CB Draft Finals: Q&A, Video, and Trash Talk Thread!

[Fafnir]

I have a feeling that if Chicago defends Howard with Noah one on one, Joakim will find on the bench quite often and Chicago will be forced to go to their bench.

I'm just not seeing how Chicago can hang if they don't double-team Howard.

It depends how well Noah can stay with the game plan. If he doesn't foul to avoid a few easy dunks they could.

I mean Howard isn't going to pick you apart in the post even if you let him go off. He doesn't have that sort of game.

[Donoghus]

I don't mean to talk Jamison down at all, I think this is the series that we can really capitolize on his abilities. I actually meant to emphasize him in my argument. And apparently should do more of.

As far as Hedo goes,

I don't mean to keep harping him on the 4, it's really just meant to present another look for our offense. And another way IP has to strategize.

Also, his per 36 numbers don't really backup that he's "lost a step." He was 3 points below the year before, on 3 less shots per game and shot .004 worse from the field. His assists and rebounds were the same they were the year before. To me, this suggests more that he was in a bad situation as opposed to him losing a step.

He can't effectively defend most 4s in the league.  To me, I don't really care about the offensive numbers.  He's a pretty severeliability on defense at the 4, IMO.

[Who]

I don't mean to talk Jamison down at all, I think this is the series that we can really capitolize on his abilities. I actually meant to emphasize him in my argument. And apparently should do more of.

As far as Hedo goes,

I don't mean to keep harping him on the 4, it's really just meant to present another look for our offense. And another way IP has to strategize.

Also, his per 36 numbers don't really backup that he's "lost a step." He was 3 points below the year before, on 3 less shots per game and shot .004 worse from the field. His assists and rebounds were the same they were the year before. To me, this suggests more that he was in a bad situation as opposed to him losing a step.

He can't effectively defend most 4s in the league.  To me, I don't really care about the offensive numbers.  He's a pretty severeliability on defense at the 4, IMO.

Is Hedo a worse defender at the four than Jamison?

I don't think so.

Edit: Also, I fully agree with StartOrien, Turkoglu didn't decline and he didn't lose a step last season. He was in a bad situation and played on a team that didn't utilize his skill-set. Hedo is a system dependent player.

[StartOrien]

As far as Antawn goes, he's still a heckuva player and he gets badmouthed on this site because he ran into Kevin Garnett.

In the series before against the Joakim Noah led Bulls, Antawn Jamison averaged:

19.4 points per game on 50% shooting and 7 rebounds per game. These numbers are on par with his career averages.
These numbers dont' suggeset a player who has "lost it" but one who was overmatched by one of the games' greatest all time defenders.

[Donoghus]

I don't mean to talk Jamison down at all, I think this is the series that we can really capitolize on his abilities. I actually meant to emphasize him in my argument. And apparently should do more of.

As far as Hedo goes,

I don't mean to keep harping him on the 4, it's really just meant to present another look for our offense. And another way IP has to strategize.

Also, his per 36 numbers don't really backup that he's "lost a step." He was 3 points below the year before, on 3 less shots per game and shot .004 worse from the field. His assists and rebounds were the same they were the year before. To me, this suggests more that he was in a bad situation as opposed to him losing a step.

He can't effectively defend most 4s in the league.  To me, I don't really care about the offensive numbers.  He's a pretty severeliability on defense at the 4, IMO.

Is Hedo a worse defender at the four than Jamison?

I don't think so.

I never said I was enamored with Jamison, either. I just think the idea of throwing Hedo out there against the Boozers and Gasols of the world is more suicide than offensive mismatch.  And those are only two PFs off the top of my head.  There's quite a few that Hedo would have his struggles with.

I did mention that I do think this is one of the few matchups you can get away with plugging Hedo at the 4.

[Roy H.]

I don't mean to talk Jamison down at all, I think this is the series that we can really capitolize on his abilities. I actually meant to emphasize him in my argument. And apparently should do more of.

As far as Hedo goes,

I don't mean to keep harping him on the 4, it's really just meant to present another look for our offense. And another way IP has to strategize.

Also, his per 36 numbers don't really backup that he's "lost a step." He was 3 points below the year before, on 3 less shots per game and shot .004 worse from the field. His assists and rebounds were the same they were the year before. To me, this suggests more that he was in a bad situation as opposed to him losing a step.

He can't effectively defend most 4s in the league.  To me, I don't really care about the offensive numbers.  He's a pretty severeliability on defense at the 4, IMO.

Is Hedo a worse defender at the four than Jamison?

I don't think so.

I do.  Again, if he wasn't, teams would play him there.  Every time Hedo has played at the 4 over the last 4 or 5 seasons, his individual opponents have out-produced him by wide margins.

I really, truly believe that StartOrien shoots himself in the foot with this "Hedo can play the 4" argument.  No, he can't.  Again, if he could, he would.  He doesn't, because he can't.

[Fafnir]

I don't mean to talk Jamison down at all, I think this is the series that we can really capitolize on his abilities. I actually meant to emphasize him in my argument. And apparently should do more of.

As far as Hedo goes,

I don't mean to keep harping him on the 4, it's really just meant to present another look for our offense. And another way IP has to strategize.

Also, his per 36 numbers don't really backup that he's "lost a step." He was 3 points below the year before, on 3 less shots per game and shot .004 worse from the field. His assists and rebounds were the same they were the year before. To me, this suggests more that he was in a bad situation as opposed to him losing a step.

He can't effectively defend most 4s in the league.  To me, I don't really care about the offensive numbers.  He's a pretty severeliability on defense at the 4, IMO.

