2009 Celticsblog Draft: Voting Analysis : Team of the Future

[nickagneta]

Well i must say that i am very dissapointed in that CB Nation decided a team relying so heavily on 3 rookie big men and a 210lb., 22-career-starts-under-his-belt center would ultimately have the stones in the playoffs to dismantle a team with one of, if not THE deepest groupings of talented big-men in the league.  It seems almost hypocritical since Riah's kings were left out of the playoffs for leaning so hard on a bunch of unproven rooks, yet Houston moves on to the second round.

Regardless, i had a great time over the past few weeks and hope i will be able to participate next year.  Good luck to the teams still alive in the post-season.

I think you are so focused on some of the younger bench talent that you forgot about these guys for Houston:

Chris Bosh
Joe Johnson
Monta Ellis
Anthony Randolph
Grant Hill
Andres Nocioni
D.J. Augustin

Say what you want but Bosh, Johnson, Hill, Ellis and Nocioni make this an extremely formidable team. You, much like Portland, latched your star onto aging stars who's games have been faltering recently. It is not inconceivable to see major, major drops in the games of Kidd, Marion, Carter and Terry and you have some major knuckleheads on the team in Harrington and Smith. I think people perceived that Bosh's and Johnson's and Hill's and Ellis steadiness and likability was better than the possible decline of some of your players games and the volatility of the brain matter of a couple of your players.

Portland on the other hand had a lot of their age and possible declining players in big people who's games don't drop off as fast and who's games were better than your aging players who were guards and wings.

All that said, Portland should kill Houston in the next round of voting.

[johnnyrondo]

Well there you have it


Portland's vote for seedings:

1. Orlando Magic (GainsvilleCeltic/Lucky17)
2. Toronto Raptors (Rondo2287)
3. Chicago Bulls (johnnyrondo)
4. Phily  setentayseises(kwhit10)
5. Boston Celtics (JSaad)
6. New Jersey Nets (bdm860)
7. Washington Boxers (nickagenta)
8. Indiana Pacers (StartOrien)
9. Ney York Knicks(LEAHYISGOD)
10. Milwakee Bucks (bucksnersrevenge) I LOVE this team for future.
11. Atlanta Hawks (gomesfan)
12. Cleveland Cavs (Champkind)
13. Detroit Pistons (celtic fan forever)
14. Cuba Heat (celtsrp33)
15. Charlotte (tradetime)


Playoffs: Portland picks Detroit to beat Chicago


Portland votes their # 13th seed Detroit over the #3 seed Chicago. They voted the team they picked to finish in the Central cellar over the team that they picked to win the division. And you wonder why this game is questioned.

[Roy Hobbs]

My thoughts on the matchups:

Orlando vs. Cleveland:  I just don't think Cleveland can slow down Lebron enough.  They could steal a game or two if Mike Miller returns to form, but I think Orlando takes this one.  I say Orlando in 5.

Detroit vs. Chicago:  This one is interesting, just because Detroit has much, much better depth.  Also, there's no way Raja Bell can match up with Rudy Gay; if Detroit is smart, they'll exploit the fact that Gay is being defended by a 6'5" shooting guard.  I also think Pau will struggle guarding Amare; Amare' has routinely out-scored and out-rebounded Gasol.  In the end, though, the CP3 mismatch is too much for Detroit.  Chicago wins in 7.

New Jersey vs. Toronto:  Paul Pierce vs. KG, huh?  Interesting, potentially great series.  I think that KG will shut down Brand, and Miller will beat up on Fisher.  New Jersey is a great team, but Toronto in 6.

Boston vs. Philadelphia:  Wade is going to have to do a lot of his scoring from the outside, as the middle will be shut down.  I think Brewer bothers Wade enough to keep him from scoring 25 - 30 (or more) every night, which is what is necessary for Boston to win.  Philly in 6.

Those are my thoughts right now, but before I vote, I'll give the GMs a chance to speak.

[Rondo2287]

VOTE RAPTORS

Vote Toronto Over NJ:

 starting Lineup PPG
Miller:16.3       Fisher:9.9
Garcia:12.7       Lee:8.4
Artest:17.1       Pierce:20.4
Kg:15.8            Brand:13.8
Camby:10.3        Wallace:12.00

totals
72.2                   64.5

in 26 career matchups,
Garnett is 18-8 with roughly 22ppg, 12 rbs, 5 assts, 2stls, 2blks.

