The Celtic-Clipper trade talk (merged) - Clippers back out.

[BballTim]

CT32, I wanna give you some food for thought:

Chris Paul has already left one NBA franchise because he felt they weren't willing to make the moves to give him a chance to win. Let's say the Clippers pull out of this deal. They not only pass on Doc, but also a serious roster upgrade in KG.

What happens when CP3 starts his free agency tour, and meets with Daryl "Wonderkid" Morey & Coach McHale in Houston or Coach Carlisle & Mark "Deep Pockets" Cuban in Dallas and they pitch him on being willing to make those big moves. Do you really think he doesn't at least consider it?

I think that this is the first time in his career that he's paired with a young superstar in blake, in a large market. He left that franchise cause they were more focused on rebuilding and saving money. That's not the case with the clippers. If this deal doesn't go through, the clippers still get a new coach that cp3 likes, along with better developed dj, bg, and bledsoe. Completely different situation than in new orleans.

But not a completely different situation than last year in which you did worse in the playoffs than the year before...CP wants to be on a contender and that team you have now is not a contender.

so Doc and a 37 year old KG (who we don't even know will survive next season) are gonna make the clipps a contender? getting hollins and improving DJ won't do that?

Um, yeah. That's why CP wants the deal to happen. You can't even keep Jordan on the floor. He got benched. Just look at their stats, man. KG makes players around him better.

where did cp3 himself say that he wants the deal to happen

again, if cp3 said that he wants doc and kg, management would take both terry and lee, and probably give bledsoe to you guys. the clippers not being desperate tells me that cp3 said no such thing, and that the earlier rumors that he likes hollins is again shown

   There were numerous reports that CP3 wanted to get KG at the trade deadline, it's hard to imagine that this year's postseason flameout would have changed his mind.

[Fafnir]

Especially given that after two year's he has soured on Jordan, despite initially insisting they match any offer for him.

[tyrone biggums]

I think Danny will settle for
DeAndre Jordan
2013 first round pick+ 2014 first round pick.
Caron Butler for Jason Terry, Lee or Bass.

I'd say they ask for Bass (for playoff defense and finals experience bench big- they can run off the elbow like we did KG and Bass when Griffin is off). Danny will want to keep Bass as a filler in another future trade and because he actually has some value. I'd say the Clippers settle for Terry because Doc will demand it because he's the best piece in a genuine championship chase for them.

I'm assuming Danny will not budge unless we get both those picks.
There's a very realistic chance of KG going down with injury at some stage and if he does, those picks in the 24-30 range will become mid first rounders.
Getting Bledsoe would help this even more.

If Danny settles for anything less than DJ, Butler and a 2014 first with the Clippers eating at LEAST Terry's contract, then I'd be seriously upset.

I'd like to see him push through for another first or them taking on Bass as well.

Does anyone know why Danny seems intent on sending Lee and Terry per the reports? I would have thought of the Lee/Bass/Terry trio Lee would be the most marketable given his age and versatility.

Sacks is probably willing to do this. The problem for the Clippers fan base is at the mercy of the cheapest owner in pro sports, Donald Sterling.

[Rondo2287]

Have the clippers ever had a black head coach before?

[celticinorlando]

So......

We trade KG (who is STILL better than Jordan), Rivers and waive PP

and get back Jordan (VASTLY overpaid and overrated) and 2 low first round picks that amount to a JR Giddens, Fab Melo, Gabe Pruitt type of player

and we are still stuck with ****ty old Terry? and Lee? and Bass?

What a freakin joke. If boston makes that deal Ainge needs to take his arse with Doc. That is brutal. Just NOTHING positive at all in the deal

I will say it DeAndre Jordan sucks.

