2011 CB Historical Draft - Draft Thread

[Fafnir]

Or if Big Ben still didn't have the size, I'd trot out Elton Brand, who had the physical size and athleticism to keep Moses at bay.

That is a funny line -- way too much credit to Brand's defense and nowhere near enough credit to Moses Malone two time MVP's brilliance.

Moses Malone would slaughter Elton Brand. Bloody murder.

lol...it wouldn't be that bad.

I don't think that Elton Brand gets enough credit for playing in Clipperland.

Elton Brand used his size well and was very nimble and effective around the basket.

Was never afraid to mix it up, unlike today's Bigs.

Blake Griffin can run and dunk and he's the next Great Thing, lol....he hasn't gotten dirty like Elton did.

Elton Brand is probably your worst defensive big man though. Depends on how you view Ralph Sampson.

[Moranis]

Or if Big Ben still didn't have the size, I'd trot out Elton Brand, who had the physical size and athleticism to keep Moses at bay.

That is a funny line -- way too much credit to Brand's defense and nowhere near enough credit to Moses Malone two time MVP's brilliance.

Moses Malone would slaughter Elton Brand. Bloody murder.

Moses has 3 MVP's 78-79 and then back to back in 81-82 and 82-83

[indeedproceed]

And for Moses' size? I have Ben Wallace.

There's just no way that works.

The amount that Wallace could "limit" Moses doesn't come anywhere near enough to make up for the discrepancy between what Wallace can bring to your offensively and what Moses will.

Ben Wallace bring things offensively? Does he role out the balls?

Sure it works - just in the same way that many of us here gave Perk much props for keeping Dwight Howard from his sweet spots.

Ben Wallace was just that strong. I have no doubt in my mind that his size and strength coupled with his athleticism, would create problems for Moses.

And my team could very well cover up for Ben Wallace's offensive issues...Ben would play PF in a matchup with Moses in this setting, and Kareem (or KG) would guard McAdoo.

Or if Big Ben still didn't have the size, I'd trot out Elton Brand, who had the physical size and athleticism to keep Moses at bay.

Plus - with Elton Brand, Moses would have to work defensively. Elton was a Beast on the blocks for many years in Clipperland.

Granted, I've never seen Moses Malone play an entire game of basketball, but I have seen lots of Elton Brand and Ben Wallace games..and it occurs to me in the same way that it occurs to me with the Charles Barkley debates..if it was that easy to limit or counter-act Moses Malone..wouldn't people have tried that to a sufficient end?

Moses Malone played the majority of prime during a physical era of basketball with modern-era level athletes (a claim neither Kareem, Wilt, or Russell can make), and during that time he managed to average 24.5 points and 13.6 rebounds while shooting roughly 50% from the field.

But I thought that we were doing away with conventional wisdom for this draft.

And looking at Wilt, Kareem or Russell...as far as their skillsets - you'd have to agree that they could compete and in many cases dominate, even today. Even in the late 80's or 90's.

Don't forget that Kareem played in the same era as Bill Walton, Nate Thurmond, etc...all GREAT Centers.

Wilt alone was nearly as physically strong as Shaq...just a mountain of a man.

Kareem's skyhook was money even into the late 80s. Not many could stop him from scoring.

Bill Rusell? He had the intelligence, timing and athleticism to compete today, too.

Oh, I'm not contending that Russell, Kareem, Wilt, Walton, etc wouldn't be able to compete. I'm saying, Moses Malone did it night in night out against better average size and athleticism than those guys saw during their primes.

[Fafnir]

Oh, I'm not contending that Russell, Kareem, Wilt, Walton, etc wouldn't be able to compete. I'm saying, Moses Malone did it night in night out against better average size and athleticism than those guys saw during their primes.

Moses and Kareem didn't exactly play in all that different of eras IP.

Moses was only 6 years younger, signifigant overlap in their primes, especially with how extended of a prime the two had.

Same thing with Walton (3 years younger), though obviously he could never get on the court.

[GreenFaith1819]

Wilt will school Hakeem and Kareem. Wilt schooled everybody and on my team he has McHale, a luxery he didn't have while playing.

But who plays Hakeem on the other end? And how do you think they fare?

Wilt. Don't forget Wilt was a premier defender and in the twilight of his career, he helped LA beat Milwaukee in the play-offs, limiting the at his peak Kareem, who in my mind is the equal of Hakeem.

Wilt also lost to Kareem.

Wilt took two out of three.

So with Seattle, how does Cowens guard McHale? LA, is Ben Wallace going to guard McHale?

See - that's the beauty of this all. McHale would be a handful for Ben Wallace. My best bet vs McHale (Prime) is...well...pray .

But seriously I'd use 03-04 KG's quickness on him..or JO Prime's size. Either of those two could slow him down.

On a side note - not 100% sure if this is the right clip, but from what I've seen of past footage it appears to me at least that it was our own Kevin McHale that seemed to have the best games 1 on 1 vs Hakeem back in the 86 Finals:

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=kevin+mchale+vs+olajuwon&aq=f

There looks to be a total of roughly 40 min worth of video there, and from the bit that I've seen Prime McHale gave even the great Olajuwon fits.

