2011 CB Historical Draft - Draft Thread

[GreenFaith1819]

If you want to keep Hakeem out of the top tier I understand, but there should be a tier 1A then:
http://houston.sbnation.com/houston-rockets/2011/6/4/2206467/in-the-hakeem-olajuwon-vs-shaquille-oneal-debate-the-dream-remains

See...this is where I am honestly conflicted.

Hakeem had the quickness and athleticism of ANY Center in that top tier.

He had an array of moves that nearly rivaled McHale.

Defensively? In his prime I like to compare him to KG, in that he could guard ANY position on the floor.

Titles? Well he won two of them. I guess when you look at the entire package he may not have as many of those as the top tier group.

But last year I vividly remember arguing that Hakeem Olajuwon was the most polished center - ever. He had no weaknesses, IMO.

He had good length and size, too. He battled Shaq to quite a few standstills.

But Hakeem 1-1 vs Russell? Wilt? Kareem? Man that would be a sight to see. There has got to be tech out there that can simulate that.

[StartOrien]

If you want to keep Hakeem out of the top tier I understand, but there should be a tier 1A then:
http://houston.sbnation.com/houston-rockets/2011/6/4/2206467/in-the-hakeem-olajuwon-vs-shaquille-oneal-debate-the-dream-remains

Ya, I stopped reading this when 'put the crack pipe down' was put in bold.

[Who]

The reason why I am ranking Bill Walton so highly.

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I think the combination of excellent defense (best defender in the league) + excellent rebounding (best rebounder in the league) + excellent passing (best passing big man of all-time) + efficient and highly skilled scoring (second option level scoring) is one hell of a package.

I consider Bill Walton to be one of the greatest facilitators in the History of this league. With Bill Russell being the greatest.

And in that particular season, I think Bill Walton had the best non-Russell facilitator season for a big man ever (note: Magic Johnson only perimeter player who I consider to rival it).

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I was hugely impressed by the way he led that young Portland team to an NBA Title + how Walton thoroughly dominated the Finals with his assortment of skills against an explosive Phily team that had a bunch of talented perimeter scorers such as Julius Erving, George McGinnis, Doug Collins and World B. Free.

Just watching those games, the Finals, and how Walton was dominating, I mean he controlled absolutely everything. The way he led that team to victory was a heck of a sight.

[GreenFaith1819]

I am guessing that maybe Bill Russell and David Robinson had the kind of footspeed needed to do a chase down block like number 10, but I am not sure about Kareem or Wilt.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GCyU0sKxqI

But Olajuwon didn't have The Skyhook .

That beautiful skyhook was effective even into Kareem's latter years. The man was 42 averaging 10 pts.

[Roy H.]

I consider Bill Walton to be one of the greatest facilitators in the History of this league. With Bill Russell being the greatest.

And in that particular season, I think Bill Walton had the best non-Russell facilitator season for a big man ever (note: Magic Johnson only perimeter player who I consider to rival it).

I'm genuinely shocked by this.  With all the great PGs in history, and SFs like Bird and Lebron who were amazing passers, you rate Walton at worst #3 all time?  He obviously had a very good season, but even if you ignore the 17 games he missed, is the 3.8 assists per game really enough to make him the 2nd or 3rd best facilitator of all-time, especially with his fairly pedestrian 18.6 points per game?

Obviously, you think the answer is yes.  Me, I'd much prefer Olajuwon or Robinson (29.8 points and 4.8 assists, in a much stronger era).  Maybe it's a difference in exposure to Walton, but I'd put his as on-par or below that of the great centers of the 80s and 90s.

[barefacedmonk]

Talking about centers...Shaq offers his opinion on the subject:

One of the game's greatest centers considers Kareem Abdul-Jabbar to be the best to ever play the position. And, excluding himself from the conversation, O'Neal considers Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain, Hakeem Olajuwon and David Robinson to be among the top five centers of all time.

Link

[StartOrien]

I'd be interested to hear other people's opinions on this, I've gotta give it some thought myself:

Apex of their careers would you take David Robinson or Patrick Ewing?

[Roy H.]

I'd be interested to hear other people's opinions on this, I've gotta give it some thought myself:

Apex of their careers would you take David Robinson or Patrick Ewing?

