"We DO/DON'T Want Allen Iverson" Thread (merged)

[GreenFaith1819]

Well, however we may feel about him, his desire is undeniable.

He took a PHI team to the Finals, even though they lost to Shaq and Kobe.

I think he would fit in here, no question...get him to a team where there is an established identity...a team with Championship aspirations (still), and a need?

As a backup PG or offense off the bench he would be intriguing. Get him here with a coach like Doc, too?

I'd still prefer Delonte as the 1st option off the bench as PG (especially if he can come back healthy), but if we had a bigger need I would not discount AI.

My only concern is that our track record with older players the last few years has not been good - at all:

Sheed was hobbled with aches and pains during his time here..he played well in the playoffs, though.

Shaq? Don't want to beat that dead horse.

JO? Same thing.

It just seems as though here lately when we've tried to rely heavily on quality (but older) players, it just hasn't worked out well. This is where I am really concerned about bringing Allen Iverson in here.

AI's talent and desire could help, but can his body hold up? And if Delonte can come back healthier is there really a need for AI?

[wdleehi]

Well, however we may feel about him, his desire is undeniable.

He took a PHI team to the Finals, even though they lost to Shaq and Kobe.

I think he would fit in here, no question...get him to a team where there is an established identity...a team with Championship aspirations (still), and a need?

As a backup PG or offense off the bench he would be intriguing. Get him here with a coach like Doc, too?

I'd still prefer Delonte as the 1st option off the bench as PG (especially if he can come back healthy), but if we had a bigger need I would not discount AI.

My only concern is that our track record with older players the last few years has not been good - at all:

Sheed was hobbled with aches and pains during his time here..he played well in the playoffs, though.

Shaq? Don't want to beat that dead horse.

JO? Same thing.

It just seems as though here lately when we've tried to rely heavily on quality (but older) players, it just hasn't worked out well. This is where I am really concerned about bringing Allen Iverson in here.

AI's talent and desire could help, but can his body hold up? And if Delonte can come back healthier is there really a need for AI?

It's not how we feel about him.


It is about how the NBA teams feel about him.


Not one single contract offer last year. 

[GreenFaith1819]

Well, however we may feel about him, his desire is undeniable.

He took a PHI team to the Finals, even though they lost to Shaq and Kobe.

I think he would fit in here, no question...get him to a team where there is an established identity...a team with Championship aspirations (still), and a need?

As a backup PG or offense off the bench he would be intriguing. Get him here with a coach like Doc, too?

I'd still prefer Delonte as the 1st option off the bench as PG (especially if he can come back healthy), but if we had a bigger need I would not discount AI.

My only concern is that our track record with older players the last few years has not been good - at all:

Sheed was hobbled with aches and pains during his time here..he played well in the playoffs, though.

Shaq? Don't want to beat that dead horse.

JO? Same thing.

It just seems as though here lately when we've tried to rely heavily on quality (but older) players, it just hasn't worked out well. This is where I am really concerned about bringing Allen Iverson in here.

AI's talent and desire could help, but can his body hold up? And if Delonte can come back healthier is there really a need for AI?

It's not how we feel about him.


It is about how the NBA teams feel about him.


Not one single contract offer last year. 

No doubt, but I would not be surprised if Danny wasn't thinking about him. Danny's been known to kick the tires on many players.

[wdleehi]

Well, however we may feel about him, his desire is undeniable.

He took a PHI team to the Finals, even though they lost to Shaq and Kobe.

I think he would fit in here, no question...get him to a team where there is an established identity...a team with Championship aspirations (still), and a need?

As a backup PG or offense off the bench he would be intriguing. Get him here with a coach like Doc, too?

I'd still prefer Delonte as the 1st option off the bench as PG (especially if he can come back healthy), but if we had a bigger need I would not discount AI.

My only concern is that our track record with older players the last few years has not been good - at all:

Sheed was hobbled with aches and pains during his time here..he played well in the playoffs, though.

Shaq? Don't want to beat that dead horse.

JO? Same thing.

It just seems as though here lately when we've tried to rely heavily on quality (but older) players, it just hasn't worked out well. This is where I am really concerned about bringing Allen Iverson in here.

AI's talent and desire could help, but can his body hold up? And if Delonte can come back healthier is there really a need for AI?

It's not how we feel about him.


It is about how the NBA teams feel about him.


Not one single contract offer last year. 

No doubt, but I would not be surprised if Danny wasn't thinking about him. Danny's been known to kick the tires on many players.

