Celtics discussing a Jamison/Butler for Ray/Scal/JR trade according to Y!Sports

[sk7326]

i will stay skeptical - all the Celtics can offer is salary cap relief ... HOWEVER, as one of very few teams (Cavs, Mavs, Magic the others) who I think will not hesitate to take on money for the right cause, they are in a good position.

This is a great deal - I just wonder if the Wizards can do better ... or if they just want to start fresh in a John Wall or Evan Turner oriented America.

[Birdbrain]

Caron Butler has an eFG% of 41%, 42% and 43% on his jump shots for the last three years.

Point taken but Butler is a terrific defender. The one weak link in our starting five for defense will be replaced by a plus defender.

I disagree, I think he's a very poor man-to-man defender. He doesn't have the lateral quickness to stick with moderate athletes at the small forward position. Nevermind the two guard spot. His team defense is solid enough though.

Maybe I am overvaluing and maybe you are undervaluing. Can we agree that he is an upgrade over Ray?

The original point I was debating is that he couldn't shoot. He is a good scorer and his defense puts him over the top to me in comparison to Ray.

No, I disagree. I think Ray is still the better player between the two.

But that's not including Jamison who would make it an improvement (Butler + Jamison) over Ray.

Ray better than Butler at this stage of their careers?  You might be on the only on that life boat.

[Fafnir]

Caron Butler has an eFG% of 41%, 42% and 43% on his jump shots for the last three years.

Point taken but Butler is a terrific defender. The one weak link in our starting five for defense will be replaced by a plus defender.

I disagree, I think he's a very poor man-to-man defender. He doesn't have the lateral quickness to stick with moderate athletes at the small forward position. Nevermind the two guard spot. His team defense is solid enough though.

Maybe I am overvaluing and maybe you are undervaluing. Can we agree that he is an upgrade over Ray?

The original point I was debating is that he couldn't shoot. He is a good scorer and his defense puts him over the top to me in comparison to Ray.

No, I disagree. I think Ray is still the better player between the two.

But that's not including Jamison who would make it an improvement (Butler + Jamison) over Ray.

Ray better than Butler at this stage of their careers?  You might be on the only on that life boat.

Add in Wayne Winston and other people who look at adjusted +/-.

[Who]

No, I disagree. I think Ray is still the better player between the two.

But that's not including Jamison who would make it an improvement (Butler + Jamison) over Ray.

What? Two things puts him over the top. Age and defense. Caron is 5years younger than Ray. No need to discuss defense. It obvious Ray was the weak-link on defense. If this trade was to happen Ray will likely get bought out and shipped back to Boston.

I disagree on the defense and was only talking about current ability (why I discounted the age difference).

But if we include the age difference, then yes, Butler is the better player to have.

[xmuscularghandix]

What makes me really drool about this trade, is the fact that I imagine Ray would be bought out.

Yeah, there's no value for Washington in hanging onto Ray Allen.

Better to buy him out = save a few dollars + open up more playing time for prospects like Nick Young + lose more games and win a higher draft pick

An old timer like Ray has no future at that club and that team isn't playing for anything in the present tense. No point in keeping him.

Boston would be the favourites to sign Ray Allen once he's a free agent. Very good chance of that happening should this trade go through.

Do you think Ray would want to come back here and take part in our stockpile of 30+ year old role players?

I guess that next year he'd be taking a backseat role anyways... so what difference does it make if it starts this year instead. Plus those championship rings look nice

Don't go crazy but i'm going to drool for a little as well.

Rondo   Daniels  
Butler     House   TA
Pierce     RA          Scal      Walker
Garnett   Jamison Davis   Williams
Perkins   Wallace

[wdleehi]

Caron Butler has an eFG% of 41%, 42% and 43% on his jump shots for the last three years.

Cool on this team he'll be getting a boat load more layups.

I think it matters in the starting lineup but once Jamison or Rasheed come in for Perkins ... it's not a big deal at all.

The Celtics can just post up Butler or Pierce against whoever has the smaller defender. That would be very effective for Boston + very difficult for opposing teams to handle.

What makes me really drool about this trade, is the fact that I imagine Ray would be bought out.

Trading Ray Allen's Bird Rights, Scal + Giddens and two first round picks for Butler/Jamison?

Yes please.

If Boston somehow got Ray back the rest of the league would go crazy.  Someone posted about this previously with regard to Danny and Ray's heart to heart last week.  Collusion ...

Who cares?  No one on this site.



That would just be the cherry on top.  Scali being bought out and returning would be the sprinkles.  

[jdpapa3]

Hypothetical question: if they added in Haywood and required Perkins do you still do this? Would it screw up chemistry TOO much? I don't see what makes our offer much better than any of the other offers out there.

