2009 Celticsblog Draft: Voting Analysis : Team of the Future

[johnnyrondo]

I think both Cleveland and Washington should look at things like they both made the playoffs. This isn't really a play-in game as much as a round before their matchup with Orlando, which Orlando will be heavily favorited.

[Gainesville Celtic]

To the 29 other GMs and Edgar:

I'm hereby resigning my slot as co-GM of the Portland CrotoNats.  This game is no longer fun for me, primarily due to the behavior of a couple of individuals, one of whom has started conflict with no fewer than four GMs in this game.

At this point, I feel as though I can no longer both be a GM in this game and enforce the rules of this forum, as required by my title as Forums Manager.  Certain members are using my position as a GM to engage in rule-breaking behavior, including not limited to trolling, baiting, posting private messages, and lying about my actions to other members.

As such, effective immediately, Edgar will be the only GM of Portland.  I will continue to vote and to ask questions of the various GMs who have participated in this game in good faith.  I will not, however, be speaking on Portland's behalf.

Best of luck, and to the 25+ GMs who have made this game a pleasure, I give you my sincere thanks.

-Roy

I'm sorry to hear that.

Agree.

Anything I tried to write just now came of sounding sanctimonious.
that said, it always bums me out tho when a group of people can't work it out amongst themselves... makes me less hopeful for the future.

I do hope folks will for the rest of this year and going into next remember that this is just a game and that if nothing else we agree on who the best "real" team is (hint: rhymes with "sell tix")

I hope perhaps Roy would reconsider and everyone would just let the game play out and but i don't hold out much hope for that unfortunately. At the very least though maybe we can all dial down the non-basketball arguing/snitiness.

If nothing else maybe a reminder to "do unto others..."?

[nickagneta]

Think Stephen Jackson can't lead a team offensively or in the playoffs?

2007 Golden State( vs Dallas(1)

23 PPG, 4.5 RPG, 3.75 APG, 2 STPG, 0.75 BPG, 52% FG%, 47.5% 3PTFG%, 79% FT%

In a deciding Game 6 he led the Warriors to victory with:

33 Pts, 3 Ast, 5 Reb, 3 Stl, 7-8 3PT FGM-A, 44 Min


2005 Indiana(6) vs Boston(6)

19 PPG, 3 RPG, 3 APG, 1.8 STPG, 45.6% FG%, 45.1% 3PTFG%, 82% FT%

In a deciding Game 7 he led the Pacers to victory with:

24 Pts, 4 Ast, 2 Reb, 5 Stl, 5-6 3PT FGM-A, 8-13 FGM-A, 37 Min


2003 San Antonio(1) vs Dallas(3)

16.5 PPG, 3.3 RPG, 3 APG, 2 STPG, 50.5% FG%, 35.1% 3PTFG%, 100% FT%

In a deciding Game 6 he once again led all scorers in leading the Spurs to victory with:

24 Pts, 3 Ast, 2 Reb, 3 Stl, 5-7 3PT FGM-A, 8-14 FGM-A, 44 Min


Don't believe that Jackson can't lead a team? Isn't this proof that not only can he but that he can even do it during the most important of times(playoff series) and games(deciding games of a series).

[johnnyrondo]

Think Stephen Jackson can't lead a team offensively or in the playoffs?

2007 Golden State( vs Dallas(1)

23 PPG, 4.5 RPG, 3.75 APG, 2 STPG, 0.75 BPG, 52% FG%, 47.5% 3PTFG%, 79% FT%

In a deciding Game 6 he led the Warriors to victory with:

33 Pts, 3 Ast, 5 Reb, 3 Stl, 7-8 3PT FGM-A, 44 Min


2005 Indiana(6) vs Boston(6)

19 PPG, 3 RPG, 3 APG, 1.8 STPG, 45.6% FG%, 45.1% 3PTFG%, 82% FT%

In a deciding Game 7 he led the Pacers to victory with:

24 Pts, 4 Ast, 2 Reb, 5 Stl, 5-6 3PT FGM-A, 8-13 FGM-A, 37 Min


2003 San Antonio(1) vs Dallas(3)

16.5 PPG, 3.3 RPG, 3 APG, 2 STPG, 50.5% FG%, 35.1% 3PTFG%, 100% FT%

In a deciding Game 6 he once again led all scorers in leading the Spurs to victory with:

24 Pts, 3 Ast, 2 Reb, 3 Stl, 5-7 3PT FGM-A, 8-14 FGM-A, 44 Min


Don't believe that Jackson can't lead a team? Isn't this proof that not only can he but that he can even do it during the most important of times(playoff series) and games(deciding games of a series).