I prefer Doc walk. KG retire, PPR bought out and being sorry with a good draft coming up in 2014 than watching Jordan brick shot, miss lay ups and be gone in a year or 2

[Tgro]

Gotta feel like one way or another, today is the day. Either the deal goes through or after today, things start breaking off and teams start backing out (which is my hope). Just feel like they are so far into this that if you're going to do it, you're going to do it and get it over with. And if you're queasy about it, your cold feet are going to start backing you out and being for real about it and looking in another direction.

Not saying it would work out if the deal doesn't go through, but I'm hoping at the end of the day we are still the employers of KG and Doc.

[chambers]

So......

We trade KG (who is STILL better than Jordan), Rivers and waive PP

and get back Jordan (VASTLY overpaid and overrated) and 2 low first round picks that amount to a JR Giddens, Fab Melo, Gabe Pruitt type of player

and we are still stuck with ****ty old Terry? and Lee? and Bass?

What a freakin joke. If boston makes that deal Ainge needs to take his arse with Doc. That is brutal. Just NOTHING positive at all in the deal

I will say it DeAndre Jordan sucks.

I prefer Doc walk. KG retire, PPR bought out and being sorry with a good draft coming up in 2014 than watching Jordan brick shot, miss lay ups and be gone in a year or 2

It's frustrating if you look at it that way.
Unfortunately we don't have a choice because Doc has made it clear he's leaving and now it's holding Danny Ainge hostage to the Clippers demands. I mean we are almost lucky that we can get DeAndre and some picks for them.

Rebuilding/tanking is about acquiring assets for the future.
DeAndre isn't part of our future plans for the long term (unless he dramatically improves).
He is however a freakishly athletic 7 footer with lots of potential at 24 years old. He's never had any responsibility on the offensive end and never really had many plays drawn up for him. He takes a back seat to Griffin and Paul and only gets 24 minutes per game.
On a weaker Celtics team, he'll be more of a focal point on offense and will basically be an alley oop machine. The ultimate goal being to try and convince other GM's that he's turning into Tyson Chandler as he gets older.
Think about Chandlers offense. Yeah you're right it doesn't exist. But he's an athletic 7 footer who protects the rim and can rebound and finish lobs.

Jordan with 34 minutes a game will at least live up to his 10 million a year contract because Rondo will make him look like he's worth that much.
Infact I think Danny sees him as a Tyson Chandler project.
Rondo is the superstar point guard like Chris Paul was, and Jordan is Chandler catching lobs, defending the basket and slamming down alley oops.

Give him 34 minutes a game. Leave him in at the end of games. He won't hit free throws but that's good because we'll lose games while his stats get better across the board.
We'll lose a lot of games but his numbers will skyrocket and his value will go up a tonne. He'll become a serious asset. It's a great place to bring Jordan because its like him playing on the Clippers without Blake Griffin.
Imagine Chris Paul without Blake Griffin...who would all those lobs go to and all those backdoor lob plays get run for? DJ that's who.
If all else fails and he never improves he's an expiring deal that still helps in a trade in 2 years. Believe me though he'll go up in value playing on the court with Rondo for so many minutes- it's like natural selection.

The picks are essential because they're first round picks. Huge assets. We can package them for a top 15 pick. Or send Avery Bradley and two picks for a top 10 pick. Who knows?
Would a team in 2014 take our tank achieved top 6 pick PLUS Rondo for the number one or two pick if it meant we could get Wiggins, Parker or Julius Randle?
These are why these assets are so important. You don't know what they're worth but they are a commodity- even moreso now that the salary cap rules have changed.

This is the first step in a re-build and unfortunately Danny is stuck in a spot where he's lost leverage.
He simply can't let KG retire for nothing. What was the point in signing him? Doc's bailed early and him leaving basically means KG and Pierce are gone too.
Remember we are a week away from draft night and this could be the first of many moves made for our future.

[Snakehead]

Stay firm Danny.

Despite how the media has twisted it to seem otherwise, WE have the leverage.  They have CP3 to lose here.

[celtsfan84]

Have the clippers ever had a black head coach before?

Multiple.  Alvin Gentry for a few years, most recently.

