Is Rajon Rondo a HoFer?

[Celtics18]

In a word, no.

11 assists a game - without enough scoring to back this offense, a point made repeatedly in the first half of this season, and a marked decline in defensive effort - isn't going to get it done.

If he starts scoring, and discovers some renewed interest in defending, perhaps.

Today? Not even close.

Nor does it matter. This remains, I believe, a team game. Individual honors are for people who don't grasp that fact.

This topic is about individual honors though. An obviety like "basketball is a team game" on a thread where we're discussing Hofs doesn't make much sense...

Anyway, I believe Rondo has to keep this pace for another few years to prove himself an Hof. But his records are already deserving going by the book. At this point, it would surprise me more if he didn't enter the Hof than if he eventually did. (Another ring would help!)

Since people seem to think Rondo was already a HoF worthy star in 2009, I guess if Greivis Vasquez keeps up his work from this season, we'll be discussing his HoF bid in 3-4 years or so?

If Greivis Vasquez contributes to a championship and leads his team to an additional conference title and two conference championship appearances over that stretch, then we might start discussing his chances. 

[kozlodoev]

In a word, no.

11 assists a game - without enough scoring to back this offense, a point made repeatedly in the first half of this season, and a marked decline in defensive effort - isn't going to get it done.

If he starts scoring, and discovers some renewed interest in defending, perhaps.

Today? Not even close.

Nor does it matter. This remains, I believe, a team game. Individual honors are for people who don't grasp that fact.

This topic is about individual honors though. An obviety like "basketball is a team game" on a thread where we're discussing Hofs doesn't make much sense...

Anyway, I believe Rondo has to keep this pace for another few years to prove himself an Hof. But his records are already deserving going by the book. At this point, it would surprise me more if he didn't enter the Hof than if he eventually did. (Another ring would help!)

Since people seem to think Rondo was already a HoF worthy star in 2009, I guess if Greivis Vasquez keeps up his work from this season, we'll be discussing his HoF bid in 3-4 years or so?

If Greivis Vasquez contributes to a championship and leads his team to an additional conference title and two conference championship appearances over that stretch, then we might start discussing his chances.

Uh-huh. Because that's precisely what Rondo was going to do with the 2013 Hornets if he were their starting PG.

[mmmmm]

In a word, no.

11 assists a game - without enough scoring to back this offense, a point made repeatedly in the first half of this season, and a marked decline in defensive effort - isn't going to get it done.

If he starts scoring, and discovers some renewed interest in defending, perhaps.

Today? Not even close.

Nor does it matter. This remains, I believe, a team game. Individual honors are for people who don't grasp that fact.

This topic is about individual honors though. An obviety like "basketball is a team game" on a thread where we're discussing Hofs doesn't make much sense...

Anyway, I believe Rondo has to keep this pace for another few years to prove himself an Hof. But his records are already deserving going by the book. At this point, it would surprise me more if he didn't enter the Hof than if he eventually did. (Another ring would help!)

Since people seem to think Rondo was already a HoF worthy star in 2009, I guess if Greivis Vasquez keeps up his work from this season, we'll be discussing his HoF bid in 3-4 years or so?

Did someone on this thread suggest that (Rondo was already a HoF worthy star in 2009)?

I think I missed that.

I certainly don't see that suggested in Juneauz comment.

Is there a point to your comment?  Are you just creating a straw man for fun?

[manl_lui]

1x NBA Champion
Averages a triple double in first series against Bulls
Finals trip twice
2nd longest assist streak in NBA history with the HOFers in Magic Johnson and Stockton

if he continue this (even when KG and PP are gone), he will be

hopefully he'll stay for a rebuild if Danny doesn't trade him

[kozlodoev]

Did someone on this thread suggest that (Rondo was already a HoF worthy star in 2009)?

I think I missed that.

I certainly don't see that suggested in Juneauz comment.

Is there a point to your comment?  Are you just creating a straw man for fun?

I like creating straw men. The ability to successfully defeat a straw man argument is the first sign you're on to something. But I digress.