I'd take the Admiral.  I think Robinson had a higher peak both in terms of offense and defense, and he was a better passer.  For whatever it's worth, Ewing only made the All-NBA 1st team once; Robinson did it four times (in an era of legitimately great centers).

[StartOrien]

I ask, and I think I'd agree with you Roy, because it does seem as if Robinson is almost always on anyones list and Ewing is almost always left out.

[Bahku]

I've finished my tweaking and summaries for my team, (for the most part), changing a couple of the years, which significantly improved the team, (especially from behind the arc, which I'm sure you'll notice). I'll be gone for a couple of hours, but will be back later this evening and will answer any questions posed.

Thanks so much for considering my (incredibly fast and prolific) team!

The link to my team's profile is here.

[GreenFaith1819]

Also - we're talking about great centers - please don't forget The A-Train and Nate Thurmond.

Both Nate and Artis Gilmore are rather under-rated, IMO.

Just a small clip on some footage from A Train:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iS1GJ5wxyTc&feature=related

[Roy H.]

Also - we're talking about great centers - please don't forget The A-Train and Nate Thurmond.

Both Nate and Artis Gilmore are rather under-rated, IMO.

Just a small clip on some footage from A Train:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iS1GJ5wxyTc&feature=related

No doubt.  Both were legitimately great players. 

[KCattheStripe]

Also - we're talking about great centers - please don't forget The A-Train and Nate Thurmond.

Both Nate and Artis Gilmore are rather under-rated, IMO.

Just a small clip on some footage from A Train:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iS1GJ5wxyTc&feature=related

No doubt.  Both were legitimately great players.  

The moral of the story is that centers in the 60s/70s/80s/90s were way better than they are now.

[Roy H.]

I will say that, by a fairly significant margin, my favorite team is Redz'.  Call that mod bias, call that me sticking up for a friend, call that whatever you want, but I calls it like I see it.

I just think Portland has the best balance of offense, defense, ball-handling, ball movement, individual greatness, diversity of talent, clutch play, and fit.  There are a lot of great teams, but Portland looks the most like a team to me.  

So, my individual awards (not that anybody cares, since I'm no longer a panelist):

1.  Best team: Portland Trailblazers

2.  Best defensive team:  LA Lakers

3.  Best offensive team:  Denver Nuggets

4.  Best passing team: Portland (based upon it's front court starters)

5.  Best starting backcourt:  Chicago Bulls

6.  Best starting big men:  LA Lakers

7.  Most likeable team: Portland Trailblazers (I'm a sucker for Larry)

8.  Quickest team / scariest "small ball" team: Philadelphia 76ers

9.  Most talented team:  Miami Heat

10.  Most athletic team:  Tie:  Denver Nuggets & Dallas Mavericks

11.  Best three-point shooting team:  Indiana Pacers

12.  Most underrated team (including by me):  Atlanta Hawks

13.  Most underrated team that belongs in the top four:  Seattle SuperSonics

14.  Team that I should like, but for whatever reason I don't:  Memphis Grizzlies (it's the Lebron bias, I think)

15.  Team that I love and hate at the same time:  Boston Celtics  (Havlicek?  Tommy?  Duncan?  Love 'em!  Iverson?  Carter?  Hate 'em!)

As for anybody who took offense to these rankings:  sorry, guys.  Other than "best overall" and maybe "best defense", I spent about five minutes total on these superlatives.

[GreenFaith1819]

Also - we're talking about great centers - please don't forget The A-Train and Nate Thurmond.

Both Nate and Artis Gilmore are rather under-rated, IMO.

Just a small clip on some footage from A Train:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iS1GJ5wxyTc&feature=related

No doubt.  Both were legitimately great players.  

The moral of the story is that centers in the 60s/70s/80s/90s were way better than they are now.

And that makes me sad, indeed.

I love seeing quality Bigs...I am so disappointed that players like Oden and Yao couldn't remain healthy...it's not their fault, though.

Yao was a beast when he was injury-free. Just a strong, smart, Big. Not terribly athletic, but at 7'6" he's more athletic than me .

Hopefully Bynum can maintain some level of health, too.

Tyson Chandler is a an elite Defensive Center....hopefully our own Perk can come back healhier next season...Man I'd love to see Perkins get some props next season as maybe a 2nd Team Defensive Center or even 3rd team?

Just stay healthy, Perk!