Nick, how is anyone to be intimidated into voting for you now that your avatar pic is nowhere to be seen? Fix that immediately and watch as the Boxers go up in votes.

[indeedproceed]

Ohhhh Casperian, GC and someone else who voted Seattle AHHHHHHHH!!!! (I'm shaking my fist) AHHHHHH!H!!!!!!!!


What is talent in the face of this omnipotent "experience"? Sure...its just one guy...sure he's 33 years old and couldn't get out of the first round last year...sure, my starting Point guard, shooting guard, small forward, center, backup shooting guard, backup small forward, and backup center have all had EXTENSIVE playoff expereince or even been a part of title winning teams...but yeah. Experience.

None of you are getting christmas cards. Or free hats.

One vote difference turned into a 4or 5 deficit. Sheesh.

[nickagneta]

Well that's four voters who went with Washington in the playoff seedings vote but have changed their votes to Cleveland for the vote off.....so far.

In a vote that is now standing Cleveland 10 Washington 7 that's pretty significant!!

Also, not unexpected as I predicted this to people in PM's just after voting opened.

I thought about it honestly Nick... but went with Washington. I don't think switching should be taken with any sort of ill-will.

CLE & WASH (and NY & MIL, imo) are good teams who each have some serious question marks. In a 1-game playoff it's a tossup, if we just reevaluate who does better over a 82 game season, it's a toss up.

I seriously considered switching b/c Devin Harris is a real X-factor IMO, he's talking about really trying to improve his leadership this year, and I think CLE is a little bit deeper than WASH (guys like LRMAM, Rush, Bell, williams, Blatche are nice young players).

But I like WASH's difference makers (Jackson, WAllace, Scola) just a little more than CLE's (Harris, Crawford, West, Bogut) and expect JWright and Sessions to really improve this year.

I don't think there's a wrong vote, but this is how I saw it...

Well that's just it. There's no such thing as a one game playoff to determine the best team in the NBA.  So I think this thing should have been handled as if it were voting on who should have won the regular season because there were voting irregularities. If then everyone votes as they did in the regular vote, even those who's votes then didn't count, then we would see who would win. If some voters didn't make it the second time around, whatever.

But this was turned into a "who has the better team" vote, not a "who should have won the regular season vote". Given the facts that 4 days have passed since the first vote was cast, given that the reasoning for the vote was changed and given that in playing the game, critiquing others comes into effect and the effect those critiques can have on people can, even without them knowing it, changed their objectivity, I kinda knew I had little to no chance here and that a rash of votes would change. I predicted as such.

No hard feelings. I lose. Doesn't mean I have to be happy with the way it went down which I think was pretty rotten from a Washington POV but, oh well.

I hold nothing of what happened in this game against anyone, permanently. You play a game. You play it fierce, intense and to win. Sometimes you argue calls. Sometimes tempers flare. That's competition. After you shake hands, say great game and go get a bear together. Just like a pick up game down at the local Y or corner court or something.

[nickagneta]

Remember:

VOTE

WASHINGTON

[Gainesville Celtic]

Well that's four voters who went with Washington in the playoff seedings vote but have changed their votes to Cleveland for the vote off.....so far.

In a vote that is now standing Cleveland 10 Washington 7 that's pretty significant!!

Also, not unexpected as I predicted this to people in PM's just after voting opened.

I thought about it honestly Nick... but went with Washington. I don't think switching should be taken with any sort of ill-will.

CLE & WASH (and NY & MIL, imo) are good teams who each have some serious question marks. In a 1-game playoff it's a tossup, if we just reevaluate who does better over a 82 game season, it's a toss up.

I seriously considered switching b/c Devin Harris is a real X-factor IMO, he's talking about really trying to improve his leadership this year, and I think CLE is a little bit deeper than WASH (guys like LRMAM, Rush, Bell, williams, Blatche are nice young players).