The only player not in the league he kicked the tires on was Miller, a guy that would have brought a single skill at a top level rate (outside shooting)


AI doesn't do that.  The Celtics do not need a little volume shooter who has never allowed a team to have him come off the bench without quitting on them. 



And why does AI come?  He can earn more money and be the man overseas. 

[GreenFaith1819]

Well, however we may feel about him, his desire is undeniable.

He took a PHI team to the Finals, even though they lost to Shaq and Kobe.

I think he would fit in here, no question...get him to a team where there is an established identity...a team with Championship aspirations (still), and a need?

As a backup PG or offense off the bench he would be intriguing. Get him here with a coach like Doc, too?

I'd still prefer Delonte as the 1st option off the bench as PG (especially if he can come back healthy), but if we had a bigger need I would not discount AI.

My only concern is that our track record with older players the last few years has not been good - at all:

Sheed was hobbled with aches and pains during his time here..he played well in the playoffs, though.

Shaq? Don't want to beat that dead horse.

JO? Same thing.

It just seems as though here lately when we've tried to rely heavily on quality (but older) players, it just hasn't worked out well. This is where I am really concerned about bringing Allen Iverson in here.

AI's talent and desire could help, but can his body hold up? And if Delonte can come back healthier is there really a need for AI?

It's not how we feel about him.


It is about how the NBA teams feel about him.


Not one single contract offer last year. 

No doubt, but I would not be surprised if Danny wasn't thinking about him. Danny's been known to kick the tires on many players.

The only player not in the league he kicked the tires on was Miller, a guy that would have brought a single skill at a top level rate (outside shooting)


AI doesn't do that.  The Celtics do not need a little volume shooter who has never allowed a team to have him come off the bench without quitting on them. 



And why does AI come?  He can earn more money and be the man overseas. 

But AI still wants a Championship, too.

Has he ever played with the sort of help that he could potentially be a part of in Boston?

I don't think any team he's been on has had that sort of talent.

And AI didn't quit in Philly.

[wdleehi]

Well, however we may feel about him, his desire is undeniable.

He took a PHI team to the Finals, even though they lost to Shaq and Kobe.

I think he would fit in here, no question...get him to a team where there is an established identity...a team with Championship aspirations (still), and a need?

As a backup PG or offense off the bench he would be intriguing. Get him here with a coach like Doc, too?

I'd still prefer Delonte as the 1st option off the bench as PG (especially if he can come back healthy), but if we had a bigger need I would not discount AI.

My only concern is that our track record with older players the last few years has not been good - at all:

Sheed was hobbled with aches and pains during his time here..he played well in the playoffs, though.

Shaq? Don't want to beat that dead horse.

JO? Same thing.

It just seems as though here lately when we've tried to rely heavily on quality (but older) players, it just hasn't worked out well. This is where I am really concerned about bringing Allen Iverson in here.

AI's talent and desire could help, but can his body hold up? And if Delonte can come back healthier is there really a need for AI?

It's not how we feel about him.


It is about how the NBA teams feel about him.


Not one single contract offer last year. 

No doubt, but I would not be surprised if Danny wasn't thinking about him. Danny's been known to kick the tires on many players.

The only player not in the league he kicked the tires on was Miller, a guy that would have brought a single skill at a top level rate (outside shooting)


AI doesn't do that.  The Celtics do not need a little volume shooter who has never allowed a team to have him come off the bench without quitting on them. 



And why does AI come?  He can earn more money and be the man overseas. 

But AI still wants a Championship, too.

Has he ever played with the sort of help that he could potentially be a part of in Boston?

I don't think any team he's been on has had that sort of talent.

And AI didn't quit in Philly.

He quit in Memphis.  (after they told him before he signed that he was going to come off the bench)

And you understand that the reason he never had a lot of offensive help in Philly was because Larry Brown understood that AI wasn't going to share and his only chance to win with him was to surround him with guys that would play hard nose defense even if they were uninvolved at the other end.   

The team in Denver had talent.  As soon as he left, they went to the Western Finals.

The team he went to in Detroit had that type of talent.  The year before, they were the best team the Celtics faced in the Eastern side of the playoffs.  When AI went there, they became dysfunctional and went into the tank.  They wanted him to come off the bench, but he wanted none of that.



Then he quit on Memphis because they told him before he signed the contract they planned to play him off the bench, and then they did.  That team's talent grew into a playoff team that made the 2nd round.

[GreenFaith1819]

Well, however we may feel about him, his desire is undeniable.

He took a PHI team to the Finals, even though they lost to Shaq and Kobe.

