Author Topic: Is Rudy Fernandez worth a #1?  (Read 35224 times)

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Re: Is Rudy Fernandez worth a #1?
« Reply #30 on: July 27, 2010, 10:45:55 AM »

Offline StartOrien

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Again, it can't be stated enough: This team desperately needs a body to aleviate minutes from Paul Pierce and, to a lesser extent Ray Allen (Nate Robinson/Avery Bradley could potentially be enough).
That they do, but this guy is not Rudy Fernandez.

Let's turn the table a little bit, who should it be then? Who is a reasonable player that the Celtics could acquire to fill this void.

Re: Is Rudy Fernandez worth a #1?
« Reply #31 on: July 27, 2010, 11:04:34 AM »

Offline Jack_Frost

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The Trail Blazers are open to trading Rudy Fernandez, the guard told Spanish language newspaper El Mundo Deportivo.

"Portland is willing to make a trade and the truth is I'm pleased they want to do it," Fernandez told the paper.

"Now we have to find a team where I can have an important role or where I can find the dynamics I enjoyed in Portland the first year."

HoopsHype.com translated the original article.

"My agents are in the United States, they are speaking with them and if something comes up they will travel to Portland," Fernandez continued.

El Mundo Deportivo (via HoopsHype Translation)



C'mon Danny


Re: Is Rudy Fernandez worth a #1?
« Reply #32 on: July 27, 2010, 11:04:49 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Again, it can't be stated enough: This team desperately needs a body to aleviate minutes from Paul Pierce and, to a lesser extent Ray Allen (Nate Robinson/Avery Bradley could potentially be enough).
That they do, but this guy is not Rudy Fernandez.

Let's turn the table a little bit, who should it be then? Who is a reasonable player that the Celtics could acquire to fill this void.
Players that are at least as good as Fernandez and can come in as free agents: Jarvis Hayes, Bobby Simmons, Damien Wilkins. You can even argue for Larry Hughes or Keith Boggans. I am sure I am forgetting someone, too.
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Re: Is Rudy Fernandez worth a #1?
« Reply #33 on: July 27, 2010, 11:32:03 AM »

Offline ssspence

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Considering his minutes per game, every number here is solid with the exception of his 2pt fg % which would obviously improve in a system where he'd not have to stand around watching Roy pound the ball into the floor and actually get some open looks.
No matter how you slice it, a career .400 from the field is a horrible shooting percentage. And that includes a jaw-dropping .370 during the last season, so the guy has regressed in this parameter.

That this will "obviously improve" is your wild guess. Rudy Fernandez is, at best, a complementary bench player on any team, so if he doesn't know how to be effective in this role in Portland, there is no reason to believe he will be any better in Boston.


Quote
The guys makes $1mil a year. Whose stats should his look like -- Dirk's? Are you seriously comparing him to Michael Finley? He's 25 -- his best years are ahead of him -- not 6 years behind him.

What fans (and even some GMs in the NBA) fail to understand is that being young is not much in itself. What differentiates good teams from bad teams is that good teams are able to acquire what they need when they need it. At this point, the Celtics need a bench player who can hit open shots for 2 years, and as much flexibility thereafter. It doesn't really matter whether the said player is 25 or 33 today, as long as he can play the role he's needed in.

So the fact that Rudy Fernandez is not old is really not relevant. Or the fact that he "may be good in the future" -- he's not going to be a player to build around. If he were, we won't even be having a discussion of trading him for a protected first-rounder. Someone like him can be found as need arises, and when more critical signings have been made.

He plays in the slowest offense in the NBA -- which flies completely in the face of how he learned to play -- and therefore fails to get to the rim much at all. He's taking the majority of his shots from long range, which explains the similarity between his 2 and 3 pt shooting numbers.

I / 'fans' don't fail to understand what Fernandez's age means to his game, I just disagree with your assessment not to mention your ability to judge NBA talent. Your insistance that a) he can't shoot; b) he wouldn't be an improvement to the Cs bench; and c) cannot be an asset to this team next year AND potentially for many additional years; illustrate that you really haven't seen him play much, or that you have and you don't understand his game.

This is exemplified by your suggestion that his value would be equal to Michael Finley. No matter whether you think Rudy Fernandez is a above or below average NBA defender, if you watched Michael Finley last year you would likely know that he is literally unable to guard NBA players anymore (perhaps due to age?), and therefore is an enormous liablity on the floor.

