CB Draft Finals: Q&A, Video, and Trash Talk Thread!

[Donoghus]

Just think that the thinking that Lebron is going to have enough offense is seriously flawed and has been the whole playoffs.

Last year this board was under the impression that a team of

LeBron
Marc Gasol
Anderson Varejao
Jason Richardson
Aaron Afflalo
Kirk Hinrich
Ty Lawson
Jeff Foster
Joel Anthony
Trenton Hassell

and others wasn't good enough to get out of the second round of the playoffs.

That team got bounced by this team in the playoffs.  

Philadelphia 76ers (kwhit10)- Carmelo Anthony, Andrew Bynum, Baron Davis, Emeka Okafor, Ronnie Brewer, Anthony Parker, Renaldo Balkman, Janerro Pargo, Steve Novak, Joe Smith, Lindsey Hunter, Francisco Elson, Joey Graham, Will Solomon, Tim Thomas,

That's a very solid squad even a year later and I'm not surprised that Lebron team lost.

That's a 6-man roster for Philly. A travesty.

I bet that team still finishes at least Top 4 in this year's draft.   They were Eastern Conference runner-up last year.

[Roy H.]

Just think that the thinking that Lebron is going to have enough offense is seriously flawed and has been the whole playoffs.

Last year this board was under the impression that a team of

LeBron
Marc Gasol
Anderson Varejao
Jason Richardson
Aaron Afflalo
Kirk Hinrich
Ty Lawson
Jeff Foster
Joel Anthony
Trenton Hassell

and others wasn't good enough to get out of the second round of the playoffs.

That team got bounced by this team in the playoffs.  

Philadelphia 76ers (kwhit10)- Carmelo Anthony, Andrew Bynum, Baron Davis, Emeka Okafor, Ronnie Brewer, Anthony Parker, Renaldo Balkman, Janerro Pargo, Steve Novak, Joe Smith, Lindsey Hunter, Francisco Elson, Joey Graham, Will Solomon, Tim Thomas,

That's a very solid squad even a year later and I'm not surprised that Lebron team lost.

That's a 6-man roster for Philly. A travesty.

Maybe 7, counting Graham and Elson as half-players each.

By the 2010 standard, a 7-player team makes you deep.

[indeedproceed]

Just think that the thinking that Lebron is going to have enough offense is seriously flawed and has been the whole playoffs.

Last year this board was under the impression that a team of

LeBron
Marc Gasol
Anderson Varejao
Jason Richardson
Aaron Afflalo
Kirk Hinrich
Ty Lawson
Jeff Foster
Joel Anthony
Trenton Hassell

and others wasn't good enough to get out of the second round of the playoffs.

This year, a year in which LeBron QUIT on his team in the playoffs and was knocked out of the playoffs one round earlier, in the CB Draft he is on a team surrounded by a seriously worse collection of players going up against a team that kind of mirrors the 2008-09 Magic and people are considering voting Chicago through to the championship simply because of Lebron not being able to be stopped?!?!?!

Maybe it's me but that makes zero sense.

Start Orien better hope for a large turnout like last year's voting otherwise the lower the vote total the better chance Chicago has of pulling this off.

Breaking news: Nick doesn't like Chicago...other breaking news: Sun rises in East. Setting in West is a possibility. Will continue to post updates.

I just wish Nick was as consistent with all his views as he is in putting down my team.

Question for nickagneta:

but otherwise, if you are using them (rookies) as rotational players on a team that you believe is contending now, I'm holding that against your team and writing in their contributions as non significant.

Are you expecting Dwight Howard and Antawn Jamison to play the entire game?

[Roy H.]

I just wish Nick was as consistent with all his views as he is in putting down my team.

Question for nickagneta:

but otherwise, if you are using them (rookies) as rotational players on a team that you believe is contending now, I'm holding that against your team and writing in their contributions as non significant.

Are you expecting Dwight Howard and Antawn Jamison to play the entire game?

Based upon the vote for Phoenix over Sacramento, I'm assuming nick granted Phoenix a special exemption where they get to play with six players at the same time, with three of them defending the post.

[indeedproceed]

By the 2010 standard, a 7-player team makes you deep.