In any case, people challenged my Claim that Rondo was but a role player at least up to the 2008-09 season. I just wanted to point out that the difference between that year's Rondo and this year's Vasquez is pretty much not having three go-to players on the roster.

[Celtics18]

In a word, no.

11 assists a game - without enough scoring to back this offense, a point made repeatedly in the first half of this season, and a marked decline in defensive effort - isn't going to get it done.

If he starts scoring, and discovers some renewed interest in defending, perhaps.

Today? Not even close.

Nor does it matter. This remains, I believe, a team game. Individual honors are for people who don't grasp that fact.

This topic is about individual honors though. An obviety like "basketball is a team game" on a thread where we're discussing Hofs doesn't make much sense...

Anyway, I believe Rondo has to keep this pace for another few years to prove himself an Hof. But his records are already deserving going by the book. At this point, it would surprise me more if he didn't enter the Hof than if he eventually did. (Another ring would help!)

Since people seem to think Rondo was already a HoF worthy star in 2009, I guess if Greivis Vasquez keeps up his work from this season, we'll be discussing his HoF bid in 3-4 years or so?

If Greivis Vasquez contributes to a championship and leads his team to an additional conference title and two conference championship appearances over that stretch, then we might start discussing his chances.

Uh-huh. Because that's precisely what Rondo was going to do with the 2013 Hornets if he were their starting PG.

Luckily, Rajon Rondo doesn't play for the Hornets.  The fact that he plays for the Celtics, a team that has been very successful during his tenure thus far, is going to help his legacy when all is said and done. 

That may not be fair to Greivis Vasquez, but that's life.  If Anthony Davis can become the dominant player that he's supposed to be and together with Vasquez, they form a duo that makes the Hornets contenders for the next five seasons and Greivis has his biggest performances on the biggest stages, then, who knows?

Personally, I don't think Vasquez is as talented as Rondo, but he had a really nice season for a sophomore this past season.  We'll see how he progresses. 

[kozlodoev]

1x NBA Champion
Averages a triple double in first series against Bulls
Finals trip twice
2nd longest assist streak in NBA history with the HOFers in Magic Johnson and Stockton

Is that all it takes to be a HoF these days? The bar has gone down quite a bit.

Also, he didn't really average a triple-double in that series.

[nickagneta]

Did someone on this thread suggest that (Rondo was already a HoF worthy star in 2009)?

I think I missed that.

I certainly don't see that suggested in Juneauz comment.

Is there a point to your comment?  Are you just creating a straw man for fun?

I like creating straw men. The ability to successfully defeat a straw man argument is the first sign you're on to something. But I digress.

In any case, people challenged my Claim that Rondo was but a role player at least up to the 2008-09 season. I just wanted to point out that the difference between that year's Rondo and this year's Vasquez is pretty much not having three go-to players on the roster.

And going deep in the playoffs and being a star in the playoffs. Yeah there's that little difference too.

[mmmmm]

Did someone on this thread suggest that (Rondo was already a HoF worthy star in 2009)?

I think I missed that.

I certainly don't see that suggested in Juneauz comment.

Is there a point to your comment?  Are you just creating a straw man for fun?

I like creating straw men. The ability to successfully defeat a straw man argument is the first sign you're on to something. But I digress.

In any case, people challenged my Claim that Rondo was but a role player at least up to the 2008-09 season. I just wanted to point out that the difference between that year's Rondo and this year's Vasquez is pretty much not having three go-to players on the roster.

Then why don't you actually _say_ your point instead of trying to be overly clever and snarky and propping up obvious straw men?

Bad luck for Vasquez that this season he did not have as strong a roster as Rondo had 5 years ago.   

Does that make Vasquez a role player?  'Don't think so.   That just means his team wasn't a championship team this season.   Vasquez clearly was more than a 'role player' on his team.

It says nothing long term about either his OR Rondo's chances at making it to the HoF.   Maybe Vasquez will have a super strong team around him 2 or 3 years from now.

[pearljammer10]

To suggest that Rondo is not on track to be a hall of fame player based on his current resume and the fact that he still has 5 years of his prime is just silly.

Could another injury derail him or could his production rate completely slow down? Absolutely. But based on what we have seen, if he is healthy, it is mind boggling to think he wouldnt be in HOF discussion.