[RJ87]

So......

We trade KG (who is STILL better than Jordan), Rivers and waive PP

and get back Jordan (VASTLY overpaid and overrated) and 2 low first round picks that amount to a JR Giddens, Fab Melo, Gabe Pruitt type of player

and we are still stuck with ****ty old Terry? and Lee? and Bass?

What a freakin joke. If boston makes that deal Ainge needs to take his arse with Doc. That is brutal. Just NOTHING positive at all in the deal

I will say it DeAndre Jordan sucks.

I prefer Doc walk. KG retire, PPR bought out and being sorry with a good draft coming up in 2014 than watching Jordan brick shot, miss lay ups and be gone in a year or 2

It's frustrating if you look at it that way.
Unfortunately we don't have a choice because Doc has made it clear he's leaving and now it's holding Danny Ainge hostage to the Clippers demands. I mean we are almost lucky that we can get DeAndre and some picks for them.

Rebuilding/tanking is about acquiring assets for the future.
DeAndre isn't part of our future plans for the long term (unless he dramatically improves).
He is however a freakishly athletic 7 footer with lots of potential at 24 years old. He's never had any responsibility on the offensive end and never really had many plays drawn up for him. He takes a back seat to Griffin and Paul and only gets 24 minutes per game.
On a weaker Celtics team, he'll be more of a focal point on offense and will basically be an alley oop machine. The ultimate goal being to try and convince other GM's that he's turning into Tyson Chandler as he gets older.
Think about Chandlers offense. Yeah you're right it doesn't exist. But he's an athletic 7 footer who protects the rim and can rebound and finish lobs.

Jordan with 34 minutes a game will at least live up to his 10 million a year contract because Rondo will make him look like he's worth that much.
Infact I think Danny sees him as a Tyson Chandler project.
Rondo is the superstar point guard like Chris Paul was, and Jordan is Chandler catching lobs, defending the basket and slamming down alley oops.

Give him 34 minutes a game. Leave him in at the end of games. He won't hit free throws but that's good because we'll lose games while his stats get better across the board.
We'll lose a lot of games but his numbers will skyrocket and his value will go up a tonne. He'll become a serious asset. It's a great place to bring Jordan because its like him playing on the Clippers without Blake Griffin.
Imagine Chris Paul without Blake Griffin...who would all those lobs go to and all those backdoor lob plays get run for? DJ that's who.
If all else fails and he never improves he's an expiring deal that still helps in a trade in 2 years. Believe me though he'll go up in value playing on the court with Rondo for so many minutes- it's like natural selection.

The picks are essential because they're first round picks. Huge assets. We can package them for a top 15 pick. Or send Avery Bradley and two picks for a top 10 pick. Who knows?
Would a team in 2014 take our tank achieved top 6 pick PLUS Rondo for the number one or two pick if it meant we could get Wiggins, Parker or Julius Randle?
These are why these assets are so important. You don't know what they're worth but they are a commodity- even moreso now that the salary cap rules have changed.

This is the first step in a re-build and unfortunately Danny is stuck in a spot where he's lost leverage.
He simply can't let KG retire for nothing. What was the point in signing him? Doc's bailed early and him leaving basically means KG and Pierce are gone too.
Remember we are a week away from draft night and this could be the first of many moves made for our future.

Except we do have a choice. Doc can't coach unless we consent. No way he has the gaul to come back to Boston after all of this, so he'd resign and take less money to do broadcasting for 3 years.

[connor]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--sources--kevin-garnett--doc-rivers-trade-may-come-down-to-clippers-surrendering-two-first-round-draft-picks-to-celtics-030159443.html

So now according to Woj Danny has backed off of his demand they take Terry or Lee and instead is pushing for 2 firsts in addition to Jordan.

NO. Just no. That is a terrible return. People were talking about getting at least 1 first for Doc alone, so the rest of the deal would be DJ and a first for KG? Thats highway robbery.

