pointer and missed it!

To me that is impressive

Then you go to Smart and all he is doing is hoisting up three pointers.....but the excuse is he has heart......ok if that is how you guys want to put it.

Marcus Smart ,
5 points , 6 rebounds, 4 assists, 1-4 , 1-3 from 3 Point Line , 2-2 from Free Throw


Elfrid Payton
22 Points, 4 rebounds, 12 assists, 9-16, 0-1 from 3 Point Lines, 4-5 from Free Throw


Besides tooting my own horn over one game

Marcus Smart again only shooting 3 pointers, while Elfrid Payton getting to the paint, creating and 1's, 10 points in the 4th quarter tonight, 2nd straight night with 10+ in the 4th

Can we believe that Marcus Smart can do anything on offense besides shoot 3 pointers?

Who brought Smart into this again? Right.

I can argue why Smart doesn't go to the rim but many people have and you call it "excuses" because your eyes tell it all. 

[jpotter33]

2014-2015 Stats:

Smart: 6.5 ppg, 2.8 apg, 2.3 rpg, 1.1 spg, 1.3 topg, 3p% .349, fg% .394, 21.4 mpg

Payton: 7.0 ppg, 5.3 apg, 3.6 rpg, 1.4 spg, 2.3 topg, 3p% .211, fg% .400, 26.4 mpg

In five more minutes per game and a much more prominent role on the team, Payton is hardly doing anything more than Smart.

Sounds like two good rookies to me. I like them both. Can't wait to see them grow. I like a few of the rookies from this season.

Why can none of you break down players.....it is either stats, or an excuse....that is all with you guys.

And even when I try to explain reasoning, it goes back to stats and excuses.

Why is it impossible for you to get over your Smart bias?

Honestly, I don't even know what you're arguing anymore. You change your argument's direction every time evidence is shown to disprove your argument.

You don't like Smart because he's been shooting alot of threes? Well, it's funny that you want to look at his small sample size in the NBA, but you neglect to look at two years of college evidence that doesn't support your argument. It seems obvious that Stevens is having these guys work on their shots, because wins don't mean anything this year. Geeeeezzzeeeeee.

LOL more excuses!

Nobody has yet to disprove my argument, because nobody will admit anything in here. It is all excuses.


I've done nothing but tell you the truth.

Smart shoots three pointers not because the coach tells him too, its because he cannot drive or finish, he does not have the best athleticism......hes a hustle player, but everytime he even tries to the hold the ball ends up in the 4th row stands.

Again, so 2 1/2 months overrules 2 years of evidence?

Get out of here, you're ridiculous. All you're doing is saying others are making excuses while not providing any sort of evidence or argumentation to your point, whatever that might happen to be at this particular point.

[greg683x]

did this thread really make it to 13 pages?

[Nerf DPOY]

did this thread really make it to 13 pages?

LOL more excuses!

[piercetruth34]

I think Smart is playing pretty unselfish right now.  Common sense out the window anyways.  It's  not that Payton isn't a good player but Smart is really just trying to fit in and the Celtics are being patient with him.   Totally different situations.  Orlando historically has just let your players play and fill the stat sheet.  The Celtics I think are doing a bit of both.  They aren't telling Smart to just go out there and fill it up but they are also bringing him along and playing him minutes.

I don't think it has anything to do with excuses.  I'm more than comfortable with Smart on this team long term.  He's a rookie.  Silly arguments in general.

Smart has shown in glimpses the type of player he is anyways. He's a tough guy. 

[celtics2030]

2014-2015 Stats:

Smart: 6.5 ppg, 2.8 apg, 2.3 rpg, 1.1 spg, 1.3 topg, 3p% .349, fg% .394, 21.4 mpg

Payton: 7.0 ppg, 5.3 apg, 3.6 rpg, 1.4 spg, 2.3 topg, 3p% .211, fg% .400, 26.4 mpg

In five more minutes per game and a much more prominent role on the team, Payton is hardly doing anything more than Smart.

Sounds like two good rookies to me. I like them both. Can't wait to see them grow. I like a few of the rookies from this season.

Why can none of you break down players.....it is either stats, or an excuse....that is all with you guys.