2010 Celtics Finals Rotation, 9 Players Deep
1-5: Rondo, Ray, Paul, KG, KP
6: Sheed
7: Baby
8: Tony
9: Nate-Rob

2011 Bulls Finals Rotation: 9 Deep

1-5: Jennings, Miller, James, Ilyasova, Noah
6: Louis Amundson
7: Tony Allen
8: Eric Maynor
9: Michael Redd or Von Wafer, whichever one you think is better

Still 9 deep. Not as good as the Celtics, but that's my 9 man rotation. Aside from Ilyasova everyone has played in the playoffsand in the role they're in on my team. I can't afford any injuries to any starters, but frankly, who can?

Nick hasn't liked my team since day 1, but that doesn't mean he's right, or that my team doesn't deserve to be here.

And, who cares what happened last season in the draft?? That was last season. Clearly GM's are better, and the snake draft screwed the depth for teams at the top.

[The Walker Wiggle]

How is that Orlando team better than mine?

Davis > Alston
Lee = Matthews
Turkoglu
Jamison < Lewis
Howard

Salmons > Pietrus, Davis/Monroe = Gortat/Battie, Fernandez & Terrence Williams > Anthony Johnson

I think Turkoglu has declined a lot, and while B. Diddy in general is better than Alston, Alston had some big games in that playoff run and is a better outside shooter.  Gortat is a better defensive player than anybody you have on your bench, and I like the Pietrus/Reddick off the bench more than your guys.

Most importantly, though, the '09 Orlando team had a better team defense and better shooting.  Individual talents don't matter as much compared to the team as a whole.

Not sure which way I'm leaning, as I read back, but I have to say I'd agree with StartOrien and like Phoenix better than the 2009 Magic. I'm not sure that Alston's shooting "advantage" is much worth mentioning when he's a career 38% shooter from the floor who made 32% of his three point attempts for Orlando that postseason. Davis is bigger and quicker, better at the rim, the better defender and rebounder, and in this rare instance the more disciplined player.

I'm also of the opinion that Gortat has become over-rated, he's very good defensively for a reserve and an aggressive finisher. But I'll still take Monroe (already the better scorer and passer) and Davis (who could develop into Gorat's equal on defense).

I also prefer Jamison - who after a dismal playoff showing against Garnett, has swung from being overrated to underrated - to Lewis.

None of which helps me much in figuring out if I prefer Phoenix to Chicago...

[Roy H.]

By the 2010 standard, a 7-player team makes you deep.

2010 Celtics Finals Rotation, 9 Players Deep
1-5: Rondo, Ray, Paul, KG, KP
6: Sheed
7: Baby
8: Tony
9: Nate-Rob

2011 Bulls Finals Rotation: 9 Deep

1-5: Jennings, Miller, James, Ilyasova, Noah
6: Louis Amundson
7: Tony Allen
8: Eric Maynor
9: Michael Redd or Von Wafer, whichever one you think is better

Still 9 deep. Not as good as the Celtics, but that's my 9 man rotation. Aside from Ilyasova everyone has played in the playoffsand in the role they're in on my team. I can't afford any injuries to any starters, but frankly, who can?

Nick hasn't liked my team since day 1, but that doesn't mean he's right, or that my team doesn't deserve to be here.

And, who cares what happened last season in the draft?? That was last season. Clearly GM's are better, and the snake draft screwed the depth for teams at the top.

Your 6th man averaged 3 points and 3 rebounds in the playoffs, IP.  Your backup PG averaged 4 points and 1.5 assists in the playoffs.  Von Wafer was out of the league, and Michael Redd was out for the season.  Tony Allen was your best bench player, and his playoff averages were 5 points and 2 rebounds.

I can buy a lot of things, but I can't accept that Chicago has legit depth.

[Lucky17]

Just think that the thinking that Lebron is going to have enough offense is seriously flawed and has been the whole playoffs.

Last year this board was under the impression that a team of

LeBron
Marc Gasol
Anderson Varejao
Jason Richardson
Aaron Afflalo
Kirk Hinrich
Ty Lawson
Jeff Foster
Joel Anthony
Trenton Hassell

and others wasn't good enough to get out of the second round of the playoffs.

That team got bounced by this team in the playoffs.  

Philadelphia 76ers (kwhit10)- Carmelo Anthony, Andrew Bynum, Baron Davis, Emeka Okafor, Ronnie Brewer, Anthony Parker, Renaldo Balkman, Janerro Pargo, Steve Novak, Joe Smith, Lindsey Hunter, Francisco Elson, Joey Graham, Will Solomon, Tim Thomas,

That's a very solid squad even a year later and I'm not surprised that Lebron team lost.