Is Hedo a worse defender at the four than Jamison?

I don't think so.

Edit: Also, I fully agree with StartOrien, Turkoglu didn't decline and he didn't lose a step last season. He was in a bad situation and played on a team that didn't utilize his skill-set. Hedo is a system dependent player.

He's a much worse rebounder at the 4 position.

That's something to think about.

[StartOrien]

I don't mean to talk Jamison down at all, I think this is the series that we can really capitolize on his abilities. I actually meant to emphasize him in my argument. And apparently should do more of.

As far as Hedo goes,

I don't mean to keep harping him on the 4, it's really just meant to present another look for our offense. And another way IP has to strategize.

Also, his per 36 numbers don't really backup that he's "lost a step." He was 3 points below the year before, on 3 less shots per game and shot .004 worse from the field. His assists and rebounds were the same they were the year before. To me, this suggests more that he was in a bad situation as opposed to him losing a step.

He can't effectively defend most 4s in the league.  To me, I don't really care about the offensive numbers.  He's a pretty severeliability on defense at the 4, IMO.

Is Hedo a worse defender at the four than Jamison?

I don't think so.

I do. Which is why Jamison gets the lion's share of the minutes there. I don't think he's all that much worse, but Jamison is a much more capable defender IMO.

As far as not caring about the offense though, and only about the defense? Ilyasova is talented in that he can spread the floor, but his ability to exploit a "liability" defensively is limited.

Allright guys, back in an hour. I remind you that Hedo is only scheduled to play 10 minutes at PF right now.

[Who]

I don't mean to talk Jamison down at all, I think this is the series that we can really capitolize on his abilities. I actually meant to emphasize him in my argument. And apparently should do more of.

As far as Hedo goes,

I don't mean to keep harping him on the 4, it's really just meant to present another look for our offense. And another way IP has to strategize.

Also, his per 36 numbers don't really backup that he's "lost a step." He was 3 points below the year before, on 3 less shots per game and shot .004 worse from the field. His assists and rebounds were the same they were the year before. To me, this suggests more that he was in a bad situation as opposed to him losing a step.

He can't effectively defend most 4s in the league.  To me, I don't really care about the offensive numbers.  He's a pretty severeliability on defense at the 4, IMO.

Is Hedo a worse defender at the four than Jamison?

I don't think so.

Edit: Also, I fully agree with StartOrien, Turkoglu didn't decline and he didn't lose a step last season. He was in a bad situation and played on a team that didn't utilize his skill-set. Hedo is a system dependent player.

He's a much worse rebounder at the 4 position.

That's something to think about.

Yep, but is he a worse defender?

And then is he a better offensive player at the four?

Is that better offense worth more or less to you than Jamison's advantage on the boards in each specific matchup? Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't.

[Roy H.]

Yep, but is he a worse defender?

And then is he a better offensive player at the four?

Is that better offense worth more or less to you than Jamison's advantage on the boards in each specific matchup? Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't.

Jamison is a better defender than Hedo at the four.  

He's a significantly better rebounder, and he's a significantly better scorer.  Jamison can score in the post (consistently), but he also has outside range.  

I'm actually a little surprised that somebody would rate Hedo's PF offense as better than Jamison's.  I don't think it's that close.  Jamison is a proven post scorer, against bigger players.  What has Hedo done at the 4 to make you think he can score there consistently?  The one year he did see semi-significant minutes there (his first year in Orlando), he had an eFG% of .391 from the position.  That's horrific.

Hedo is a better ball-handler and passer than Jamison, but that doesn't make up for his lack of rebounding or post offense.  I mean, Francisco Garcia is a better ball-handler and passer than Jamison, too, but I wouldn't make him my power forward.

[indeedproceed]

IP's Special, "Why Hedo Doesn't Work Pour Vous" Argument:

Hedo Turkoglu is completely dependent on having the ball in his hands to make a positive impact on the offensive end. Do not believe me? Let me show you.

Here is a graph showing Hedo's lifetime Usage in relation to FG%:



That one shows one year, 2005-2006, when Hedo had a good FG% but a (relatively..but still high) usage of 19.0.

Here is the graph without the outlier:



Lastly here is a graph showing Hedo's PER in relation to Usage:



When Baron Davis, Antawn Jamison, and/or John Salmons are on the floor, Hedo Turkoglu won't get the touches to impact the game. When Hedo isn't a playmaker, he's not an impact player.

Even when he is a playmaker, he's still only a slightly above average player, but that's not the point. Unless Hedo only sees time with a backcourt of Fernandez/Matthews, he's going to be an invisible man, and a liability on defense against LeBron.

[indeedproceed]

Player X: 5.1 fouls Per 36 minutes when playing Dwight Howard
Player y: 5.5 fouls Per 36 minutes when playing Dwight Howard

Which one is Joakim Noah, which one is Kendrick Perkins?

[mgent]

No way either of these teams are Finals teams.

Didn't I call the two top seeds making it?

Leaning towards Phoenix.

[Donoghus]

Player X: 5.1 fouls Per 36 minutes when playing Dwight Howard
Player y: 5.5 fouls Per 36 minutes when playing Dwight Howard

Which one is Joakim Noah, which one is Kendrick Perkins?

What are the offensive numbers put up by Howard on each respective guy?

[Roy H.]

Player X: 5.1 fouls Per 36 minutes when playing Dwight Howard
Player y: 5.5 fouls Per 36 minutes when playing Dwight Howard

Which one is Joakim Noah, which one is Kendrick Perkins?

What do Perk's numbers look like post 2008, which is about the time he started coming into his own as a near-elite defender?