Answer this: do you think any team in the NBA would trade a 1st round pick for Finley? Or: if you polled the various members of the Cs front office & staff (Ainge, Papile, McDonough, Rivers, Hill, Frank, etc), who do you believe they'd agree would be more valuable to the Cs, Fernandez or Fonley? Have you even heard a word mentioned about the possibility of them brining Finley back?

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Re: Is Rudy Fernandez worth a #1?
« Reply #34 on: July 27, 2010, 11:38:09 AM »

Offline StartOrien

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Again, it can't be stated enough: This team desperately needs a body to aleviate minutes from Paul Pierce and, to a lesser extent Ray Allen (Nate Robinson/Avery Bradley could potentially be enough).
That they do, but this guy is not Rudy Fernandez.

Let's turn the table a little bit, who should it be then? Who is a reasonable player that the Celtics could acquire to fill this void.
Players that are at least as good as Fernandez and can come in as free agents: Jarvis Hayes, Bobby Simmons, Damien Wilkins. You can even argue for Larry Hughes or Keith Boggans. I am sure I am forgetting someone, too.

I respectfully disagree with you. I think Rudy Fernandez is an upgrade over all, though I would be interested in taking a look at Damien Wilkins. But the other 2:

Bobby Simmons shot .359 from the field and .317 from behind the arc.

Jarvis Hayes is coming off a 45 game season, and in his 8 seasons has played in under 60 games 3 times.

Re: Is Rudy Fernandez worth a #1?
« Reply #35 on: July 27, 2010, 11:46:54 AM »

Offline moiso

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Again, it can't be stated enough: This team desperately needs a body to aleviate minutes from Paul Pierce and, to a lesser extent Ray Allen (Nate Robinson/Avery Bradley could potentially be enough).
That they do, but this guy is not Rudy Fernandez.

Let's turn the table a little bit, who should it be then? Who is a reasonable player that the Celtics could acquire to fill this void.
Players that are at least as good as Fernandez and can come in as free agents: Jarvis Hayes, Bobby Simmons, Damien Wilkins. You can even argue for Larry Hughes or Keith Boggans. I am sure I am forgetting someone, too.
Rudy had a bad year last year but I wouln't put him on this stiff-list yet.  Those guys have already proven they suck and all but Bogans are declining.  Rudy still has some potential to get his act together with a change of scenery and a new system.  I was very high on him after his rookie year, and I'm not ready to declare him a bust after last year.

Re: Is Rudy Fernandez worth a #1?
« Reply #36 on: July 27, 2010, 11:56:08 AM »

Offline ssspence

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Again, it can't be stated enough: This team desperately needs a body to aleviate minutes from Paul Pierce and, to a lesser extent Ray Allen (Nate Robinson/Avery Bradley could potentially be enough).
That they do, but this guy is not Rudy Fernandez.

Let's turn the table a little bit, who should it be then? Who is a reasonable player that the Celtics could acquire to fill this void.
Players that are at least as good as Fernandez and can come in as free agents: Jarvis Hayes, Bobby Simmons, Damien Wilkins. You can even argue for Larry Hughes or Keith Boggans. I am sure I am forgetting someone, too.
Rudy had a bad year last year but I wouln't put him on this stiff-list yet.  Those guys have already proven they suck and all but Bogans are declining.  Rudy still has some potential to get his act together with a change of scenery and a new system.  I was very high on him after his rookie year, and I'm not ready to declare him a bust after last year.

Bogans has regressed as well (unfortunately -- I'd be very happy to have a 2007-2008 Bogans on the team).
Mike

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Re: Is Rudy Fernandez worth a #1?
« Reply #37 on: July 27, 2010, 11:58:57 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Rudy had a bad year last year but I wouln't put him on this stiff-list yet.
So Rudy Fernandez has been for the NBA for 2 years, and one of them was "bad". Just because he's young doesn't mean he'll be the next Manu Ginobili, and we have no time to wait or spent resources to figure out whether he may be.
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Re: Is Rudy Fernandez worth a #1?
« Reply #38 on: July 27, 2010, 12:14:49 PM »

Offline ssspence

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Rudy had a bad year last year but I wouln't put him on this stiff-list yet.
So Rudy Fernandez has been for the NBA for 2 years, and one of them was "bad". Just because he's young doesn't mean he'll be the next Manu Ginobili, and we have no time to wait or spent resources to figure out whether he may be.

the question was whether fernandez is worth a 1st round pick, which is obviously a resource related to the future, not the present. so the resources spent are nil regarding waiting -- if you're looking at the short term clearly he's more valuable than 2011's 1st.

meanwhile, we have plenty of roster spots remaining, and essentially no true SGs other than Ray Allen, whose present back-up (who is also PP's back-up), a) can't shoot; and b) gets injured as frequency as the wind blows over 20mph in Gloucester.

moreover, the age of our roster causes great concern for injuries brought on by wear and tear over the long season. so NBA caliber players are required here if we hope to compete in the much improved East.

seriously -- what on earth do you mean?

