Lucky17's Yahoo! Points Hoops League: 2014 Offseason: Post Lottery

[Eja117]

He would have been the 5th best big at Kentucky last year. Maybe. Depends on if you consider Poythress a big.

only if you assume that his stats as a College Junior would be worse than they were as an NBA starter.  Should be a fun season of revelations.

I think it's kinda cute when you refer to Biyombo as an NBA starter. Hey look mom. I'm an NBA starter. Phil Pressey was an NBA starter. Everyone is an nba starter!

He started 1/3rd of his games last year.  His numbers during those games were more impressive than WCS's 3rd year College stats. 

You can't fathom a world where Biyombo is successful.  I wonder what your reaction will be if you're proven wrong.

And he sat a quarter of his games. Starters don't sit a quarter of their games. WCS didn't sit any games unless it was against South West Texas State or something

The games he started were because people were hurt. He did nothing remotely similar to earning his starts

[LarBrd33]

He would have been the 5th best big at Kentucky last year. Maybe. Depends on if you consider Poythress a big.

only if you assume that his stats as a College Junior would be worse than they were as an NBA starter.  Should be a fun season of revelations.

I think it's kinda cute when you refer to Biyombo as an NBA starter. Hey look mom. I'm an NBA starter. Phil Pressey was an NBA starter. Everyone is an nba starter!

He started 1/3rd of his games last year.  His numbers during those games were more impressive than WCS's 3rd year College stats. 

You can't fathom a world where Biyombo is successful.  I wonder what your reaction will be if you're proven wrong.

And he sat a quarter of his games. Starters don't sit a quarter of their games. WCS didn't sit any games unless it was against South West Texas State or something

The games he started were because people were hurt. He did nothing remotely similar to earning his starts

Wait... do you think College ball is the same competition level as NBA basketball?  That might explain the disconnect we are having here.

[Eja117]

Can we just take a quick poll?  Going into next season with koufos as a FA who would you rather have, biyambo or koufos?

If everyone picks Koufas and a few months into the season Biyombo is outplaying him significantly, does this lend proof to my "fluctuating trade value" theory that ChampKind called me a "dipsh** F'ing Weirdo" over?

Or are you all going to still pretend that Koufas is more valuable?

It would probably lend evidence to the theories "Even a blind squirrel finds a nut" and "If you through enough crud against a wall some of it will stick"

I will be curious who gets more money in free agency and who actually hooks onto an NBA team to start with.

[Eja117]

He would have been the 5th best big at Kentucky last year. Maybe. Depends on if you consider Poythress a big.

only if you assume that his stats as a College Junior would be worse than they were as an NBA starter.  Should be a fun season of revelations.

I think it's kinda cute when you refer to Biyombo as an NBA starter. Hey look mom. I'm an NBA starter. Phil Pressey was an NBA starter. Everyone is an nba starter!

He started 1/3rd of his games last year.  His numbers during those games were more impressive than WCS's 3rd year College stats. 

You can't fathom a world where Biyombo is successful.  I wonder what your reaction will be if you're proven wrong.

And he sat a quarter of his games. Starters don't sit a quarter of their games. WCS didn't sit any games unless it was against South West Texas State or something

The games Biyombo started were because people were hurt. He did nothing remotely similar to earning his starts

Wait... do you think College ball is the same competition level as NBA basketball?  That might explain the disconnect we are having here.

Who do you think will truly start more game in the NBA next year? WCS or Biyombo?

The NBA is definitely a major level up from college. That's why Biyombo hardly plays. WCS is going to play in the NBA next year. Biyombo won't.

[LarBrd33]

He would have been the 5th best big at Kentucky last year. Maybe. Depends on if you consider Poythress a big.

only if you assume that his stats as a College Junior would be worse than they were as an NBA starter.  Should be a fun season of revelations.

I think it's kinda cute when you refer to Biyombo as an NBA starter. Hey look mom. I'm an NBA starter. Phil Pressey was an NBA starter. Everyone is an nba starter!

He started 1/3rd of his games last year.  His numbers during those games were more impressive than WCS's 3rd year College stats. 

You can't fathom a world where Biyombo is successful.  I wonder what your reaction will be if you're proven wrong.