And even when I try to explain reasoning, it goes back to stats and excuses.

Why is it impossible for you to get over your Smart bias?

Honestly, I don't even know what you're arguing anymore. You change your argument's direction every time evidence is shown to disprove your argument.

You don't like Smart because he's been shooting alot of threes? Well, it's funny that you want to look at his small sample size in the NBA, but you neglect to look at two years of college evidence that doesn't support your argument. It seems obvious that Stevens is having these guys work on their shots, because wins don't mean anything this year. Geeeeezzzeeeeee.

LOL more excuses!

Nobody has yet to disprove my argument, because nobody will admit anything in here. It is all excuses.


I've done nothing but tell you the truth.

Smart shoots three pointers not because the coach tells him too, its because he cannot drive or finish, he does not have the best athleticism......hes a hustle player, but everytime he even tries to the hold the ball ends up in the 4th row stands.

Again, so 2 1/2 months overrules 2 years of evidence?

Get out of here, you're ridiculous. All you're doing is saying others are making excuses while not providing any sort of evidence or argumentation to your point, whatever that might happen to be at this particular point.

2 years of evidence?

how many years of evidence did Jimmer have? Did NBA scouts think he can do it? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Its about seeing a player for what he is....

Elfrid can drive better, finish better, pass better, run the point better and he is equal or better in rebounding

What he cant do better is Shoot at the moment...

but shoot what? Three Pointers

You know what Ill take Payton if all Smart can do is shoot 3 pointers.


If I had to pick today, If any Scout had to pick today , Im betting all the money in the world they would pick Payton.

Does that mean that he will be better no, but right now Smart looks like a hustle player without the neccessary skillset to be  a starting point guard...

Elfrid already looks like a starting point guard with a need for shooting the ball better.

[jpotter33]

I think Smart is playing pretty unselfish right now.  Common sense out the window anyways.  It's  not that Payton isn't a good player but Smart is really just trying to fit in and the Celtics are being patient with him.   Totally different situations.  Orlando historically has just let your players play and fill the stat sheet.  The Celtics I think are doing a bit of both.  They aren't telling Smart to just go out there and fill it up but they are also bringing him along and playing him minutes.

I don't think it has anything to do with excuses.  I'm more than comfortable with Smart on this team long term.  He's a rookie.  Silly arguments in general.

Smart has shown in glimpses the type of player he is anyways. He's a tough guy.

Thank you, TP. The OP doesn't seem to realize that the two are in totally different contexts.

[BitterJim]

2014-2015 Stats:

Smart: 6.5 ppg, 2.8 apg, 2.3 rpg, 1.1 spg, 1.3 topg, 3p% .349, fg% .394, 21.4 mpg

Payton: 7.0 ppg, 5.3 apg, 3.6 rpg, 1.4 spg, 2.3 topg, 3p% .211, fg% .400, 26.4 mpg

In five more minutes per game and a much more prominent role on the team, Payton is hardly doing anything more than Smart.

Forget it, it is impossible to register to you.

Pot, meet kettle

[jpotter33]

2014-2015 Stats:

Smart: 6.5 ppg, 2.8 apg, 2.3 rpg, 1.1 spg, 1.3 topg, 3p% .349, fg% .394, 21.4 mpg

Payton: 7.0 ppg, 5.3 apg, 3.6 rpg, 1.4 spg, 2.3 topg, 3p% .211, fg% .400, 26.4 mpg

In five more minutes per game and a much more prominent role on the team, Payton is hardly doing anything more than Smart.

Sounds like two good rookies to me. I like them both. Can't wait to see them grow. I like a few of the rookies from this season.

Why can none of you break down players.....it is either stats, or an excuse....that is all with you guys.

And even when I try to explain reasoning, it goes back to stats and excuses.

Why is it impossible for you to get over your Smart bias?

Honestly, I don't even know what you're arguing anymore. You change your argument's direction every time evidence is shown to disprove your argument.

You don't like Smart because he's been shooting alot of threes? Well, it's funny that you want to look at his small sample size in the NBA, but you neglect to look at two years of college evidence that doesn't support your argument. It seems obvious that Stevens is having these guys work on their shots, because wins don't mean anything this year. Geeeeezzzeeeeee.