[RebusRankin]

Wilt will school Hakeem and Kareem. Wilt schooled everybody and on my team he has McHale, a luxery he didn't have while playing.

But who plays Hakeem on the other end? And how do you think they fare?

Wilt. Don't forget Wilt was a premier defender and in the twilight of his career, he helped LA beat Milwaukee in the play-offs, limiting the at his peak Kareem, who in my mind is the equal of Hakeem.

Wilt also lost to Kareem.

Wilt took two out of three.

Huh? They only met twice in the playoffs.

My mistake thought they also met in 73.

[Moranis]

Oh, I'm not contending that Russell, Kareem, Wilt, Walton, etc wouldn't be able to compete. I'm saying, Moses Malone did it night in night out against better average size and athleticism than those guys saw during their primes.

Moses and Kareem didn't exactly play in all that different of eras IP.

Moses was only 6 years younger, signifigant overlap in their primes, especially with how extended of a prime the two had.

Same thing with Walton, though obviously he could never get on the court.

Moses is 8 years younger then Kareem.  

EDIT:  By the time Moses entered the league Kareem had already won 4 MVP's and would win his 5th in the Moses' rookie season.  To say they had a significant overlap in their primes just isn't reality.  Kareem was most definitely the generation before Moses. 

[Who]

Or if Big Ben still didn't have the size, I'd trot out Elton Brand, who had the physical size and athleticism to keep Moses at bay.

That is a funny line -- way too much credit to Brand's defense and nowhere near enough credit to Moses Malone (edit) three time MVP's brilliance.

Moses Malone would slaughter Elton Brand. Bloody murder.

Moses has 3 MVP's 78-79 and then back to back in 81-82 and 82-83

My mistake

[RebusRankin]

Ok, now KG on McHale, that would slow him down and be a battle. Don't see it with JO.

[Fafnir]

Oh, I'm not contending that Russell, Kareem, Wilt, Walton, etc wouldn't be able to compete. I'm saying, Moses Malone did it night in night out against better average size and athleticism than those guys saw during their primes.

Moses and Kareem didn't exactly play in all that different of eras IP.

Moses was only 6 years younger, signifigant overlap in their primes, especially with how extended of a prime the two had.

Same thing with Walton, though obviously he could never get on the court.

Moses is 8 years younger then Kareem.  

Yeah had that wrong, still they were playing against the same players for much of their careers.

[GreenFaith1819]

I'd say that my Bigs are very capable vs just about any matchup here, but MAN looking at these 86 clips of McHale he was just BEASTLY........

That one move vs Ralph Sampson..I think Ralph went for the rafters.

How do you defend someone with that many moves? It is truly difficult.

[Moranis]

Oh, I'm not contending that Russell, Kareem, Wilt, Walton, etc wouldn't be able to compete. I'm saying, Moses Malone did it night in night out against better average size and athleticism than those guys saw during their primes.

Moses and Kareem didn't exactly play in all that different of eras IP.

Moses was only 6 years younger, signifigant overlap in their primes, especially with how extended of a prime the two had.

Same thing with Walton, though obviously he could never get on the court.

Moses is 8 years younger then Kareem.  

Yeah had that wrong, still they were playing against the same players for much of their careers.

As I said above in my edit.  Kareem had won 4 MVP's before Moses ever stepped foot in the league and won his 5th in Moses' rookie season.  They didn't really have much overlap in those situations.

Moses was much more a product of the 80's, while Kareem was the 70's through and through.  Sure they had some overlap, but you always overlap with the prior generation.  8 years is a big difference in basketball life.  

[indeedproceed]

Oh, I'm not contending that Russell, Kareem, Wilt, Walton, etc wouldn't be able to compete. I'm saying, Moses Malone did it night in night out against better average size and athleticism than those guys saw during their primes.

Moses and Kareem didn't exactly play in all that different of eras IP.

Moses was only 6 years younger, signifigant overlap in their primes, especially with how extended of a prime the two had.

Same thing with Walton, though obviously he could never get on the court.

If he's talking about taking 70/71 Kareem, thats a pretty significantly different era than Moses Malone.

I figure Malone's 10 yr prime to be 78-79 to 88-89

I figure Kareem's to be (checking basketball-reference.com)...

A nearly 20 year reign of relative dominance? Sheesh.

I do think however that bringing up the difference in eras of the 70's (where Kareem was scoring 35 points and grabbing 17 boards a game) to the 80's (where Kareem still scored, but lost significant #'s on his boards and blocks) is a valid point.  

[Rondo2287]

Wilt will school Hakeem and Kareem. Wilt schooled everybody and on my team he has McHale, a luxery he didn't have while playing.

Wilt also never played against a player as offensively gifted as Hakeem. A luxury he did have.

Shaq will take all three, none of them has the mass to take care of shaq.  and back in the day shaq was also pretty quick

Wilt was Shaq with better skills.

This is a no brainer for me

[Fafnir]

 
EDIT:  By the time Moses entered the league Kareem had already won 4 MVP's and would win his 5th in the Moses' rookie season.  To say they had a significant overlap in their primes just isn't reality.  Kareem was most definitely the generation before Moses. 

Well I'm glad you're the authority on basketball reality.