That's a 6-man roster for Philly. A travesty.

Maybe 7, counting Graham and Elson as half-players each.

By the 2010 standard, a 7-player team makes you deep.

Then last year's Lebronettes were hella-deep, with 8 rotation-worthy players.

Bynum dragged that leg around for the majority of last season, Brewer blew out a hamstring in the last quarter of the season, and Okafor stank in NO last season.

Best player in the league, plus an ascendant Gasol, a lethal 3 point shooter in J-Rich (11th most made last year), tenacious D from Varejao and Afflalo, steady PG rotation: last year's Lebronettes got a raw deal.

[Why, yes, I am living in the past, thank you for asking.]

[nickagneta]

I just wish Nick was as consistent with all his views as he is in putting down my team.

Question for nickagneta:

but otherwise, if you are using them (rookies) as rotational players on a team that you believe is contending now, I'm holding that against your team and writing in their contributions as non significant.

Are you expecting Dwight Howard and Antawn Jamison to play the entire game?

Based upon the vote for Phoenix over Sacramento, I'm assuming nick granted Phoenix a special exemption where they get to play with six players at the same time, with three of them defending the post.

Roy, Dwight Howard is the best center in the game. Your team had a bench playing, 35 years old center and 6 other much smaller power forwards guarding him. He would have eaten your front court up and spit them out in that series. And, apparently, a bunch of other people felt the same way.

[indeedproceed]

Man this post is bothering me.

This year, a year in which LeBron QUIT on his team in the playoffs and was knocked out of the playoffs one round earlier, in the CB Draft he is on a team surrounded by a seriously worse collection of players going up against a team that kind of mirrors the 2008-09 Magic and people are considering voting Chicago through to the championship simply because of Lebron not being able to be stopped?!?!?!

Maybe it's me but that makes zero sense.

If my team, with a better post defender than Cleveland had in 08-09 (Joakim Noah over Varejao or Big Z), better shooting guard (Mike Miller over Delonte West), and a comparable of not better PG (Brandon Jennings over Mo Williams, but people seem to disagree about that), how is my team not better?

Because Cleveland had depth? They didn't have the talent.

I got them the defensive minded, rebounding stretch 4 they needed in Ilyasova, I got a better post defender in Joakim Noah, and off of my bench Tony Allen is better than anyone that was coming off of Cleveland's.

Maybe Ben Wallace over Amundson, but I'd disagree about that too. Ben Wallace got abused that year in the playoffs.

Then, Phoenix has no defensive player outside of Dwight Howard, they have inferior players at the 4 and a worse version of Turk at the 3, and a point guard who has as many if not more questions about his performance than my own PG Brandon Jennings.

How are they a 'mirror' of 09 Orlando, but I'm chopped liver?

Start Orien better hope for a large turnout like last year's voting otherwise the lower the vote total the better chance Chicago has of pulling this off.

I would like to really go off about this statement but I'm outta energy. The word I keep coming back to is 'disappointed'.

[The Walker Wiggle]

I don't mean to talk Jamison down at all, I think this is the series that we can really capitolize on his abilities. I actually meant to emphasize him in my argument. And apparently should do more of.

As far as Hedo goes,

I don't mean to keep harping him on the 4, it's really just meant to present another look for our offense. And another way IP has to strategize.

Also, his per 36 numbers don't really backup that he's "lost a step." He was 3 points below the year before, on 3 less shots per game and shot .004 worse from the field. His assists and rebounds were the same they were the year before. To me, this suggests more that he was in a bad situation as opposed to him losing a step.

He can't effectively defend most 4s in the league.  To me, I don't really care about the offensive numbers.  He's a pretty severeliability on defense at the 4, IMO.

Is Hedo a worse defender at the four than Jamison?

I don't think so.

Edit: Also, I fully agree with StartOrien, Turkoglu didn't decline and he didn't lose a step last season. He was in a bad situation and played on a team that didn't utilize his skill-set. Hedo is a system dependent player.

At this point I can say that after much resistance I now support Hedo at the 4. He's already easily handled Al Horford and mitigated Carlos Boozer enough to get the Gorillas to Finals. By comparison neither Ilyasova nor Amundson are in a position to take advantage of him.

How does Davis versus Jennings play out? If that's been discussed somebody please point me in the right direction. I'm most undecided at the 1.