[BballTim]

In a word, no.

11 assists a game - without enough scoring to back this offense, a point made repeatedly in the first half of this season, and a marked decline in defensive effort - isn't going to get it done.

If he starts scoring, and discovers some renewed interest in defending, perhaps.

Today? Not even close.

Nor does it matter. This remains, I believe, a team game. Individual honors are for people who don't grasp that fact.

  Sure it's a team game, but most people grasp the fact that team games have individual honors. That's all the discussion is about. There's also something else than many people grasp and others have started to notice.

  See the team that's struggling mightily to score against one of the worst defensive teams in the playoffs? Trade the current Jeff Green for the rusty one coming back  from injury and a year away from the game and you'd have the team Rondo was working with earlier this year. Still surprised they weren't scoring like the Thunder or the Heat? Thrown in the defense we were playing when KG was on the bench, still surprised we were 20-23?

[BballTim]

Did someone on this thread suggest that (Rondo was already a HoF worthy star in 2009)?

I think I missed that.

I certainly don't see that suggested in Juneauz comment.

Is there a point to your comment?  Are you just creating a straw man for fun?

I like creating straw men. The ability to successfully defeat a straw man argument is the first sign you're on to something. But I digress.

In any case, people challenged my Claim that Rondo was but a role player at least up to the 2008-09 season. I just wanted to point out that the difference between that year's Rondo and this year's Vasquez is pretty much not having three go-to players on the roster.

  Obviously having three go-to players on the roster with you will cause your stats to decrease. People always claim that Rondo having great teammates makes him more productive when the opposite is true *much* more often than not.

[Moranis]

Did someone on this thread suggest that (Rondo was already a HoF worthy star in 2009)?

I think I missed that.

I certainly don't see that suggested in Juneauz comment.

Is there a point to your comment?  Are you just creating a straw man for fun?

I like creating straw men. The ability to successfully defeat a straw man argument is the first sign you're on to something. But I digress.

In any case, people challenged my Claim that Rondo was but a role player at least up to the 2008-09 season. I just wanted to point out that the difference between that year's Rondo and this year's Vasquez is pretty much not having three go-to players on the roster.

  Obviously having three go-to players on the roster with you will cause your stats to decrease. People always claim that Rondo having great teammates makes him more productive when the opposite is true *much* more often than not.

It will diminish certain stats, like say scoring, but certain stats will increase, you know like assists.

[BballTim]

Did someone on this thread suggest that (Rondo was already a HoF worthy star in 2009)?

I think I missed that.

I certainly don't see that suggested in Juneauz comment.

Is there a point to your comment?  Are you just creating a straw man for fun?

I like creating straw men. The ability to successfully defeat a straw man argument is the first sign you're on to something. But I digress.

In any case, people challenged my Claim that Rondo was but a role player at least up to the 2008-09 season. I just wanted to point out that the difference between that year's Rondo and this year's Vasquez is pretty much not having three go-to players on the roster.

  Obviously having three go-to players on the roster with you will cause your stats to decrease. People always claim that Rondo having great teammates makes him more productive when the opposite is true *much* more often than not.

It will diminish certain stats, like say scoring, but certain stats will increase, you know like assists.

  Do you have any evidence to back that up? I'd guess that PP/RA/KG combined for more assists than any 2-3-4 combination other than LeBron and Wade over the last 4-5 years. Rondo giving the ball to KG or PP is much more likely to result in another pass than a shot compared to other forwards on other teams. Look a Chris Paul and Steve Nash, clearly they aren't racking up more assists than they would on worse teams when they controlled the offense more than they do.

[LooseCannon]

Everyone missing Tim Duncan, who is considered by the NBA as an international player.

By far.

He has a US citizenship, though.

Why is Hakeem (born and raised in Nigeria) not in this discussion?

I'm sorry, all due respect to Dirk, Tim, Tony, et. al., but The Dream would easily get my vote over any of them.

Usually, when people talk about international players, they mean foreign-born players whose pre-NBA experience came from foreign pro leagues and not from US colleges.  So, player like Olajuwon and Duncan don't come up.