Author Topic: Is Rudy Fernandez worth a #1?  (Read 35224 times)

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Re: Is Rudy Fernandez worth a #1?
« Reply #45 on: July 27, 2010, 01:35:02 PM »

Offline xmuscularghandix

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I think Rudy is definitely worth one of our 1st round picks.

I think that we are going to have a better regular season this year, and that means we’re going to be picking lower than 19. So It’s now like we’re going to be trading away a top 10 pick for this kid, it’s basically just role players.

Re: Is Rudy Fernandez worth a #1?
« Reply #46 on: July 27, 2010, 01:39:24 PM »

Offline MBunge

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Again, it can't be stated enough: This team desperately needs a body to aleviate minutes from Paul Pierce and, to a lesser extent Ray Allen (Nate Robinson/Avery Bradley could potentially be enough).
That they do, but this guy is not Rudy Fernandez.

Let's turn the table a little bit, who should it be then? Who is a reasonable player that the Celtics could acquire to fill this void.

If Cleveland's owner wasn't fixated on winning now just to spite LeBron, Jamario Moon would be a great back up to Pierce.  With Marquis and Nate doing all the ball handling, Moon's size and athleticism at the 3 would be a good fit.

Mike

Re: Is Rudy Fernandez worth a #1?
« Reply #47 on: July 27, 2010, 02:39:05 PM »

Offline ssspence

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Again, it can't be stated enough: This team desperately needs a body to aleviate minutes from Paul Pierce and, to a lesser extent Ray Allen (Nate Robinson/Avery Bradley could potentially be enough).
That they do, but this guy is not Rudy Fernandez.

Let's turn the table a little bit, who should it be then? Who is a reasonable player that the Celtics could acquire to fill this void.

If Cleveland's owner wasn't fixated on winning now just to spite LeBron, Jamario Moon would be a great back up to Pierce.  With Marquis and Nate doing all the ball handling, Moon's size and athleticism at the 3 would be a good fit.

Mike

Sure -- anything is better than what we have. This shouldn't affect the Cs efforts to land Fernandez tho.

I'd tossed Moon out in the Shaq thread. I'd happily pay Shaq 3-4mil for a year along with Moon in exchange for Sheed's contract, a 2nd round pick and some cash. I'd also be open moving Erden in such a deal.
Mike

(My name is not Mike)

Re: Is Rudy Fernandez worth a #1?
« Reply #48 on: July 27, 2010, 03:03:05 PM »

Offline hardlyyardley

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I emailed a Trailblazer season ticket holder asking him....how good is Fernandez?......his answer

On a scale of 10
Offense 6
Defense 2
Sizzle 8

Re: Is Rudy Fernandez worth a #1?
« Reply #49 on: July 27, 2010, 03:05:49 PM »

Offline BballTim

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Again, it can't be stated enough: This team desperately needs a body to aleviate minutes from Paul Pierce and, to a lesser extent Ray Allen (Nate Robinson/Avery Bradley could potentially be enough).
That they do, but this guy is not Rudy Fernandez.

Let's turn the table a little bit, who should it be then? Who is a reasonable player that the Celtics could acquire to fill this void.

If Cleveland's owner wasn't fixated on winning now just to spite LeBron, Jamario Moon would be a great back up to Pierce.  With Marquis and Nate doing all the ball handling, Moon's size and athleticism at the 3 would be a good fit.

Mike

  HE seems to be more fixated on winning a title than an extra 4 or so games next year. Moon will help you do one but not the other.

Re: Is Rudy Fernandez worth a #1?
« Reply #50 on: July 27, 2010, 11:03:17 PM »

Offline LilRip

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kozlodoev,

just curious, have you ever seen Rudy Fernandez play? or did you just look up stats?



