2011 CB Historical Draft - Draft Thread

[GreenFaith1819]

And for Moses' size? I have Ben Wallace.

There's just no way that works.

The amount that Wallace could "limit" Moses doesn't come anywhere near enough to make up for the discrepancy between what Wallace can bring to your offensively and what Moses will.

Ben Wallace bring things offensively? Does he role out the balls?

Sure it works - just in the same way that many of us here gave Perk much props for keeping Dwight Howard from his sweet spots.

Ben Wallace was just that strong. I have no doubt in my mind that his size and strength coupled with his athleticism, would create problems for Moses.

And my team could very well cover up for Ben Wallace's offensive issues...Ben would play PF in a matchup with Moses in this setting, and Kareem (or KG) would guard McAdoo.

Or if Big Ben still didn't have the size, I'd trot out Elton Brand, who had the physical size and athleticism to keep Moses at bay.

Plus - with Elton Brand, Moses would have to work defensively. Elton was a Beast on the blocks for many years in Clipperland.

[GreenFaith1819]

I love flexibility.

[StartOrien]

Sure it works - just in the sam way that many of us here gave Perk much props for keeping Dwight Howard from his sweet spots.

Dwight Howards teammates were Jameer Nelson, JJ Reddick, Mickael Pietrus and Rashard Lewis.

In this format, no matter how you look at it you're looking at a scoring discrepancy of at least fifteen - twenty points per 36 between Ben Wallace and whoever he's defending.

You need to make up for that in four other spots, and there's no way to do it when teams are made up of the league's all time best.

[Fafnir]

And for Moses' size? I have Ben Wallace.

There's just no way that works.

Moses will tune up Ben Wallace.

Yeah, Wallace wouldn't have a quickness advantage and would be at a size disadvantage. Moses was also a better rebounder as well. Plus Moses wouldn't have to guard him, thus making it very easy on him on the other end.

[Fafnir]

Sure it works - just in the sam way that many of us here gave Perk much props for keeping Dwight Howard from his sweet spots.

Dwight Howards teammates were Jameer Nelson, JJ Reddick, Mickael Pietrus and Rashard Lewis.

In this format, no matter how you look at it you're looking at a scoring discrepancy of at least fifteen - twenty points per 36 between Ben Wallace and whoever he's defending.
 
You need to make up for that in four other spots, and there's no way to do it when teams are made up of the league's all time best.

Won't Wallace be the fourth or fifth big man off the bench in this format? I mean Kareem, KG, O'Neal, and in many matchups Brand will all be ahead of him.

A scoring differential won't be that huge in limited minutes.

[StartOrien]

Sure it works - just in the sam way that many of us here gave Perk much props for keeping Dwight Howard from his sweet spots.

Dwight Howards teammates were Jameer Nelson, JJ Reddick, Mickael Pietrus and Rashard Lewis.

In this format, no matter how you look at it you're looking at a scoring discrepancy of at least fifteen - twenty points per 36 between Ben Wallace and whoever he's defending.
 
You need to make up for that in four other spots, and there's no way to do it when teams are made up of the league's all time best.

Won't Wallace be the fourth or fifth big man off the bench in this format?

A scoring differential won't be that huge in limited minutes.

That's why I through the per 36 out there. I appreciate what Ben Wallace did as a player, but in this format he can't see regular minutes. Even at 10 minutes, you're looking up at a discrepancy of 5 or so.

And that's without factoring in what you pointed out, Who, in that you're allowing for an NBA Legend to roam defensively.

[mgent]

And for Moses' size? I have Ben Wallace.

There's just no way that works.

I actually think Moses is one of the few guys that Wallace could affect.  Guys like Wilt and Kareem would never miss throwing hook shots over his head.

[wdleehi]

Sure it works - just in the sam way that many of us here gave Perk much props for keeping Dwight Howard from his sweet spots.

Dwight Howards teammates were Jameer Nelson, JJ Reddick, Mickael Pietrus and Rashard Lewis.