[nickagneta]

Just think that the thinking that Lebron is going to have enough offense is seriously flawed and has been the whole playoffs.

Last year this board was under the impression that a team of

LeBron
Marc Gasol
Anderson Varejao
Jason Richardson
Aaron Afflalo
Kirk Hinrich
Ty Lawson
Jeff Foster
Joel Anthony
Trenton Hassell

and others wasn't good enough to get out of the second round of the playoffs.

This year, a year in which LeBron QUIT on his team in the playoffs and was knocked out of the playoffs one round earlier, in the CB Draft he is on a team surrounded by a seriously worse collection of players going up against a team that kind of mirrors the 2008-09 Magic and people are considering voting Chicago through to the championship simply because of Lebron not being able to be stopped?!?!?!

Maybe it's me but that makes zero sense.

Start Orien better hope for a large turnout like last year's voting otherwise the lower the vote total the better chance Chicago has of pulling this off.

Breaking news: Nick doesn't like Chicago...other breaking news: Sun rises in East. Setting in West is a possibility. Will continue to post updates.

I just wish Nick was as consistent with all his views as he is in putting down my team.

Question for nickagneta:

but otherwise, if you are using them (rookies) as rotational players on a team that you believe is contending now, I'm holding that against your team and writing in their contributions as non significant.

Are you expecting Dwight Howard and Antawn Jamison to play the entire game?

Where exactly am I being inconsistent? I agree Phoenix has little depth because of the rookies who's contributions I discounted as much as I did your rookies. To me, they ALL are non factors. But Howard could give him 42 MPG for a series and render the 3 minutes per half he is out, probably around the quarter breaks as minimal by going with an ultra small lineup during that time.

It's not like when Howard is out of the game you're running Shaq, or Gortat or someone even remotely good offensively out on to the court in the front court. I mean, you're running out the 11th most foul prone player in the league to be guarding small and presumably quicker players. During the 3 minutes per half Howard is out of the game each half it's not like Chicago is suddenly going on huge long scoring streaks, because their offense outside Lebron is awful.

And yes, I don't like you're team. I told you that honestly in a PM when you wanted me to admit that your team was better than mine. I will repeat now what I said then. I have always been about team oriented teams beating one star teams. I don't believe in the one superstar team building concept. And, unfortunately you were lucky enough to get two stars and traded one away leaving the Bulls as a team that other than Lebron, is pretty terrible, IMO.

I think the Bulls were the 4th best team in the East. I think they would have finished third because people will look at the Lebron cache and overlook a look of bad on that team because of it. And given it's the playoffs, I'll always go with the vets outplaying the youngsters.

Phoenix has the better team surrounding their superstar, they have more veterans and experience surrounding their superstar, and they have both a good defensive and offensive team with balance.

They are simply the better team. Lebron wins two games, the better team wins four.

[Roy H.]

At this point I can say that after much resistance I now support Hedo at the 4. He's already easily handled Al Horford and mitigated Carlos Boozer enough to get the Gorillas to Finals. By comparison neither Ilyasova nor Amundson are in a position to take advantage of him.

I agree with the last statement (except I expect that Ilyasova would exploit Hedo in terms of rebounding).  However, I get the feeling that Phoenix advanced in spite of Hedo at the 4, not because of him.

[nickagneta]

Man this post is bothering me.

This year, a year in which LeBron QUIT on his team in the playoffs and was knocked out of the playoffs one round earlier, in the CB Draft he is on a team surrounded by a seriously worse collection of players going up against a team that kind of mirrors the 2008-09 Magic and people are considering voting Chicago through to the championship simply because of Lebron not being able to be stopped?!?!?!

Maybe it's me but that makes zero sense.

If my team, with a better post defender than Cleveland had in 08-09 (Joakim Noah over Varejao or Big Z), better shooting guard (Mike Miller over Delonte West), and a comparable of not better PG (Brandon Jennings over Mo Williams, but people seem to disagree about that), how is my team not better?

here's the thing, I agree with none of this. Zero. And there lies our difference.

[Roy H.]

Uh oh, Dwight gave Lebron some bulletin board material:

Dwight Howard was asked during a radio interview which player he thought was better between Kevin Durant and LeBron James.

"I'm gonna go with Kevin," Howard said.


http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/69216/20100922/dwight_howard_believes_durant_is_better_than_lebron/#ixzz10IiYlwhD