Celtics discussing a Jamison/Butler for Ray/Scal/JR trade according to Y!Sports

[Who]

Caron Butler has an eFG% of 41%, 42% and 43% on his jump shots for the last three years.

Point taken but Butler is a terrific defender. The one weak link in our starting five for defense will be replaced by a plus defender.

I disagree, I think he's a very poor man-to-man defender. He doesn't have the lateral quickness to stick with moderate athletes at the small forward position. Nevermind the two guard spot. His team defense is solid enough though.

Maybe I am overvaluing and maybe you are undervaluing. Can we agree that he is an upgrade over Ray?

The original point I was debating is that he couldn't shoot. He is a good scorer and his defense puts him over the top to me in comparison to Ray.

No, I disagree. I think Ray is still the better player between the two.

But that's not including Jamison who would make it an improvement (Butler + Jamison) over Ray.

[xmuscularghandix]

Caron Butler has an eFG% of 41%, 42% and 43% on his jump shots for the last three years.

But he also has 28 double doubles and 3 triple doubles, he's a more complete player (at this point in their respective careers, Caron's got nothing on a Prime Ray Allen). Plus his percentages will skyrocket from being on the floor with Pierce, Garnett, and Sheed.

[Kuberski33]

All valid points but at this point I'm ready to take the risk.  I mean let's be honest a move had to made for Ray to even have a chance.

I agree, as is this team isn't winning anything and the only way that changes if KG suddenly starts moving like the old KG.  I just wouldn't be taking the measurements for the next banner just yet...assuming of course this deal goes down....

[Greenbean]

Caron Butler has an eFG% of 41%, 42% and 43% on his jump shots for the last three years.

Point taken but Butler is a terrific defender. The one weak link in our starting five for defense will be replaced by a plus defender.

I disagree, I think he's a very poor man-to-man defender. He doesn't have the lateral quickness to stick with moderate athletes at the small forward position. Nevermind the two guard spot. His team defense is solid enough though.

Maybe I am overvaluing and maybe you are undervaluing. Can we agree that he is an upgrade over Ray?

The original point I was debating is that he couldn't shoot. He is a good scorer and his defense puts him over the top to me in comparison to Ray.

No, I disagree. I think Ray is still the better player between the two.

But that's not including Jamison who would make it an improvement (Butler + Jamison) over Ray.

Okay we agree to disagree.

When Ray gets bought out though this discussion will be moot.  

[Jack_Frost]

This is only a nice attempt by wizards to rise up Cleveland and Dallas offers.

[Who]

What makes me really drool about this trade, is the fact that I imagine Ray would be bought out.

Yeah, there's no value for Washington in hanging onto Ray Allen.

Better to buy him out = save a few dollars + open up more playing time for prospects like Nick Young + lose more games and win a higher draft pick

An old timer like Ray has no future at that club and that team isn't playing for anything in the present tense. No point in keeping him.

Boston would be the favourites to sign Ray Allen once he's a free agent. Very good chance of that happening should this trade go through.

[Change]

No, I disagree. I think Ray is still the better player between the two.

But that's not including Jamison who would make it an improvement (Butler + Jamison) over Ray.

What? Two things puts him over the top. Age and defense. Caron is 5years younger than Ray. No need to discuss defense. It obvious Ray was the weak-link on defense. If this trade was to happen Ray will likely get bought out and shipped back to Boston.

[Birdbrain]

Caron Butler has an eFG% of 41%, 42% and 43% on his jump shots for the last three years.

Cool on this team he'll be getting a boat load more layups.

I think it matters in the starting lineup but once Jamison or Rasheed come in for Perkins ... it's not a big deal at all.

The Celtics can just post up Butler or Pierce against whoever has the smaller defender. That would be very effective for Boston + very difficult for opposing teams to handle.

My overall point is with him playing alongside Rondo he'll be finishing more on the break and getting more wide open looks.  

[wdleehi]

I would be interested to see how both players offensive efficiency improves going from a team that does a lot of iso plays (a lot.  2nd lowest % in assisted baskets) to a team that runs more team sets.  

[twinbree]

Don't the Wiz have 15 guys on the roster? I'm assuming the suspended guys still count right? So that means someone else would have to come back in the trade. Or can they buyout Ray immediately so he doesn't even make the roster?

[WeMadeIt17]

I am really hoping when i go to work and i go on break look to Celticsblog.com and see that Jamison and Butler are coming to the Boston Celtics! PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!

[Birdbrain]

Caron Butler has an eFG% of 41%, 42% and 43% on his jump shots for the last three years.

Cool on this team he'll be getting a boat load more layups.

I think it matters in the starting lineup but once Jamison or Rasheed come in for Perkins ... it's not a big deal at all.

The Celtics can just post up Butler or Pierce against whoever has the smaller defender. That would be very effective for Boston + very difficult for opposing teams to handle.

What makes me really drool about this trade, is the fact that I imagine Ray would be bought out.

Trading Ray Allen's Bird Rights, Scal + Giddens and two first round picks for Butler/Jamison?

Yes please.

If Boston somehow got Ray back the rest of the league would go crazy.  Someone posted about this previously with regard to Danny and Ray's heart to heart last week.  Collusion ...

[ToppersBsktball10]

Caron Butler has an eFG% of 41%, 42% and 43% on his jump shots for the last three years.

Point taken but Butler is a terrific defender. The one weak link in our starting five for defense will be replaced by a plus defender.

I disagree, I think he's a very poor man-to-man defender. He doesn't have the lateral quickness to stick with moderate athletes at the small forward position. Nevermind the two guard spot. His team defense is solid enough though.

Maybe I am overvaluing and maybe you are undervaluing. Can we agree that he is an upgrade over Ray?

The original point I was debating is that he couldn't shoot. He is a good scorer and his defense puts him over the top to me in comparison to Ray.

No, I disagree. I think Ray is still the better player between the two.

But that's not including Jamison who would make it an improvement (Butler + Jamison) over Ray.

Butler's more of a lockdown guy, he's quicker and stronger. Plus he rebounds really well both defensively and offensively.

[Who]

Caron Butler has an eFG% of 41%, 42% and 43% on his jump shots for the last three years.

But he also has 28 double doubles and 3 triple doubles, he's a more complete player (at this point in their respective careers, Caron's got nothing on a Prime Ray Allen). Plus his percentages will skyrocket from being on the floor with Pierce, Garnett, and Sheed.

I don't know about that. Caron Butler has struggled offensively this season because he has been surrounded with more scoring threats. Just like he struggled in Miami once Wade + Odom arrived and how he struggled in LA with Kobe + Odom. When he's asked to play alongside other threats, his offense drops.

Caron Butler's most efficient offensive seasons have come when Arenas was injured and he was allowed to be the main offensive threat on the floor. The ball always came to him and he had the freedom to do whatever he wanted with it.

Maybe his offensive efficiency does improve when Butler arrives in Boston ... but throughout the rest of his career it's gone the other way and I think it's more likely that that pattern continues than not.

[Birdbrain]

Caron Butler has an eFG% of 41%, 42% and 43% on his jump shots for the last three years.

Cool on this team he'll be getting a boat load more layups.

Plus he's as good as a hand in the face shooter as there is. He's cold blooded, can take over a game, dope crossover, can go to the rack, and shut down a guard or forward.

I'm a big fan of Butler's as well.  He's Pierce a couple of years ago with a bit more athleticism.