 
« Last Edit: July 27, 2010, 12:23:06 PM by ssspence »
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Re: Is Rudy Fernandez worth a #1?
« Reply #39 on: July 27, 2010, 12:20:47 PM »

Offline moiso

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Rudy had a bad year last year but I wouln't put him on this stiff-list yet.
So Rudy Fernandez has been for the NBA for 2 years, and one of them was "bad". Just because he's young doesn't mean he'll be the next Manu Ginobili, and we have no time to wait or spent resources to figure out whether he may be.
I'd trade a first round pick for Manu too :)  I think next year, Fernandez would give us more than Daniels.  I don't think Fernandez is the next Ginobili, but I do think he would be a useful player for us and allow Ray to play more age-appropriate minutes.

Re: Is Rudy Fernandez worth a #1?
« Reply #40 on: July 27, 2010, 12:46:21 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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seriously -- what on earth do you mean?
He's been in the NBA for 2 seasons, both of which have been pretty mediocre. We have a veteran team that needs the best complementary players for the next 2 years. We can't afford to spend 2 years throwing playing time at someone just to figure out whether the guy is the next Manu Ginobili, or the next Jiri Welsch.

That's what I mean. It basically boils down to two things: (1) we can find better players for the next 2 years, (2) two years from now, we can easily sign a player of the quality that Fernandez will be at that point.

Or to answer the specific question, I don't think Fernandez is worth a #1.
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Re: Is Rudy Fernandez worth a #1?
« Reply #41 on: July 27, 2010, 12:56:41 PM »

Offline ssspence

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seriously -- what on earth do you mean?
He's been in the NBA for 2 seasons, both of which have been pretty mediocre. We have a veteran team that needs the best complementary players for the next 2 years. We can't afford to spend 2 years throwing playing time at someone just to figure out whether the guy is the next Manu Ginobili, or the next Jiri Welsch.

That's what I mean. It basically boils down to two things: (1) we can find better players for the next 2 years, (2) two years from now, we can easily sign a player of the quality that Fernandez will be at that point.

Or to answer the specific question, I don't think Fernandez is worth a #1.


Just don't see who those better players are. Bobby Simmons? Wilkens? They're not even in the same catagory -- both may be done in the NBA. Sadly, the Cs don't have the ammo to acquire Fernandez as it is (they've tried), so we may be left with these dregs anyway.....
Mike

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Re: Is Rudy Fernandez worth a #1?
« Reply #42 on: July 27, 2010, 12:57:52 PM »

Offline CelticHooligan3

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TP Ssspence for arguement/point and Gloucester reference lol.

Re: Is Rudy Fernandez worth a #1?
« Reply #43 on: July 27, 2010, 01:01:03 PM »

Offline Birdbrain

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Definitely worth a number one... Would you rather have Rudy or Avery right now? I go Rudy by a long shot.

Would I trade a late 1st rounder for Fernandez probably although I wouldn't trade him for Avery.  This win now concept doesn't include trading away the guy you just drafted to be SG of the future before he's ever played a game for a guy that's really done nothing in the NBA.  Rudy has a cool name and appears to have some nice talent (NO DEFENSE AT ALL) but. he's only slightly more proven than Avery.
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Re: Is Rudy Fernandez worth a #1?
« Reply #44 on: July 27, 2010, 01:03:35 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Just don't see who those better players are. Bobby Simmons? Wilkens? They're not even in the same catagory -- both may be done in the NBA. Sadly, the Cs don't have the ammo to acquire Fernandez as it is (they've tried), so we may be left with these dregs anyway.....
You're right, those "dregs" are not in the same category. They're in the category "legitimate swingmen" which actually means that they have a chance of guarding some of the SFs in the league.

Of course, if you're looking at Fernandez strictly as a Ray Allen backup, this is irrelevant, but it also expands the list of potential alternatives.
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