LOL more excuses!

Nobody has yet to disprove my argument, because nobody will admit anything in here. It is all excuses.


I've done nothing but tell you the truth.

Smart shoots three pointers not because the coach tells him too, its because he cannot drive or finish, he does not have the best athleticism......hes a hustle player, but everytime he even tries to the hold the ball ends up in the 4th row stands.

Again, so 2 1/2 months overrules 2 years of evidence?

Get out of here, you're ridiculous. All you're doing is saying others are making excuses while not providing any sort of evidence or argumentation to your point, whatever that might happen to be at this particular point.

2 years of evidence?

how many years of evidence did Jimmer have? Did NBA scouts think he can do it? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Its about seeing a player for what he is....

Elfrid can drive better, finish better, pass better, run the point better and he is equal or better in rebounding

What he cant do better is Shoot at the moment...

but shoot what? Three Pointers

You know what Ill take Payton if all Smart can do is shoot 3 pointers.


If I had to pick today, If any Scout had to pick today , Im betting all the money in the world they would pick Payton.

Does that mean that he will be better no, but right now Smart looks like a hustle player without the neccessary skillset to be  a starting point guard...

Elfrid already looks like a starting point guard with a need for shooting the ball better.

Context, bro, context...

But I do find it hilarious that you think Smart just looks like a hustle player without the necessary skillset to be a starting point guard.

[piercetruth34]

I think Smart is playing pretty unselfish right now.  Common sense out the window anyways.  It's  not that Payton isn't a good player but Smart is really just trying to fit in and the Celtics are being patient with him.   Totally different situations.  Orlando historically has just let your players play and fill the stat sheet.  The Celtics I think are doing a bit of both.  They aren't telling Smart to just go out there and fill it up but they are also bringing him along and playing him minutes.

I don't think it has anything to do with excuses.  I'm more than comfortable with Smart on this team long term.  He's a rookie.  Silly arguments in general.

Smart has shown in glimpses the type of player he is anyways. He's a tough guy.

Thank you, TP. The OP doesn't seem to realize that the two are in totally different contexts.

That's what we want.  I don't think you just scrap that and go some other direction without some reason.

Do we want stat stuffers or are we trying to build a team here anyways?  I'm not worried about it.  DA knows what he is doing.

Smart ultimately is going to be a guy who goes with other star players anyways and fits what we want imo.  I don't think we want a stat stuffer at that position anyways.  If Smart does the little things and brings scoring ultimately that's what we want.

[celtics2030]

I think Smart is playing pretty unselfish right now.  Common sense out the window anyways.  It's  not that Payton isn't a good player but Smart is really just trying to fit in and the Celtics are being patient with him.   Totally different situations.  Orlando historically has just let your players play and fill the stat sheet.  The Celtics I think are doing a bit of both.  They aren't telling Smart to just go out there and fill it up but they are also bringing him along and playing him minutes.

I don't think it has anything to do with excuses.  I'm more than comfortable with Smart on this team long term.  He's a rookie.  Silly arguments in general.

Smart has shown in glimpses the type of player he is anyways. He's a tough guy.  That's what we want.  I don't think you just scrap that and go some other direction without some reason.

I think Smart is trying to do something he is not accustomed to ..being a point guard.....I do not think he is NBA point guard material....

He can do other things well, and your right the Celtics seem to be holding him back just a little bit..maybe teaching him, that he needs to become a pass first guy , and let his offense come later...whatever that is fine.

But Just watch these guys

Elfrid is already the real deal in terms of Point Guard, he has the size ahtleticism, he can drive to the rim, he has a floater, he can pass, 12 assists with 22 points is great..

I like Smart as a player, hes good, and the reality does seem true that hes not just allowed to be just a player and learn out there like Payton is......

But besides all of this, just watch the players, forget the shots that go in, forget the turnovers...

who cares if Elfrid scores 50, and Smart scores 10
 
Its not about that, its about what they can do, the skillset, the IQ,

Im not saying that Smart does not have that, but it just seems like Elfrid is so [dang] good already




Think about this


If Elfrid has this game tonight and was on the Celtics, no doubt CB would be giving him a 7 year deal and calling him the future

and if Smart continues to do what he does, everyone would be raving about how the Celtics picked up Elfrid before Smart and how great of a pick it was...