And he sat a quarter of his games. Starters don't sit a quarter of their games. WCS didn't sit any games unless it was against South West Texas State or something

The games Biyombo started were because people were hurt. He did nothing remotely similar to earning his starts

Wait... do you think College ball is the same competition level as NBA basketball?  That might explain the disconnect we are having here.

Who do you think will truly start more game in the NBA next year? WCS or Biyombo?

The NBA is definitely a major level up from college. That's why Biyombo hardly plays. WCS is going to play in the NBA next year. Biyombo won't.

Why are you certain of that?  I am optimistic about Biyombo, but I wouldn't make such a logic-defying statement.

It depends where WCS and Biyombo end up.   Maybe WCS starts.  Maybe he doesn't.  I found his college stats in Kentucky to be fairly underwhelming.   He spent three years playing college ball and showed minimal improvement.  He averaged 8.9 points, 6.4 rebounds, 1.7 blocks and 1.2 steals on 57% shooting (62% from the line)... and yet he might go as high as 3rd in the draft depending on what mock you're buying.

Archie goodwin a a freshman at Kentucky averaged 14 points, 5 rebounds, 3 assists and a steal.  He averaged 10 minutes as a rookie and 13 minutes last season in only 41 minutes. 

James young averaged 14 points, 4 rebounds as a freshman at Kentucky.  He averaged 10 minutes in 31 games for the Celtics.

Yet you're convinced that WCS is a lock to get big minutes while Biyombo is going to be playing in Europe.  Yeah, ok. 

[Eja117]

He would have been the 5th best big at Kentucky last year. Maybe. Depends on if you consider Poythress a big.

only if you assume that his stats as a College Junior would be worse than they were as an NBA starter.  Should be a fun season of revelations.

I think it's kinda cute when you refer to Biyombo as an NBA starter. Hey look mom. I'm an NBA starter. Phil Pressey was an NBA starter. Everyone is an nba starter!

He started 1/3rd of his games last year.  His numbers during those games were more impressive than WCS's 3rd year College stats. 

You can't fathom a world where Biyombo is successful.  I wonder what your reaction will be if you're proven wrong.

And he sat a quarter of his games. Starters don't sit a quarter of their games. WCS didn't sit any games unless it was against South West Texas State or something

The games Biyombo started were because people were hurt. He did nothing remotely similar to earning his starts

Wait... do you think College ball is the same competition level as NBA basketball?  That might explain the disconnect we are having here.

Who do you think will truly start more game in the NBA next year? WCS or Biyombo?

The NBA is definitely a major level up from college. That's why Biyombo hardly plays. WCS is going to play in the NBA next year. Biyombo won't.

Why are you certain of that?  I am optimistic about Biyombo, but I wouldn't make such a logic-defying statement.

It depends where WCS and Biyombo end up.   Maybe WCS starts.  Maybe he doesn't.  I found his college stats in Kentucky to be fairly underwhelming.   He spent three years playing college ball and showed minimal improvement.  He averaged 8.9 points, 6.4 rebounds, 1.7 blocks and 1.2 steals on 57% shooting (62% from the line)... and yet he might go as high as 3rd in the draft depending on what mock you're buying.

Archie goodwin a a freshman at Kentucky averaged 14 points, 5 rebounds, 3 assists and a steal.  He averaged 10 minutes as a rookie and 13 minutes last season in only 41 minutes. 

James young averaged 14 points, 4 rebounds as a freshman at Kentucky.  He averaged 10 minutes in 31 games for the Celtics.

Yet you're convinced that WCS is a lock to get big minutes while Biyombo is going to be playing in Europe.  Yeah, ok.

So now we're comparing a junior big that will be drafted in the top ten to two guard/wings that left after their freshman years and were drafted in the teens and late 20s?

Wouldn't the better comparison be Nerlens Noel who is closer in age and is a big drafted high?

[LarBrd33]

Let's go to the tale of the tape.