In this format, no matter how you look at it you're looking at a scoring discrepancy of at least fifteen - twenty points per 36 between Ben Wallace and whoever he's defending.
 
You need to make up for that in four other spots, and there's no way to do it when teams are made up of the league's all time best.

Won't Wallace be the fourth or fifth big man off the bench in this format? I mean Kareem, KG, O'Neal, and in many matchups Brand will all be ahead of him.

A scoring differential won't be that huge in limited minutes.

Wallace could be a strong weakside defender at the PF spot in this game with limited minutes.  


Would not throw him out there against any of the offensive C.  They will eat him alive.  

[Fafnir]

Sure it works - just in the sam way that many of us here gave Perk much props for keeping Dwight Howard from his sweet spots.

Dwight Howards teammates were Jameer Nelson, JJ Reddick, Mickael Pietrus and Rashard Lewis.

In this format, no matter how you look at it you're looking at a scoring discrepancy of at least fifteen - twenty points per 36 between Ben Wallace and whoever he's defending.
 
You need to make up for that in four other spots, and there's no way to do it when teams are made up of the league's all time best.

Won't Wallace be the fourth or fifth big man off the bench in this format?

A scoring differential won't be that huge in limited minutes.

That's why I through the per 36 out there. I appreciate what Ben Wallace did as a player, but in this format he can't see regular minutes.

The throwing of per 36 mintues distorts the issue, makes it appear much larger than it actually is.

Very misleading based on the role I anticpate Wallace being used for.

[wdleehi]

I firmly believe the Memphis Grizzlies are the most complete team.  Superb mix of offense and defense in the starting unit and what every team needs on its bench, whether it is lock down defense, highly efficient scoring machines, elite level rebounding, and solid all around players capable of starting.  No team has the overall mix and versatility of the Memphis Grizzlies.

How do you see yourself defending against the Shaq's of the league? The Hakeems, or Chamberlains?

Or the Kareems?

One thing that is pretty shocking: http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=abdulka01&p2=malonmo01

I know that's gotta be wrong. How did Moses Malone and Kareem not play each other once between 1976 and 1986??

85-86 seems to be the first year Basketball-Reference offers a game log.

Very interesting....I'd say it was roughly a wash for Kareem vs Moses, with the exception of rebounds. I'd say that Moses' size probably caused Kareem some problems.

Hakeem vs Kareem? Another wash, IMO:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=abdulka01&p2=olajuha01

What I'm proud of is that Kareem was well into his latter years vs both of these two.

Now....the 70-71 Kareem? I'd say he'd be an even tougher matchup for both Moses and Hakeem.

Let's not forget that with Hakeem - he had a lot of help for Kareem from Ralph Sampson, especially in 86'.

And for Moses' size? I have Ben Wallace.

For Hakeem's quickness? I have 03-04 KG.

Wallace is not going to stop Moses.  

[StartOrien]

Sure it works - just in the sam way that many of us here gave Perk much props for keeping Dwight Howard from his sweet spots.

Dwight Howards teammates were Jameer Nelson, JJ Reddick, Mickael Pietrus and Rashard Lewis.

In this format, no matter how you look at it you're looking at a scoring discrepancy of at least fifteen - twenty points per 36 between Ben Wallace and whoever he's defending.
 
You need to make up for that in four other spots, and there's no way to do it when teams are made up of the league's all time best.

Won't Wallace be the fourth or fifth big man off the bench in this format?

A scoring differential won't be that huge in limited minutes.

That's why I through the per 36 out there. I appreciate what Ben Wallace did as a player, but in this format he can't see regular minutes.

The throwing of per 36 mintues distorts the issue, makes it appear much larger than it actually is.

Very misleading based on the role I anticpate Wallace being used for.

I apologize, I didn't mean for it to be misleading by any means.

[Moranis]

And for Moses' size? I have Ben Wallace.