The salary cap flexibility we could get by moving one or two of Terry/Lee/Bass would be far more useful for us as a club going down the line than a late first rounder in the 20-30 range.

Danny has lost the leverage by having this be so public and making it appear to be an irreconcilable situation between the C's and Doc. He needs to walk away from this trade and sit down with Doc and KG and get them on board with at least being willing to come back for another season.

If he can do that he creates another option for us so LAC doesn't have us backed into a corner. No its not a great option, but if LAC thinks we are willing to keep the band together again maybe they bend a bit.

Chris Paul is already pushing for this deal and every indication is that he is basically running things there. If this deal starts to fall apart they are going to have to explain to him why they didn't do what it took to get KG and Doc. I think Paul will care a lot less about taking on Terry's contract than the FO will.

Yes we are in a worse situation than LAC if this deal doesn't go through, but we aren't competing anyway and everyone knows that. We are going to be suffering through a rebuild anyway this deal falling apart isn't going to make that much worse. Lets make them find an alternative rather than letting them rob us.

WALK AWAY DANNY. Make them consider their other options. They aren't getting another player better than KG. Maybe someone who fits in their long term plans better, but definitely not a better player.

WALK AWAY DANNY.

[RLewis35]

So......

We trade KG (who is STILL better than Jordan), Rivers and waive PP

and get back Jordan (VASTLY overpaid and overrated) and 2 low first round picks that amount to a JR Giddens, Fab Melo, Gabe Pruitt type of player

and we are still stuck with ****ty old Terry? and Lee? and Bass?

What a freakin joke. If boston makes that deal Ainge needs to take his arse with Doc. That is brutal. Just NOTHING positive at all in the deal

I will say it DeAndre Jordan sucks.

I prefer Doc walk. KG retire, PPR bought out and being sorry with a good draft coming up in 2014 than watching Jordan brick shot, miss lay ups and be gone in a year or 2

Or the low first round picks could amount to a rondo, Bradley, sullinger type player.  They are lottery tickets essentially.  Can't assume they are gonna be  Pruitt. 

[LilRip]

let KG and PP retire as Celtics!!!

[Afam]

Walk away danny. The clippers can't  eat they cake and have it too.First they called danny ainge and expressed interest in having doc rivers as they coach . Second once the negotiation started we asked for Jordan, Bledsoe and two first round picks they refused.Then we wanted them too take take terry and Lee in the deal instead of Bledsoe, the clippers said no again.

The clippers then proceeded too want the celtics too add pierce to the deal,but they are not willing to include Bledsoe to make that happen. The clippers even went as far as offering to do the deal centered around dj, and a pick. How about the clippers just ask us to give them Kg, Pierce and Doc for free. When is Danny ainge going too have some pride. I'm a big danny ainge supporter, but If he makes this deal, he should be fired. He is letting the Lol Clippers punk him. Maybe it's time we bring Larry Bird and fire Ainge. Enough is Enough. The clippers can't eat they cake and have it too. You must give something too receive something

[celticinorlando]

So......

We trade KG (who is STILL better than Jordan), Rivers and waive PP

and get back Jordan (VASTLY overpaid and overrated) and 2 low first round picks that amount to a JR Giddens, Fab Melo, Gabe Pruitt type of player

and we are still stuck with ****ty old Terry? and Lee? and Bass?

What a freakin joke. If boston makes that deal Ainge needs to take his arse with Doc. That is brutal. Just NOTHING positive at all in the deal

I will say it DeAndre Jordan sucks.

I prefer Doc walk. KG retire, PPR bought out and being sorry with a good draft coming up in 2014 than watching Jordan brick shot, miss lay ups and be gone in a year or 2

Or the low first round picks could amount to a rondo, Bradley, sullinger type player.  They are lottery tickets essentially.  Can't assume they are gonna be  Pruitt.

for the most part though..boston isn't going to strike gold with picks down around 25...and if they are counting on that..then they are in trouble.