But I like WASH's difference makers (Jackson, WAllace, Scola) just a little more than CLE's (Harris, Crawford, West, Bogut) and expect JWright and Sessions to really improve this year.

I don't think there's a wrong vote, but this is how I saw it...

Well that's just it. There's no such thing as a one game playoff to determine the best team in the NBA.  So I think this thing should have been handled as if it were voting on who should have won the regular season because there were voting irregularities. If then everyone votes as they did in the regular vote, even those who's votes then didn't count, then we would see who would win. If some voters didn't make it the second time around, whatever.

But this was turned into a "who has the better team" vote, not a "who should have won the regular season vote". Given the facts that 4 days have passed since the first vote was cast, given that the reasoning for the vote was changed and given that in playing the game, critiquing others comes into effect and the effect those critiques can have on people can, even without them knowing it, changed their objectivity, I kinda knew I had little to no chance here and that a rash of votes would change. I predicted as such.

No hard feelings. I lose. Doesn't mean I have to be happy with the way it went down which I think was pretty rotten from a Washington POV but, oh well.

I hold nothing of what happened in this game against anyone, permanently. You play a game. You play it fierce, intense and to win. Sometimes you argue calls. Sometimes tempers flare. That's competition. After you shake hands, say great game and go get a bear together. Just like a pick up game down at the local Y or corner court or something.

Well you shake hands .... unless you're Lebron James. Glad we don't have that sore loser on our team 

And maybe it's a Washington Boxers thing but I've never gone out and gotten a bear after a game. Is that like wild-game hunting to replenish vitamins? 


And yes ultimately I treated it as a revote.... there were no compelling facts to make me switch votes (though like i said with such a close matchup there are probably people who felt not very strongly and on furhter reflection went with CLE).

[Edgar]

Vote Portland!!

[nickagneta]

Well that's four voters who went with Washington in the playoff seedings vote but have changed their votes to Cleveland for the vote off.....so far.

In a vote that is now standing Cleveland 10 Washington 7 that's pretty significant!!

Also, not unexpected as I predicted this to people in PM's just after voting opened.

I thought about it honestly Nick... but went with Washington. I don't think switching should be taken with any sort of ill-will.

CLE & WASH (and NY & MIL, imo) are good teams who each have some serious question marks. In a 1-game playoff it's a tossup, if we just reevaluate who does better over a 82 game season, it's a toss up.

I seriously considered switching b/c Devin Harris is a real X-factor IMO, he's talking about really trying to improve his leadership this year, and I think CLE is a little bit deeper than WASH (guys like LRMAM, Rush, Bell, williams, Blatche are nice young players).

But I like WASH's difference makers (Jackson, WAllace, Scola) just a little more than CLE's (Harris, Crawford, West, Bogut) and expect JWright and Sessions to really improve this year.

I don't think there's a wrong vote, but this is how I saw it...

Well that's just it. There's no such thing as a one game playoff to determine the best team in the NBA.  So I think this thing should have been handled as if it were voting on who should have won the regular season because there were voting irregularities. If then everyone votes as they did in the regular vote, even those who's votes then didn't count, then we would see who would win. If some voters didn't make it the second time around, whatever.

But this was turned into a "who has the better team" vote, not a "who should have won the regular season vote". Given the facts that 4 days have passed since the first vote was cast, given that the reasoning for the vote was changed and given that in playing the game, critiquing others comes into effect and the effect those critiques can have on people can, even without them knowing it, changed their objectivity, I kinda knew I had little to no chance here and that a rash of votes would change. I predicted as such.

No hard feelings. I lose. Doesn't mean I have to be happy with the way it went down which I think was pretty rotten from a Washington POV but, oh well.

I hold nothing of what happened in this game against anyone, permanently. You play a game. You play it fierce, intense and to win. Sometimes you argue calls. Sometimes tempers flare. That's competition. After you shake hands, say great game and go get a bear together. Just like a pick up game down at the local Y or corner court or something.

Well you shake hands .... unless you're Lebron James. Glad we don't have that sore loser on our team 

And maybe it's a Washington Boxers thing but I've never gone out and gotten a bear after a game. Is that like wild-game hunting to replenish vitamins? 


And yes ultimately I treated it as a revote.... there were no compelling facts to make me switch votes (though like i said with such a close matchup there are probably people who felt not very strongly and on furhter reflection went with CLE).