I think he would fit in here, no question...get him to a team where there is an established identity...a team with Championship aspirations (still), and a need?

As a backup PG or offense off the bench he would be intriguing. Get him here with a coach like Doc, too?

I'd still prefer Delonte as the 1st option off the bench as PG (especially if he can come back healthy), but if we had a bigger need I would not discount AI.

My only concern is that our track record with older players the last few years has not been good - at all:

Sheed was hobbled with aches and pains during his time here..he played well in the playoffs, though.

Shaq? Don't want to beat that dead horse.

JO? Same thing.

It just seems as though here lately when we've tried to rely heavily on quality (but older) players, it just hasn't worked out well. This is where I am really concerned about bringing Allen Iverson in here.

AI's talent and desire could help, but can his body hold up? And if Delonte can come back healthier is there really a need for AI?

It's not how we feel about him.


It is about how the NBA teams feel about him.


Not one single contract offer last year. 

No doubt, but I would not be surprised if Danny wasn't thinking about him. Danny's been known to kick the tires on many players.

The only player not in the league he kicked the tires on was Miller, a guy that would have brought a single skill at a top level rate (outside shooting)


AI doesn't do that.  The Celtics do not need a little volume shooter who has never allowed a team to have him come off the bench without quitting on them. 



And why does AI come?  He can earn more money and be the man overseas. 

But AI still wants a Championship, too.

Has he ever played with the sort of help that he could potentially be a part of in Boston?

I don't think any team he's been on has had that sort of talent.

And AI didn't quit in Philly.

He quit in Memphis.  (after they told him before he signed that he was going to come off the bench)

And you understand that the reason he never had a lot of offensive help in Philly was because Larry Brown understood that AI wasn't going to share and his only chance to win with him was to surround him with guys that would play hard nose defense even if they were uninvolved at the other end.   

The team in Denver had talent.  As soon as he left, they went to the Western Finals.

The team he went to in Detroit had that type of talent.  The year before, they were the best team the Celtics faced in the Eastern side of the playoffs.  When AI went there, they became dysfunctional and went into the tank.  They wanted him to come off the bench, but he wanted none of that.



Then he quit on Memphis because they told him before he signed the contract they planned to play him off the bench, and then they did.  That team's talent grew into a playoff team that made the 2nd round.

But that Denver team was a mess....no defensive toughness at all. Of course they would succumb to LA in 6 games.

That was not AI's fault. As great a coach as George Karl is, he is simply not known for defense.

And MEM? They were a mess of a team until they commited to Defense (TA coming aboard, Rudy being hurt, etc).

Boston? To reiterated - I like our team as is - right now - especially if Delonte can come back healthy.

BUT - if we start losing backcourt players - again - why not AI?

Talk about a one shot deal...a team with an established coach..one known for managing egos...Ray, Rajon, Paul and KG as the vets - all with one last goal in mind - to try for perhaps the last time to win it all?

[wdleehi]

Well, however we may feel about him, his desire is undeniable.

He took a PHI team to the Finals, even though they lost to Shaq and Kobe.

I think he would fit in here, no question...get him to a team where there is an established identity...a team with Championship aspirations (still), and a need?

As a backup PG or offense off the bench he would be intriguing. Get him here with a coach like Doc, too?

I'd still prefer Delonte as the 1st option off the bench as PG (especially if he can come back healthy), but if we had a bigger need I would not discount AI.

My only concern is that our track record with older players the last few years has not been good - at all:

Sheed was hobbled with aches and pains during his time here..he played well in the playoffs, though.

Shaq? Don't want to beat that dead horse.

JO? Same thing.

It just seems as though here lately when we've tried to rely heavily on quality (but older) players, it just hasn't worked out well. This is where I am really concerned about bringing Allen Iverson in here.

AI's talent and desire could help, but can his body hold up? And if Delonte can come back healthier is there really a need for AI?

It's not how we feel about him.


It is about how the NBA teams feel about him.


Not one single contract offer last year. 

No doubt, but I would not be surprised if Danny wasn't thinking about him. Danny's been known to kick the tires on many players.

The only player not in the league he kicked the tires on was Miller, a guy that would have brought a single skill at a top level rate (outside shooting)


AI doesn't do that.  The Celtics do not need a little volume shooter who has never allowed a team to have him come off the bench without quitting on them. 



And why does AI come?  He can earn more money and be the man overseas. 

But AI still wants a Championship, too.

Has he ever played with the sort of help that he could potentially be a part of in Boston?

I don't think any team he's been on has had that sort of talent.

And AI didn't quit in Philly.