And partly it would be true, but not because of the big games........to people like me its because of what his skillset has shown.

[celtics2030]

2014-2015 Stats:

Smart: 6.5 ppg, 2.8 apg, 2.3 rpg, 1.1 spg, 1.3 topg, 3p% .349, fg% .394, 21.4 mpg

Payton: 7.0 ppg, 5.3 apg, 3.6 rpg, 1.4 spg, 2.3 topg, 3p% .211, fg% .400, 26.4 mpg

In five more minutes per game and a much more prominent role on the team, Payton is hardly doing anything more than Smart.

Sounds like two good rookies to me. I like them both. Can't wait to see them grow. I like a few of the rookies from this season.

Why can none of you break down players.....it is either stats, or an excuse....that is all with you guys.

And even when I try to explain reasoning, it goes back to stats and excuses.

Why is it impossible for you to get over your Smart bias?

Honestly, I don't even know what you're arguing anymore. You change your argument's direction every time evidence is shown to disprove your argument.

You don't like Smart because he's been shooting alot of threes? Well, it's funny that you want to look at his small sample size in the NBA, but you neglect to look at two years of college evidence that doesn't support your argument. It seems obvious that Stevens is having these guys work on their shots, because wins don't mean anything this year. Geeeeezzzeeeeee.

LOL more excuses!

Nobody has yet to disprove my argument, because nobody will admit anything in here. It is all excuses.


I've done nothing but tell you the truth.

Smart shoots three pointers not because the coach tells him too, its because he cannot drive or finish, he does not have the best athleticism......hes a hustle player, but everytime he even tries to the hold the ball ends up in the 4th row stands.

Again, so 2 1/2 months overrules 2 years of evidence?

Get out of here, you're ridiculous. All you're doing is saying others are making excuses while not providing any sort of evidence or argumentation to your point, whatever that might happen to be at this particular point.

2 years of evidence?

how many years of evidence did Jimmer have? Did NBA scouts think he can do it? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Its about seeing a player for what he is....

Elfrid can drive better, finish better, pass better, run the point better and he is equal or better in rebounding

What he cant do better is Shoot at the moment...

but shoot what? Three Pointers

You know what Ill take Payton if all Smart can do is shoot 3 pointers.


If I had to pick today, If any Scout had to pick today , Im betting all the money in the world they would pick Payton.

Does that mean that he will be better no, but right now Smart looks like a hustle player without the neccessary skillset to be  a starting point guard...

Elfrid already looks like a starting point guard with a need for shooting the ball better.

Context, bro, context...

But I do find it hilarious that you think Smart just looks like a hustle player without the necessary skillset to be a starting point guard.

STARTING point guard. I don't think he has that, at least not yet. As I have stated.

and again , its an opinion.

[celtics2030]

I think Smart is playing pretty unselfish right now.  Common sense out the window anyways.  It's  not that Payton isn't a good player but Smart is really just trying to fit in and the Celtics are being patient with him.   Totally different situations.  Orlando historically has just let your players play and fill the stat sheet.  The Celtics I think are doing a bit of both.  They aren't telling Smart to just go out there and fill it up but they are also bringing him along and playing him minutes.

I don't think it has anything to do with excuses.  I'm more than comfortable with Smart on this team long term.  He's a rookie.  Silly arguments in general.

Smart has shown in glimpses the type of player he is anyways. He's a tough guy.

Thank you, TP. The OP doesn't seem to realize that the two are in totally different contexts.

That's what we want.  I don't think you just scrap that and go some other direction without some reason.

Do we want stat stuffers or are we trying to build a team here anyways?  I'm not worried about it.  DA knows what he is doing.

Smart ultimately is going to be a guy who goes with other star players anyways and fits what we want imo.  I don't think we want a stat stuffer at that position anyways.  If Smart does the little things and brings scoring ultimately that's what we want.

See , it just keeps going out of peoples heads.

Hopefully your not referring to stats as being the end all.

I keep trying to tell everybody its not about stats, its about what skill they have.