Is Rajon Rondo a HoFer?

[nickagneta]

Rondo hasn't been a role player since the 2008-09 season. He's been a star for most of the rest of his time since that season. You don't average over 11 assists a game while leading the league in assists and/or assists per game for years at a time and be called a role player. Not when you have been a multiple time All-Defense player as well as All-NBA player.

But to koz's main point, it is really too early to be asking such questions unless you are talking to Tommy Heinsohn or questioning his sanity because Tommy has been saying this for years.

[mmmmm]

Everyone missing Tim Duncan, who is considered by the NBA as an international player.

By far.

He has a US citizenship, though.

Why is Hakeem (born and raised in Nigeria) not in this discussion?

I'm sorry, all due respect to Dirk, Tim, Tony, et. al., but The Dream would easily get my vote over any of them.

[mmmmm]

Rondo hasn't been a role player since the 2008-09 season. He's been a star for most of the rest of his time since that season. You don't average over 11 assists a game while leading the league in assists and/or assists per game for years at a time and be called a role player. Not when you have been a multiple time All-Defense player as well as All-NBA player.

But to koz's main point, it is really too early to be asking such questions unless you are talking to Tommy Heinsohn or questioning his sanity because Tommy has been saying this for years.

I don't disagree that it is far too early in Rondo's career to say whether the should be in the HoF.

But I disagree strongly with koz' assertion that Rondo has been merely a 'role player' for half his career so far.

Rondo has not been a role player since the start of the 2008 playoffs.   That doesn't mean he is automatically in the hall of fame.   But as of that playoffs, the offense clearly became centered around Rondo's playmaking and never went back.

[BballTim]

I mean he hasnt even entered his prime yet... Lets see what accomplishments he can add to his already mipressive resume in the next three, four and five years

He'll be 28 next season... coming off a major injury.  I just read he's 6-9 months away from even being able to run.  He might not even play next season.  Perhaps he returns for 2014-15 season at the age of 29.  His prime is over.

  The fact that you think a player's prime ends before they reach 30 is unsurprising.

Do you think D-Rose has yet to reach his prime?  He's only 24.  Already an MVP once.  The best is yet to come, right?

  I wouldn't be surprised if he was close to it. This isn't a hard and fast rule but if you look at the better pgs in history you'll find that those who were picked at or near the top of the draft (Magic, Isiah, CP3, Deron, Rose) reach their highest level of play sooner than players taken later in the draft (Rondo, Nash, Stockton for example). It's hardly surprising, the more nba-ready players are chosen earlier. There are clearly exceptions (like Kidd and Payton) who took a while to mature but I don't think Rose falls into that category. If you're looking for Rose (or Wall) to have the improvement trajectory we've seen from Rondo you're likely to be disappointed.

[jambr380]

Everyone missing Tim Duncan, who is considered by the NBA as an international player.

By far.

He has a US citizenship, though.

Why is Hakeem (born and raised in Nigeria) not in this discussion?

I'm sorry, all due respect to Dirk, Tim, Tony, et. al., but The Dream would easily get my vote over any of them.

Yeah, I agree with Olajuwon. I sometimes forget how great he was, but then go back and look at highlights and am blown away. The guy had amazing post moves - much better than McHale, his defense was ridiculous, and he was a great leader. Obviously Duncan [especially], Nowitzki, and Nash all have a say in this discussion; however, Tony Parker certainly does not. He is 5th, at best.

[BballTim]

Rondo hasn't been a role player since the 2008-09 season. He's been a star for most of the rest of his time since that season. You don't average over 11 assists a game while leading the league in assists and/or assists per game for years at a time and be called a role player. Not when you have been a multiple time All-Defense player as well as All-NBA player.

But to koz's main point, it is really too early to be asking such questions unless you are talking to Tommy Heinsohn or questioning his sanity because Tommy has been saying this for years.

  Tommy's likely right on this one. Clearly if Rondo never played another game he won't make the hall but if he continues to perform like he has in the past he's got a pretty good shot. It's not like he has to make a major jump in his level of play to be in the conversation, just stay fairly healthy for a while.

[Celtics18]

I mean he hasnt even entered his prime yet... Lets see what accomplishments he can add to his already mipressive resume in the next three, four and five years

He'll be 28 next season... coming off a major injury.  I just read he's 6-9 months away from even being able to run.  He might not even play next season.  Perhaps he returns for 2014-15 season at the age of 29.  His prime is over.

  The fact that you think a player's prime ends before they reach 30 is unsurprising.

Do you think D-Rose has yet to reach his prime?  He's only 24.  Already an MVP once.  The best is yet to come, right?

You are changing the argument here.  There's a chance that someone like Rose continues to improve, but considering how good he already is (and how good he was coming into the league), I doubt his ceiling is much higher than the level he was playing at before injuring his knee.

Back to Rondo, his chances of continuing to improve aren't much better than Rose's.  It took him a little longer to hit his NBA stride coming out of college.  He wasn't as good at 19 to 20 years old as Derrick Rose.  I don't think anyone will deny that.

However, for most top level NBA players, their prime playing years don't end until they are about 32 or 33 years of age.  Rondo just recently turned 27.  That means he's got 5 or 6 seasons of his prime left.  That's enough time to double up on what he's already accomplished and be a very solid hall of fame candidate. 

If he stays healthy, he could hang on for another four or five years after that.  His level of play will surely start to decline at some point during that stretch, but he'll be able to continue to rack up numbers that will add to resume.  Who knows, maybe he'll even get a late career, past his prime, but significant contributor title a la Jason Kidd?

If Danny can pull the right strings and somehow help get him one in the middle while he's still in his prime, then he's a lock. 

[Celtics4ever]

If he keeps getting triple doubles and racking up the assists, I think he will be without a doubt.