He quit in Memphis.  (after they told him before he signed that he was going to come off the bench)

And you understand that the reason he never had a lot of offensive help in Philly was because Larry Brown understood that AI wasn't going to share and his only chance to win with him was to surround him with guys that would play hard nose defense even if they were uninvolved at the other end.   

The team in Denver had talent.  As soon as he left, they went to the Western Finals.

The team he went to in Detroit had that type of talent.  The year before, they were the best team the Celtics faced in the Eastern side of the playoffs.  When AI went there, they became dysfunctional and went into the tank.  They wanted him to come off the bench, but he wanted none of that.



Then he quit on Memphis because they told him before he signed the contract they planned to play him off the bench, and then they did.  That team's talent grew into a playoff team that made the 2nd round.

But that Denver team was a mess....no defensive toughness at all. Of course they would succumb to LA in 6 games.

That was not AI's fault. As great a coach as George Karl is, he is simply not known for defense.

And MEM? They were a mess of a team until they commited to Defense (TA coming aboard, Rudy being hurt, etc).

Boston? To reiterated - I like our team as is - right now - especially if Delonte can come back healthy.

BUT - if we start losing backcourt players - again - why not AI?

Talk about a one shot deal...a team with an established coach..one known for managing egos...Ray, Rajon, Paul and KG as the vets - all with one last goal in mind - to try for perhaps the last time to win it all?

Because he no longer has the talent level that allows team to look past his other baggage. 

Which is why no team offered him a contract. 

[GreenFaith1819]

Well, however we may feel about him, his desire is undeniable.

He took a PHI team to the Finals, even though they lost to Shaq and Kobe.

I think he would fit in here, no question...get him to a team where there is an established identity...a team with Championship aspirations (still), and a need?

As a backup PG or offense off the bench he would be intriguing. Get him here with a coach like Doc, too?

I'd still prefer Delonte as the 1st option off the bench as PG (especially if he can come back healthy), but if we had a bigger need I would not discount AI.

My only concern is that our track record with older players the last few years has not been good - at all:

Sheed was hobbled with aches and pains during his time here..he played well in the playoffs, though.

Shaq? Don't want to beat that dead horse.

JO? Same thing.

It just seems as though here lately when we've tried to rely heavily on quality (but older) players, it just hasn't worked out well. This is where I am really concerned about bringing Allen Iverson in here.

AI's talent and desire could help, but can his body hold up? And if Delonte can come back healthier is there really a need for AI?

It's not how we feel about him.


It is about how the NBA teams feel about him.


Not one single contract offer last year. 

No doubt, but I would not be surprised if Danny wasn't thinking about him. Danny's been known to kick the tires on many players.

The only player not in the league he kicked the tires on was Miller, a guy that would have brought a single skill at a top level rate (outside shooting)


AI doesn't do that.  The Celtics do not need a little volume shooter who has never allowed a team to have him come off the bench without quitting on them. 



And why does AI come?  He can earn more money and be the man overseas. 

But AI still wants a Championship, too.

Has he ever played with the sort of help that he could potentially be a part of in Boston?

I don't think any team he's been on has had that sort of talent.

And AI didn't quit in Philly.

He quit in Memphis.  (after they told him before he signed that he was going to come off the bench)

And you understand that the reason he never had a lot of offensive help in Philly was because Larry Brown understood that AI wasn't going to share and his only chance to win with him was to surround him with guys that would play hard nose defense even if they were uninvolved at the other end.   

The team in Denver had talent.  As soon as he left, they went to the Western Finals.

The team he went to in Detroit had that type of talent.  The year before, they were the best team the Celtics faced in the Eastern side of the playoffs.  When AI went there, they became dysfunctional and went into the tank.  They wanted him to come off the bench, but he wanted none of that.



Then he quit on Memphis because they told him before he signed the contract they planned to play him off the bench, and then they did.  That team's talent grew into a playoff team that made the 2nd round.

But that Denver team was a mess....no defensive toughness at all. Of course they would succumb to LA in 6 games.

That was not AI's fault. As great a coach as George Karl is, he is simply not known for defense.

And MEM? They were a mess of a team until they commited to Defense (TA coming aboard, Rudy being hurt, etc).

Boston? To reiterated - I like our team as is - right now - especially if Delonte can come back healthy.

BUT - if we start losing backcourt players - again - why not AI?

Talk about a one shot deal...a team with an established coach..one known for managing egos...Ray, Rajon, Paul and KG as the vets - all with one last goal in mind - to try for perhaps the last time to win it all?

Because he no longer has the talent level that allows team to look past his other baggage. 