[xmuscularghandix]

Caron Butler has an eFG% of 41%, 42% and 43% on his jump shots for the last three years.

Cool on this team he'll be getting a boat load more layups.

I think it matters in the starting lineup but once Jamison or Rasheed come in for Perkins ... it's not a big deal at all.

The Celtics can just post up Butler or Pierce against whoever has the smaller defender. That would be very effective for Boston + very difficult for opposing teams to handle.

What makes me really drool about this trade, is the fact that I imagine Ray would be bought out.

Trading Ray Allen's Bird Rights, Scal + Giddens and two first round picks for Butler/Jamison?

Yes please.

If Boston somehow got Ray back the rest of the league would go crazy.  Someone posted about this previously with regard to Danny and Ray's heart to heart last week.  Collusion ...

Who cares?  No one on this site.



That would just be the cherry on top.  Scali being bought out and returning would be the sprinkles.  

More like hot fudge.

[Who]

What makes me really drool about this trade, is the fact that I imagine Ray would be bought out.

Yeah, there's no value for Washington in hanging onto Ray Allen.

Better to buy him out = save a few dollars + open up more playing time for prospects like Nick Young + lose more games and win a higher draft pick

An old timer like Ray has no future at that club and that team isn't playing for anything in the present tense. No point in keeping him.

Boston would be the favourites to sign Ray Allen once he's a free agent. Very good chance of that happening should this trade go through.

Do you think Ray would want to come back here and take part in our stockpile of 30+ year old role players?

I guess that next year he'd be taking a backseat role anyways... so what difference does it make if it starts this year instead. Plus those championship rings look nice

Don't go crazy but i'm going to drool for a little as well.

Rondo   Daniels  
Butler     House   TA
Pierce     RA          Scal      Walker
Garnett   Jamison Davis   Williams
Perkins   Wallace

I think Ray Allen would return. A lot of his emotion + history on what he has accomplished here in Boston. I'm sure he would like to come back to finish the job off.

[Fafnir]

Hypothetical question: if they added in Haywood and required Perkins do you still do this? Would it screw up chemistry TOO much? I don't see what makes our offer much better than any of the other offers out there.

Yes, Haywood has been a better player overall this year. (as much as I love Perkins)

Its all about this year, not next.

[Birdbrain]

Caron Butler has an eFG% of 41%, 42% and 43% on his jump shots for the last three years.

Point taken but Butler is a terrific defender. The one weak link in our starting five for defense will be replaced by a plus defender.

I disagree, I think he's a very poor man-to-man defender. He doesn't have the lateral quickness to stick with moderate athletes at the small forward position. Nevermind the two guard spot. His team defense is solid enough though.

Maybe I am overvaluing and maybe you are undervaluing. Can we agree that he is an upgrade over Ray?

The original point I was debating is that he couldn't shoot. He is a good scorer and his defense puts him over the top to me in comparison to Ray.

No, I disagree. I think Ray is still the better player between the two.

But that's not including Jamison who would make it an improvement (Butler + Jamison) over Ray.

Ray better than Butler at this stage of their careers?  You might be on the only on that life boat.

Add in Wayne Winston and other people who look at adjusted +/-.

I'm not familiar with Wayne Winston (but if thinks Ray is better than Butler... ) and +/- with regard to players on different teams has no bearing in this discussion... wait for it ... In My Humble Opinion.

[wdleehi]

ESPN has picked up the rumor.  No surprise there.

[heyvik]

Can someone with legit credentials post up to date activity regarding this trade. I'm at work and can't concentrate!

I mean does anyone have any Boston Celtics Front Office connects? If so, post and your credentials and up-to-minute activity - I wanna see this deal get done! Today!

[Change]

I guessing Baby get included in this deal. He is fairly cheap for next season, and semi-talented.

[Birdbrain]

Caron Butler has an eFG% of 41%, 42% and 43% on his jump shots for the last three years.

Cool on this team he'll be getting a boat load more layups.

I think it matters in the starting lineup but once Jamison or Rasheed come in for Perkins ... it's not a big deal at all.

The Celtics can just post up Butler or Pierce against whoever has the smaller defender. That would be very effective for Boston + very difficult for opposing teams to handle.

What makes me really drool about this trade, is the fact that I imagine Ray would be bought out.

Trading Ray Allen's Bird Rights, Scal + Giddens and two first round picks for Butler/Jamison?

Yes please.

If Boston somehow got Ray back the rest of the league would go crazy.  Someone posted about this previously with regard to Danny and Ray's heart to heart last week.  Collusion ...

Who cares?  No one on this site.



That would just be the cherry on top.  Scali being bought out and returning would be the sprinkles.  

I'm right there with you just making a joke.