Brand is 18ppg, 9rbs, 2assts, 1stl, 2blks

Career Matchup

Miller is averaging, 16.2/4.2/7.3
Fisher is averaging. 9.8/2.0/3.7

Camby vs Wallace
Last Season stats
Camby: 10.1 pts, 11.3 rbs, 2.0 Ass, 2.1 Blks, .512%
Wallace:12.1 pts. 7.5 rbs, 1.4 ass, 1.3 Blks, .419%

Then take into account Backups
Drew Gooden/Eddy curry(If he plays at all this season)
vs
Hakim Warrick and Big Z

Gooden is quality, but they have nobody to match up with Warrick

NJ is a very good team, however we were voted over them in the regular season for a reason. 
[/quote]

Enough Said

NJ's Back up center played 12 Minutes last season

[Roy Hobbs]

All that said, Portland should kill Houston in the next round of voting.

I agree, nick.  Shaq is going to stomp the yard.

[indeedproceed]

Orlando

Detroit

Toronto

Flip a coin  Phily

Come on Edgar, you had the Celtics ahead during the season vote...

Only playoff votes in that thread, jsaad.

[Gainesville Celtic]

FWIW, i don't think there's anything untoward about voting a team a higher seed, then voting them to lose a playoff series... esp. if you explain why here.

It's not like it doesn't happen in the real NBA (see ORL beating CLE in this year's playoffs). IMO --- and it's just my opinion --- a teams weakness can be amplified in a Best-of-7 series where teams/coaches have a chance to game plan against that weakness.

For example i voted DAL as a better regular season team (but not by much; they were 6th, HOU 7th in my mind, but DAL was 3rd b/c they took the division), but felt (and wrote yesterday):

<snip>

(DAL/HOU):  HOUSTON (in 7)

some thoughts .....

<snip>

HOU/DEN -- in my mind this comes down to DAL not being able to deal with Joe Johnson (who is a terrific player). HOU's frontline is like the real San Antonio's has been: a bit anonymous, but solid. Nocioni & a recovered Leon Powe are x-factors too against Harrington/Marion. Age catches up with Kidd over a long season/series chasing Monta Ellis and Augstin around.

[Fafnir]

I have to agree with you Gainsville. How you vote for a playoff match up does not have to match where you thought they'd finish in the regular season.

However some explanation should be expected if you had the two teams far apart in the regular season.

[jgod213]

Well i must say that i am very dissapointed in that CB Nation decided a team relying so heavily on 3 rookie big men and a 210lb., 22-career-starts-under-his-belt center would ultimately have the stones in the playoffs to dismantle a team with one of, if not THE deepest groupings of talented big-men in the league.  It seems almost hypocritical since Riah's kings were left out of the playoffs for leaning so hard on a bunch of unproven rooks, yet Houston moves on to the second round.

Regardless, i had a great time over the past few weeks and hope i will be able to participate next year.  Good luck to the teams still alive in the post-season.

I think you are so focused on some of the younger bench talent that you forgot about these guys for Houston:

Chris Bosh
Joe Johnson
Monta Ellis
Anthony Randolph
Grant Hill
Andres Nocioni
D.J. Augustin

Say what you want but Bosh, Johnson, Hill, Ellis and Nocioni make this an extremely formidable team. You, much like Portland, latched your star onto aging stars who's games have been faltering recently. It is not inconceivable to see major, major drops in the games of Kidd, Marion, Carter and Terry and you have some major knuckleheads on the team in Harrington and Smith. I think people perceived that Bosh's and Johnson's and Hill's and Ellis steadiness and likability was better than the possible decline of some of your players games and the volatility of the brain matter of a couple of your players.

Portland on the other hand had a lot of their age and possible declining players in big people who's games don't drop off as fast and who's games were better than your aging players who were guards and wings.

All that said, Portland should kill Houston in the next round of voting.

I can't agree with some of that logic.

Who's to say that Kidd and Terry, who had two of their better years, are more likely to fall off a cliff than 37 year old, injury prone Grant Hill?  There's absoultely no grounds for that.  Further, Marion is 6 years younger then Hill, Carter is several years younger, and neither have an injury history.  Plus all four of these guys have proven, capable backups.  Even if Kidd AND Carter both somehow simultaneously lost their ability to play basketball, Brandon Jennings is a more highly touted prospect then either Blair or Andersen, who will be asked to do FAR more then Jennings regardless.

We rag on Smith and Harrington for beeing "Knuckleheads," but at least they've proven they can compete at an EXTREMELY high level in the NBA.  Randolph, Blair, and Andersen haven't even proven that they can play a full NBA season yet.  Who's to say that all 3 will be good to go and play big minutes come playoffs? it's more likely that 1 or 2 of them may even be in the D-leauge come post-season.

If Houston wins it's because Ellis and Johnson put up 60+ points/game combined.  It's possible, but i think we're a good enough team to keep that from happening 4 times in a series.

[Rondo2287]

Voting For Toronto



So easy a Dinobot can do it



Dont wait, Vote now!