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Re: Is Rudy Fernandez worth a #1?
« Reply #51 on: July 27, 2010, 11:26:25 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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just curious, have you ever seen Rudy Fernandez play? or did you just look up stats?
I've seen him play -- and what I've seen does not in any way contradict the stats -- or the assessment of that Blazers STH that was posted a bit further up.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: Is Rudy Fernandez worth a #1?
« Reply #52 on: July 27, 2010, 11:34:16 PM »

Offline aporel#18

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Rudy had a bad year last year but I wouln't put him on this stiff-list yet.
So Rudy Fernandez has been for the NBA for 2 years, and one of them was "bad". Just because he's young doesn't mean he'll be the next Manu Ginobili, and we have no time to wait or spent resources to figure out whether he may be.

It's funny how people compare Rudy to Ginobili. Rudy is a more talented player than Ginobili, a better team player than Ginobili, a better passer, less me-first attitude. Manu was 23 when he arrived to Kinder Bologna. Rudy was 23 when he arrived to Portland. Manu won a Euroleague (the year Panathinaikos stayed in the FIBA competition alongside CSKA Moscow and Maccabi Tel-Aviv to name some of the best and they didn't compete against Kinder) in a team that featured Smodiz, David Andersen, Marco Jaric (he was huge for them as a young talent), a 7 footer named Rashard Griffith and the great Antoine Rigaudeau (incredible shooter). Virtus was the best Italian team with Messina as their head coach. Rudy played for Joventut, a team known for growing young talents (next one will likely be Josep Franch), who are destined to play in richer teams (like Ricky Rubio). NO comparison available.

When playing in Europe, Ginobili was successful only playing for a rich team like Kinder, with Ettore Messina. Rudy in Joventut was a warrior, an underdog but very talented leader for a young squad. Rudy's career in Europe could have been more successful than Manu's had he joined FC Barcelona like Ricky Rubio. But instead, he went to Portland. McMillan is an american coach with little knowledge of the FIBA game, he freaked out like the guys in ESPN when Rudy dunked on Superman in the Olympics, and he would have looked like a moron (like Kahn) had Rudy stayed one more year in Europe. That's why they rushed Rudy to join a young talented squad where the main ballhandler is ballhogging instead of trying to make his teammates better. Ricky Rubio, at 17 years old, was a better playmaker than Roy today, and he has a higher BBIQ as well.

While Rudy struggled to adapt to his new environment, Manu got to play under the best coach in the NBA (according to Steve Nash) who is, by thousands of miles, smarter than McMillan. On the other hand, he also found in the locker room young some unknown kids like Tim Duncan (maybe the best PF in the last 20 years) and Tony Parker, a non shooting guard who creates game for his teammates. Still, if you check basketball reference, Rudy's stats for his two years in the NBA are fairly similar to Manu's two first years in the NBA.

I don't believe many of us did know a lot about Ginobili when he played in Bologna, and I'm pretty sure virtually nobody here knew him at all when he was playing for Reggio Calabria. Rudy should have stayed in Europe and play for a big team here, and he could have won one or two Euroleague titles in the last two years. But he went to the NBA because he was a big part of the Spanish Team who won the WC in Japan, and the Silver Medal team in Beijing. He created bigger expectations, but again, like other European players, was unlucky to play for the Blazers. Drazen Petrovic had to be traded to the Nets to start having quality minutes, and he was a ****g genius.

Rudy needs a new team to start drawing comparisons with Manu. A team that features a fast, pass-first PG, with veteran teammates who can help him to find his place in the League, and a good coach. The Blazers can't offer him any of these things. The Celtics have all. Rudy is a great player, and he'll play great in the WC, as the leader of Spanish team.

I hope the Celtics can trade the 2011 first round pick plus Gaffney and Lafayette for him. After the WC, Portland may ask for more.