Years experience:
Koufas - 1 year college/7 years NBA
Biyombo - 0 years college/4 years NBA

Age:
Koufas 26
Biyombo 22

Measurements:
Koufas - 7'1 height, 7'0 wingspan, 9'0 standing reach
Biyombo - 6'9 height, 7'7 Wingspan, 9'4 standing reach

Career stats:
Koufas - 15mpg, 6.4 points, 4.7 rebounds, 0.8 blocks, 53%/62%
Biyombo - 21mpg, 4.4 points, 6.1 rebounds, 1.6 blocks, 50%/53%

2014-15 Stats:
Koufas - 16.6mpg 5.5 points, 5.3 rebounds, 0.8 blocks 51%/65%
Biyombo - 19.4mpg, 4.8 points, 6.4 rebounds, 1.5 blocks, 54%/58%

Per-36 Stats:
Koufas - 11.2 points, 11.4 rebounds, 1.7 blocks
Biyombo - 8.8 points, 11.8 rebounds, 2.9 blocks

Defensive rating:
Koufas - 99
Biyombo - 99

Offensive rating:
Koufas - 103
Biyombo - 115

Room for development:
Koufas - Done developing
Biyombo - Sky's the limit

Role next season:
Koufas - likely backing up Gasol on Memphis
Biyombo - Starting center for the Boston Celtics

Easy comparison.  Biyombo by a country mile. 

[Gainesville Celtic]

Can someone remind me what the point of this debate is??

That a few fantasy league GMs differ on how they view some players?

[Eja117]

Out of curiosity on that tale of tape thing. Could we please point out how many games Gasol and Zebo missed vs how many C Zeller, Al J, and Vonleh missed?

One guy earned his minutes.
The other had them handed to him and still didn't do much

[LarBrd33]

Can someone remind me what the point of this debate is??

That a few fantasy league GMs differ on how they view some players?

There's no point to it.  If I'm right, I'm right.  If I'm wrong, I'm wrong.  We'll find out soon enough.   Free agency is right around the corner.  I'll have a better idea of Biyombo's future when we figure out when he lands... and it's not going to take long for the overhyped rookies to disappoint expectations.

[Eja117]

Can someone remind me what the point of this debate is??

That a few fantasy league GMs differ on how they view some players?

Guys like to make confident predictions.

[ChampKind]

If everyone picks Koufas and a few months into the season Biyombo is outplaying him significantly, does this lend proof to my "fluctuating trade value" theory that ChampKind called me a "dipsh** F'ing Weirdo" over?

I apologized to you afterward. You accepted. I've gone out of my way to not insult you or make any personal attacks towards you since then. Either move on - or don't - but please don't drag me into any of this.

[LarBrd33]

#2 may be on the move

[byennie]

I see Biyombo about how I see Zeller. Nice player who will have a long career and does a few things very well. The big question is, will anyone ever play him 30+ minutes a game (which is needed to make him a good fantasy pickup)? I mean in theory, Zeller can be a nice 15-and-9 player. Just like Biyombo projects as something like 8-10-2 with good defense. However, they both seem to fall into "good backup" / "occasional starter" territory. Valuable, but less so in fantasy.

My take? Biyombo's never going to be good enough offensively to play more than 20-25 minutes a night. During his draft workout years ago, he couldn't make shots unguarded. He still can't, and there are very few opportunities with starters minutes when you can't score at all. You need to be a Ben Wallace, Dennis Rodman, etc type who dominates in some facet. Biyombo is a good rebounder and shot blocker, but I wouldn't say dominant.

That said, he IS 22, and will almost certainly have a better career than plenty of players drafted in June. For what it's worth.

[Gainesville Celtic]

What am I missing?  In 2014, only 9 rookies outperformed Biyombo.     Thus... in 2014, Biyombo outperformed 85% of the players taken in the 2014 draft  ... 75% is conservative.

but....

... this is a dynasty league. so even if a bump in mins leads to BB outperforming rookie X,Y, or Z in 2015-16, i think you and the other GMs realize that it doesn't mean he's as valuable as those rookies over then next 1,2...3 years.

... isn't BB going into his 5th season? So even if he outperforms rookie X,Y, or Z in 2015-16 it's not unreasonable for the top 10-15 rookies to keep developing as they get into their 2, 3, 4th seaons, and therefore have a better than even chance at being better overall values than BB right?

I still don't see why we're arguing about this. If a GM can trade a player or pick for a player or pick they like more -- FOR WHATEVER REASON -- they should.... if they can't, well they can't.