Maybe that's more of a really old guy, really out of shape softball philosophy. After enough beers you forget what you were playing!!!

[KCattheStripe]

To the 29 other GMs and Edgar:

I'm hereby resigning my slot as co-GM of the Portland CrotoNats.  This game is no longer fun for me, primarily due to the behavior of a couple of individuals, one of whom has started conflict with no fewer than four GMs in this game.

At this point, I feel as though I can no longer both be a GM in this game and enforce the rules of this forum, as required by my title as Forums Manager.  Certain members are using my position as a GM to engage in rule-breaking behavior, including not limited to trolling, baiting, posting private messages, and lying about my actions to other members.

As such, effective immediately, Edgar will be the only GM of Portland.  I will continue to vote and to ask questions of the various GMs who have participated in this game in good faith.  I will not, however, be speaking on Portland's behalf.

Best of luck, and to the 25+ GMs who have made this game a pleasure, I give you my sincere thanks.

-Roy

I'm sorry to hear that.

Agree.

Anything I tried to write just now came of sounding sanctimonious.
that said, it always bums me out tho when a group of people can't work it out amongst themselves... makes me less hopeful for the future.

I do hope folks will for the rest of this year and going into next remember that this is just a game and that if nothing else we agree on who the best "real" team is (hint: rhymes with "sell tix")

I hope perhaps Roy would reconsider and everyone would just let the game play out and but i don't hold out much hope for that unfortunately. At the very least though maybe we can all dial down the non-basketball arguing/snitiness.

If nothing else maybe a reminder to "do unto others..."?

Why can't all divisions be the 2008 Southeast?

[Gainesville Celtic]

some great matchups out west!

(BUF/UTAH):   BUFFALO (in 6)

(POR/GS):  PORTLAND (in 7)

(DAL/HOU):  HOUSTON (in 7)

(SEA/PHX):   SEATTLE (in 7, plus 4 OTs  )

POR/GS --- GS is a great 1st round opponent vs. POR. I agree that GS' frontline provides some good matchups (Deng is a great cover for Lewis, Okur can draw Shaq out of the paint). But POR's depth comes into play. Shaq sits more, Lewis and Gomes matchup better vs. Boozer/Deng. W/o a guy like Gomes POR can't do that. It's a tough back and forth series, but POR pulls it out.

Wait Gomes and Lewis is a good matchup against Deng/Boozer? Seriously, if either one of his guys is guarding Boozer it's either 2 points or a foul. Deng can guard Lewis, and  Boozer can stick with Gomes because he mostly just fires up jumpers now a days (he also scores on good hustle rebounds, but that's not going to work against someone of Boozer's size and strengh).
What about the Nash Bibby matchup? Can Mike Bibby guard Nash at all? at all? the answer is no.

I agree re: Nash/Bibby.... which is what made me think very long and hard about having GSW winning it. I think Nash is a real X factor in this series. That said Evans, House, Tinsley are question marks as backups for Nash IMO and West is a solid veteran who will play some vs. Nash in this particular matchup.

What I meant re: Lewis/Gomes vs. Boozer/Deng was a counterpoint to your excellent point that Deng is a great matchup vs. Lewis. If Lewis plays 30 mpg at SF i think POR loses, but I think b/c of the Deng matchup they move Lewis to PF and bring in Gomes (more like ORL used Lewis as a "Forward" rather than SF or PF). Boozer's offensive game isn't based as much as postup strenght as I'd expect from a guy of his size, and while Lewis couldn't guard him straight up, his length could slow him enough.

Putting Gomes in with Lewis would pull Boozer from the paint leaving more room for either O'Neal to rebound vs. Okur.

it's a real close matchup and if i was forced to I could probably argue GSW winning in 7 too (which is why i put how many games the series went). In a close series, depth, experience and reliablity are what make the difference. I'm not one who thinks PORT is invincible... it's like others have said: An unfortunate draw for GSW in the first round.

[Roy Hobbs]

Vote Portland!!

Eh...  Portland's overrated. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u05Qot_yh9c

Vote Warriors!

[Gainesville Celtic]

To the 29 other GMs and Edgar:

I'm hereby resigning my slot as co-GM of the Portland CrotoNats.  This game is no longer fun for me, primarily due to the behavior of a couple of individuals, one of whom has started conflict with no fewer than four GMs in this game.