By the way, before you ask, Rudy is my favorite non-Celtic player, and I want him in green again  ;D

Peace


Re: Is Rudy Fernandez worth a #1?
« Reply #53 on: July 27, 2010, 11:40:50 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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It's funny how people compare Rudy to Ginobili. Rudy is a more talented player than Ginobili, a better team player than Ginobili, a better passer, less me-first attitude.
He will also be the bigger flop in terms of career, but since only time will show that, we can agree to disagree.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: Is Rudy Fernandez worth a #1?
« Reply #54 on: July 27, 2010, 11:44:19 PM »

Offline aporel#18

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It's funny how people compare Rudy to Ginobili. Rudy is a more talented player than Ginobili, a better team player than Ginobili, a better passer, less me-first attitude.
He will also be the bigger flop in terms of career, but since only time will show that, we can agree to disagree.

Rudy at 25 years old is way better than the Manu Ginobili who arrived to San Antonio at 25 years old. But we can agree to disagree, kozlodoev.  ;)

Re: Is Rudy Fernandez worth a #1?
« Reply #55 on: July 27, 2010, 11:58:54 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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It's funny how people compare Rudy to Ginobili. Rudy is a more talented player than Ginobili, a better team player than Ginobili, a better passer, less me-first attitude.
He will also be the bigger flop in terms of career, but since only time will show that, we can agree to disagree.
Rudy at 25 years old is way better than the Manu Ginobili who arrived to San Antonio at 25 years old. But we can agree to disagree, kozlodoev.  ;)
In his second season with the Spurs, Manu commanded nearly 30 minutes of playing time, posting 12 pts, 4.5 rebounds, and close to 4 assists and 2 steals per game. In his second season, Fernandez contributed significantly less on a team that isn't quite as good as the 2003 Spurs.

But again, we can agree to disagree, and time will show who is right.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: Is Rudy Fernandez worth a #1?
« Reply #56 on: July 28, 2010, 12:05:19 AM »

Offline kuhnsmith

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Hello from Portland!

You all have been discussing this Rudy deal for over a day now.  We in Pdx just got the "scoop" about an hour ago.  Teaches us to be reading your blog instead of ours!

Regarding Rudy-I have no doubt he could be a star somewhere besides here.  Our slow it down, don't make turnovers or you're benched, defend first and shoot third coaching style just doesn't work for his flashy,wide open style of play.  Unfortunately, we have a way of making players less than they could be in this town.  How about we trade Rudy and McMillan straight up for Rivers?

Re: Is Rudy Fernandez worth a #1?
« Reply #57 on: July 28, 2010, 12:15:43 AM »

Offline moiso

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I'd like Rudy on the C's but comparing him to Ginobili is wrong.  Ginobili was awesome when I watched him in his rookie year.  They are not really in the same ballpark.

Re: Is Rudy Fernandez worth a #1?
« Reply #58 on: July 28, 2010, 12:16:27 AM »

Offline aporel#18

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Hello from Portland!

You all have been discussing this Rudy deal for over a day now.  We in Pdx just got the "scoop" about an hour ago.  Teaches us to be reading your blog instead of ours!

Regarding Rudy-I have no doubt he could be a star somewhere besides here.  Our slow it down, don't make turnovers or you're benched, defend first and shoot third coaching style just doesn't work for his flashy,wide open style of play.  Unfortunately, we have a way of making players less than they could be in this town.  How about we trade Rudy and McMillan straight up for Rivers?

As much as I'd like to see Rudy in green (again), I wouldn't take McMillan, that's a trade breaker. Funny post, TP and welcome to CelticsBlog

Re: Is Rudy Fernandez worth a #1?
« Reply #59 on: July 28, 2010, 12:17:49 AM »

Offline GreenEnvy

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I would.

If we can get him and Shaq (with 'Sheed's contract), all we would need is a defensive minded 2/3 for the vet min if that exists and we are SET.

Rondo/Nate/Bradley
Ray/Rudy/vet min
Pierce/Daniels
KG/BBD
Shaq/JO/(Perk)

When Perk comes back, Bradley becomes inactive, along with Harangody and Erden.

I like it.
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