Which is why no team offered him a contract. 

Ah - so can we at least agree that Allen Iverson would not be a distraction or a trouble-maker here, but Danny probably wouldn' sign him only because he didn't believe he had the talent anymore?

[Finkelskyhook]

But AI still wants a Championship, too.

Has he ever played with the sort of help that he could potentially be a part of in Boston?

I don't think any team he's been on has had that sort of talent.

And AI didn't quit in Philly.

Greenfaith, are you this idiot's agent or something?  

With the exception of the one finals year...When he had arguably the best coach of his era, arguably the best defensive center of his era, a perfect combination of defensive minded role players to cover for his occasional-cheat-the-passing-lane defense.  Iverson has alienated every NBA coach he's had except maybe Karl.  Every team he's left has been better after and every team he's joined has been worse with him.  If he hadn't quit in Philly he'd have never been traded in the first place.

Be it on the court or behind the mic, Iverson has always been all about Iverson.  So your line that he "still wants a championship" is laughable.

Danny spent years de-sleazing and de-flaking the team.  Why would he bring in the poster boy for self absorpsion?

[barefacedmonk]

He'll always be "The Answer".

[KCattheStripe]

[fanofgreen]

He has a terribly Arthritic Knee! End of Discussion!

[GreenFaith1819]

But AI still wants a Championship, too.

Has he ever played with the sort of help that he could potentially be a part of in Boston?

I don't think any team he's been on has had that sort of talent.

And AI didn't quit in Philly.

Greenfaith, are you this idiot's agent or something?  

With the exception of the one finals year...When he had arguably the best coach of his era, arguably the best defensive center of his era, a perfect combination of defensive minded role players to cover for his occasional-cheat-the-passing-lane defense.  Iverson has alienated every NBA coach he's had except maybe Karl.  Every team he's left has been better after and every team he's joined has been worse with him.  If he hadn't quit in Philly he'd have never been traded in the first place.

Be it on the court or behind the mic, Iverson has always been all about Iverson.  So your line that he "still wants a championship" is laughable.

Danny spent years de-sleazing and de-flaking the team.  Why would he bring in the poster boy for self absorpsion?

Because Danny has brought in the following "poster boys for self-absorption":

Marbury.

Nate.

Sheed.

Now - Sheed and Nate, to a lesser extent, of course. But Marbury? I remember him being a HUGE question mark before he came here from NY.

And Marbury fit in, indeed - he even won a playoff game for us, just like Doc mentioned he would.

Arguably, Boston would've won it all in 08-09, if KG and Powe hadn't went down.

And - Stephon Marbury would've won a Championship Ring, in Green. Imagine that.

For wdleehi and Finkle - you can believe what you'd like about AI - but I will do the same as well.

Let's just agree to disagree? My mind is not changing here.

[Finkelskyhook]

But AI still wants a Championship, too.

Has he ever played with the sort of help that he could potentially be a part of in Boston?

I don't think any team he's been on has had that sort of talent.

And AI didn't quit in Philly.

Greenfaith, are you this idiot's agent or something?  

With the exception of the one finals year...When he had arguably the best coach of his era, arguably the best defensive center of his era, a perfect combination of defensive minded role players to cover for his occasional-cheat-the-passing-lane defense.  Iverson has alienated every NBA coach he's had except maybe Karl.  Every team he's left has been better after and every team he's joined has been worse with him.  If he hadn't quit in Philly he'd have never been traded in the first place.

Be it on the court or behind the mic, Iverson has always been all about Iverson.  So your line that he "still wants a championship" is laughable.

Danny spent years de-sleazing and de-flaking the team.  Why would he bring in the poster boy for self absorpsion?

Because Danny has brought in the following "poster boys for self-absorption":

Marbury.

Nate.

Sheed.

Now - Sheed and Nate, to a lesser extent, of course. But Marbury? I remember him being a HUGE question mark before he came here from NY.

And Marbury fit in, indeed - he even won a playoff game for us, just like Doc mentioned he would.

Arguably, Boston would've won it all in 08-09, if KG and Powe hadn't went down.

And - Stephon Marbury would've won a Championship Ring, in Green. Imagine that.

For wdleehi and Finkle - you can believe what you'd like about AI - but I will do the same as well.

Let's just agree to disagree? My mind is not changing here.

It's hard to figure out the Marbury thing.  Sheed is a champion. 

The problem is that Iverson still thinks he's better than anybody playing ahead of him.  He isn't.

Like it was said in here..There are plenty of gunners who play no defense who at least have character.