At this point, I feel as though I can no longer both be a GM in this game and enforce the rules of this forum, as required by my title as Forums Manager.  Certain members are using my position as a GM to engage in rule-breaking behavior, including not limited to trolling, baiting, posting private messages, and lying about my actions to other members.

As such, effective immediately, Edgar will be the only GM of Portland.  I will continue to vote and to ask questions of the various GMs who have participated in this game in good faith.  I will not, however, be speaking on Portland's behalf.

Best of luck, and to the 25+ GMs who have made this game a pleasure, I give you my sincere thanks.

-Roy

I'm sorry to hear that.

Agree.

Anything I tried to write just now came of sounding sanctimonious.
that said, it always bums me out tho when a group of people can't work it out amongst themselves... makes me less hopeful for the future.

I do hope folks will for the rest of this year and going into next remember that this is just a game and that if nothing else we agree on who the best "real" team is (hint: rhymes with "sell tix")

I hope perhaps Roy would reconsider and everyone would just let the game play out and but i don't hold out much hope for that unfortunately. At the very least though maybe we can all dial down the non-basketball arguing/snitiness.

If nothing else maybe a reminder to "do unto others..."?

Why can't all divisions be the 2008 Southeast?

Those were the days, huh, KC?   

Southeast GMs were a pleasure again this year, but We missed a little of the playful spark we had last year without you and with Lucky a co-GM.

[Gainesville Celtic]

Well that's four voters who went with Washington in the playoff seedings vote but have changed their votes to Cleveland for the vote off.....so far.

In a vote that is now standing Cleveland 10 Washington 7 that's pretty significant!!

Also, not unexpected as I predicted this to people in PM's just after voting opened.

I thought about it honestly Nick... but went with Washington. I don't think switching should be taken with any sort of ill-will.

CLE & WASH (and NY & MIL, imo) are good teams who each have some serious question marks. In a 1-game playoff it's a tossup, if we just reevaluate who does better over a 82 game season, it's a toss up.

I seriously considered switching b/c Devin Harris is a real X-factor IMO, he's talking about really trying to improve his leadership this year, and I think CLE is a little bit deeper than WASH (guys like LRMAM, Rush, Bell, williams, Blatche are nice young players).

But I like WASH's difference makers (Jackson, WAllace, Scola) just a little more than CLE's (Harris, Crawford, West, Bogut) and expect JWright and Sessions to really improve this year.

I don't think there's a wrong vote, but this is how I saw it...

Well that's just it. There's no such thing as a one game playoff to determine the best team in the NBA.  So I think this thing should have been handled as if it were voting on who should have won the regular season because there were voting irregularities. If then everyone votes as they did in the regular vote, even those who's votes then didn't count, then we would see who would win. If some voters didn't make it the second time around, whatever.

But this was turned into a "who has the better team" vote, not a "who should have won the regular season vote". Given the facts that 4 days have passed since the first vote was cast, given that the reasoning for the vote was changed and given that in playing the game, critiquing others comes into effect and the effect those critiques can have on people can, even without them knowing it, changed their objectivity, I kinda knew I had little to no chance here and that a rash of votes would change. I predicted as such.

No hard feelings. I lose. Doesn't mean I have to be happy with the way it went down which I think was pretty rotten from a Washington POV but, oh well.

I hold nothing of what happened in this game against anyone, permanently. You play a game. You play it fierce, intense and to win. Sometimes you argue calls. Sometimes tempers flare. That's competition. After you shake hands, say great game and go get a bear together. Just like a pick up game down at the local Y or corner court or something.

Well you shake hands .... unless you're Lebron James. Glad we don't have that sore loser on our team 

And maybe it's a Washington Boxers thing but I've never gone out and gotten a bear after a game. Is that like wild-game hunting to replenish vitamins? 


And yes ultimately I treated it as a revote.... there were no compelling facts to make me switch votes (though like i said with such a close matchup there are probably people who felt not very strongly and on furhter reflection went with CLE).

Maybe that's more of a really old guy, really out of shape softball philosophy. After enough beers you forget what you were playing!!!

Old guy?

Outta shape?

where do i sign up?!?! 

(you saw you typed bear not beer, right? that's what i was joking about...)