[Celtics17]

I am assuming the person who wrote this thread meant is Rondo on his way to the HOF. If so, then yes he is. Of course anything can happen and there is zero chance he's in right now based on a short career.
Six feet one inch points who put up the numbers Rondo does are rare. In fact, I can't think of any, ever! Kidd was a great rebounder for a point but he's also taller, and bigger. If Rondo comes back and plays like he has then he has  a good chance. If his playoff performances are on pace then he's a lock, especially if his teams win.

[BballTim]

I mean he hasnt even entered his prime yet... Lets see what accomplishments he can add to his already mipressive resume in the next three, four and five years

  Considering that he really is just entering his prime the numbers he's put up in the playoffs are fairly impressive. Here's what most of the HOF (and HOF level players) from the last 30+ years have averaged in the playoffs, not over their careers but over the primes of their careers:

  Magic 20/7/13
  Isiah 21/5/9
  Stockton 16/4/12
  Payton  22/5/7
  Kidd  16/7/9
  Nash  18/4/10

  If you look at those players many of them had their best years start at the age Rondo was a year or two ago and go up for a few years so it's not out of the question that Rondo's numbers (especially his scoring) will go up over time. But in any case, his numbers over the last 4 playoffs were 16/7/10.

  So Rondo's playoff numbers over the last 4 years are pretty much in line with the primes of Nash, Kidd and Stockton and a little behind Payton, Thomas and Magic. However, if you consider that they played in a different era and their teams probably averaged 10-20 ppg more than the Celts of the last few years the difference isn't that great.

  So obviously he'll need to keep his play up going forward but what we've seen from him over his last 66 playoff games clearly puts him in very good company. The 17/7/12 he averaged last year and the year before prior to his elbow injury (25 total games) probably puts him arguably on the level of everyone on the list besides Magic.
 

[Monkhouse]

I am assuming the person who wrote this thread meant is Rondo on his way to the HOF. If so, then yes he is. Of course anything can happen and there is zero chance he's in right now based on a short career.
Six feet one inch points who put up the numbers Rondo does are rare. In fact, I can't think of any, ever! Kidd was a great rebounder for a point but he's also taller, and bigger. If Rondo comes back and plays like he has then he has  a good chance. If his playoff performances are on pace then he's a lock, especially if his teams win.

Thank you.

If I clearly meant Rondo would be a HoFer right now, then I wouldn't have had made the third option.

Rajon Rondo is probably one of my favorite Celtic players right now, next to KG/Pierce. Watching him at times excited me, and sometimes infuriated me with his style of play.

I don't know why people keep putting Rondo so low especially on ESPN. People still forget the heroics Rondo has done by himself alone, especially when he would take over games.

And no one can disagree that if we had Rondo, this wouldn't have been so lopsided. Everyone knew, but yet everyone kept dissing him, and not giving him the respect.

There is a lot of confusion when bloggers will say Rondo can't lead this team, and yet from '08 to '12 that's exactly what his role was as a team leader. Pierce, and KG especially know the ceiling and potential for Rondo fledgling prime will be like.

I foresee a great future if Danny decides to keep Rondo, and finds a good back up PG once Rondo is gone.

A core of Sully/Green/Bradley/Rondo can easily be a playoff, all we need is a good big, and we'll possibly be contenders.

[CoachBo]

In a word, no.

11 assists a game - without enough scoring to back this offense, a point made repeatedly in the first half of this season, and a marked decline in defensive effort - isn't going to get it done.

If he starts scoring, and discovers some renewed interest in defending, perhaps.

Today? Not even close.

Nor does it matter. This remains, I believe, a team game. Individual honors are for people who don't grasp that fact.

[Celtics18]

In a word, no.

11 assists a game - without enough scoring to back this offense, a point made repeatedly in the first half of this season, and a marked decline in defensive effort - isn't going to get it done.

If he starts scoring, and discovers some renewed interest in defending, perhaps.

Today? Not even close.

Nor does it matter. This remains, I believe, a team game. Individual honors are for people who don't grasp that fact.

I'm pretty sure that everyone here grasps the fact that basketball is a team game.  It also remains true that having very talented players on the team helps a team be really good. 

That matters. 

[Juneauz]

In a word, no.

11 assists a game - without enough scoring to back this offense, a point made repeatedly in the first half of this season, and a marked decline in defensive effort - isn't going to get it done.

If he starts scoring, and discovers some renewed interest in defending, perhaps.

Today? Not even close.

Nor does it matter. This remains, I believe, a team game. Individual honors are for people who don't grasp that fact.

This topic is about individual honors though. An obviety like "basketball is a team game" on a thread where we're discussing Hofs doesn't make much sense...

Anyway, I believe Rondo has to keep this pace for another few years to prove himself an Hof. But his records are already deserving going by the book. At this point, it would surprise me more if he didn't enter the Hof than if he eventually did. (Another ring would help!)

[kozlodoev]

In a word, no.

11 assists a game - without enough scoring to back this offense, a point made repeatedly in the first half of this season, and a marked decline in defensive effort - isn't going to get it done.

If he starts scoring, and discovers some renewed interest in defending, perhaps.

Today? Not even close.

Nor does it matter. This remains, I believe, a team game. Individual honors are for people who don't grasp that fact.

This topic is about individual honors though. An obviety like "basketball is a team game" on a thread where we're discussing Hofs doesn't make much sense...

Anyway, I believe Rondo has to keep this pace for another few years to prove himself an Hof. But his records are already deserving going by the book. At this point, it would surprise me more if he didn't enter the Hof than if he eventually did. (Another ring would help!)

Since people seem to think Rondo was already a HoF worthy star in 2009, I guess if Greivis Vasquez keeps up his work from this season, we'll be discussing his HoF bid in 3-4 years or so?