There's just no way that works.

Moses will tune up Ben Wallace.

Yeah, Wallace wouldn't have a quickness advantage and would be at a size disadvantage. Moses was also a better rebounder as well. Plus Moses wouldn't have to guard him, thus making it very easy on him on the other end.

If he goes with Ben Wallace and Kareem, then McAdoo is guarding Wallace and Moses is guarding Kareem.  If it is Wallace and KG, I will keep McAdoo on KG, but will simply double him if he gets by McAdoo with Moses.  

Ben Wallace should get no where near Moses Malone.  Moses would destroy him.  If Kareem could barely slow Moses down, Wallace has no shot.  If Daugherty is in the game, then I might expect to see Ben Wallace.

[indeedproceed]

And for Moses' size? I have Ben Wallace.

There's just no way that works.

The amount that Wallace could "limit" Moses doesn't come anywhere near enough to make up for the discrepancy between what Wallace can bring to your offensively and what Moses will.

Ben Wallace bring things offensively? Does he role out the balls?

Sure it works - just in the same way that many of us here gave Perk much props for keeping Dwight Howard from his sweet spots.

Ben Wallace was just that strong. I have no doubt in my mind that his size and strength coupled with his athleticism, would create problems for Moses.

And my team could very well cover up for Ben Wallace's offensive issues...Ben would play PF in a matchup with Moses in this setting, and Kareem (or KG) would guard McAdoo.

Or if Big Ben still didn't have the size, I'd trot out Elton Brand, who had the physical size and athleticism to keep Moses at bay.

Plus - with Elton Brand, Moses would have to work defensively. Elton was a Beast on the blocks for many years in Clipperland.

Granted, I've never seen Moses Malone play an entire game of basketball, but I have seen lots of Elton Brand and Ben Wallace games..and it occurs to me in the same way that it occurs to me with the Charles Barkley debates..if it was that easy to limit or counter-act Moses Malone..wouldn't people have tried that to a sufficient end?

Moses Malone played the majority of prime during a physical era of basketball with modern-era level athletes (a claim neither Kareem, Wilt, or Russell can make), and during that time he managed to average 24.5 points and 13.6 rebounds while shooting roughly 50% from the field.

[StartOrien]

I'll still contest that I don't think Ben Wallace can pay anything but spot minutes in this format.

I'm sure this'll lead to a "defense wins championships" comment, so let me pre-empt it by saying this. It's not true. Defense & Offense win championships.

[GreenFaith1819]

Sure it works - just in the sam way that many of us here gave Perk much props for keeping Dwight Howard from his sweet spots.

Dwight Howards teammates were Jameer Nelson, JJ Reddick, Mickael Pietrus and Rashard Lewis.

In this format, no matter how you look at it you're looking at a scoring discrepancy of at least fifteen - twenty points per 36 between Ben Wallace and whoever he's defending.
 
You need to make up for that in four other spots, and there's no way to do it when teams are made up of the league's all time best.

Won't Wallace be the fourth or fifth big man off the bench in this format? I mean Kareem, KG, O'Neal, and in many matchups Brand will all be ahead of him.

A scoring differential won't be that huge in limited minutes.

Exactly.

With what Wallace could help with, even in limited minutes, we could make up for from KG, Kareem, GP or Eddie/Coop from deep.

Those three alone will account for 80-90 pts, numerous steals, blocks, assists, deflections, etc.

Plus, Coop and/or Eddie Jones to spread the floor?

We have enough weapons to through at Moses, other than conventional size.

A Four Time consecutive Defensive Player of the Year? Elite Rebounder?

C'mon Ben Wallace doesn't get enough props.

And don't forget that KG played ALL spots in Sota...in limited stretches we could trot out:

C-Kareem
PF-Ben/JO
SF-Coop/Eddie
SG-KG
PG-GP

Talk about a nervous opponent. I'd be looking over my shoulder a lot if I had to play LA.