[Rondo2287]

And if you dont Vote Toronto by choice, we have ways of making it happen




We are adapting(He Turns into a computer mouse)

[nickagneta]

Well i must say that i am very dissapointed in that CB Nation decided a team relying so heavily on 3 rookie big men and a 210lb., 22-career-starts-under-his-belt center would ultimately have the stones in the playoffs to dismantle a team with one of, if not THE deepest groupings of talented big-men in the league.  It seems almost hypocritical since Riah's kings were left out of the playoffs for leaning so hard on a bunch of unproven rooks, yet Houston moves on to the second round.

Regardless, i had a great time over the past few weeks and hope i will be able to participate next year.  Good luck to the teams still alive in the post-season.

I think you are so focused on some of the younger bench talent that you forgot about these guys for Houston:

Chris Bosh
Joe Johnson
Monta Ellis
Anthony Randolph
Grant Hill
Andres Nocioni
D.J. Augustin

Say what you want but Bosh, Johnson, Hill, Ellis and Nocioni make this an extremely formidable team. You, much like Portland, latched your star onto aging stars who's games have been faltering recently. It is not inconceivable to see major, major drops in the games of Kidd, Marion, Carter and Terry and you have some major knuckleheads on the team in Harrington and Smith. I think people perceived that Bosh's and Johnson's and Hill's and Ellis steadiness and likability was better than the possible decline of some of your players games and the volatility of the brain matter of a couple of your players.

Portland on the other hand had a lot of their age and possible declining players in big people who's games don't drop off as fast and who's games were better than your aging players who were guards and wings.

All that said, Portland should kill Houston in the next round of voting.

I can't agree with some of that logic.

Who's to say that Kidd and Terry, who had two of their better years, are more likely to fall off a cliff than 37 year old, injury prone Grant Hill?  There's absoultely no grounds for that.  Further, Marion is 6 years younger then Hill, Carter is several years younger, and neither have an injury history.  Plus all four of these guys have proven, capable backups.  Even if Kidd AND Carter both somehow simultaneously lost their ability to play basketball, Brandon Jennings is a more highly touted prospect then either Blair or Andersen, who will be asked to do FAR more then Jennings regardless.

We rag on Smith and Harrington for beeing "Knuckleheads," but at least they've proven they can compete at an EXTREMELY high level in the NBA.  Randolph, Blair, and Andersen haven't even proven that they can play a full NBA season yet.  Who's to say that all 3 will be good to go and play big minutes come playoffs? it's more likely that 1 or 2 of them may even be in the D-leauge come post-season.

If Houston wins it's because Ellis and Johnson put up 60+ points/game combined.  It's possible, but i think we're a good enough team to keep that from happening 4 times in a series.

You seem to not have gotten the point that Houston has these two guys named Bosh and Johnson who are at the peak of their games and are both almost superduperstars, probably a step below.

Kidd on the other hand scored 9 points and had less than 9 assists a game, couldn't guard a stool never mind a chair that could move like a recliner and you call that one of his "better" years? Marion had a year of 13 and 8 and likewise he is really no longer able to guard small forwards. I have grass in my back yard taller than Jason Terry and you want him to guard the 6-7 Joe Johnson. Johnson will hit jumpers over him all day. It's like trying to have Eddie House guard Paul Pierce. The notion is ridiculous.

Name recognition on these guys(Kidd, Marion) says possible top 50-75 players ever and yet they are putting in mediocre years recently and those years are becoming worse and worse. People are recognizing this. Name recognition gets you only so far. Ask Atlanta about it as he was banking on Iverson and McGrady's names to carry him to the playoffs. There are some very smart basketball people at this site and they view this game as a game of stars. Your two biggest are aging and declining and putting in pedestrian years. Bosh and Johnson are younger and putting in superstar years.

Big huge gigantic difference there and the one that swayed my vote Houston's way.

[Gainesville Celtic]

TORONTO may have scary toys, but our mascot –– Gob Bluth –– is a Magician (naturally) and might pull a little sleight of hand with your vote if you don't vote for the Magics 




BTW has anyone seen Champkind? I saw puff of smoke but haven't seen him since.....

[JSD]

Boston vs. Philadelphia:  Wade is going to have to do a lot of his scoring from the outside, as the middle will be shut down.  I think Brewer bothers Wade enough to keep him from scoring 25 - 30 (or more) every night, which is what is necessary for Boston to win.  Philly in 6.

The Celtics are built to win in the half court offense. The 76ers are built to win in transition.

[johnnyrondo]

Boston's vote for seedings

1. Chicago
2. Orlando
3. Boston
4. Philly
5. NJ
6. Toronto
7. Washington
8. Cleveland
9. NY
10 Detroit
11 Indiana
12 Milwaukee - Strong candidate for T of F.
13 Atlanta
14 Heat
15.Charlotte

Boston picks Detroit over Chicago. I now see what Nick and Buck were talking about regarding public voting and retaliation. I also see why people who played this game last year didn't come back.