2009 Celticsblog Draft: Voting Analysis : Team of the Future

[JSD]

 

[Fafnir]

My reaction exactly! I've had fun lurking and occasionally commenting in this little game, didn't see that coming.

[Roy Hobbs]

My reaction exactly! I've had fun lurking and occasionally commenting in this little game, didn't see that coming.

Well, I've got to keep it entertaining for the people. 

In all honesty, though, I wasn't having a lot of fun.  Since my role as a staff member was being used against me (both publicly and privately) it was time to step down.

For anybody who doesn't like the drama, please be fair to Edgar.  He had an equal role in putting a very good Portland team together, and he shouldn't be punished because folks have a personal problem with me.

[nickagneta]

[dang] just lost a huge post that was pushing for people to vote Washington in the East vote off because of our superior rebounding, defense, excellent 3 point shooting off the bench and our versatility to go small ball with Scola at the 5. I extolled on the virtues of Stephen Jackson and his huge playoff series he had in 2003 versus Dallas, 2005 versus Boston and 2007 versus Dallas as well as his game deciding huge games he had in the deciding games of those series and lost it to cyberspace.

Then I come back in to try again and see this!!

[indeedproceed]

[dang] just lost a huge post that was pushing for people to vote Washington in the East vote off because of our superior rebounding, defense, excellent 3 point shooting off the bench and our versatility to go small ball with Scola at the 5. I extolled on the virtues of Stephen Jackson and his huge playoff series he had in 2003 versus Dallas, 2005 versus Boston and 2007 versus Dallas as well as his game deciding huge games he had in the deciding games of those series and lost it to cyberspace.

Then I come back in to try again and see this!!

Did your vote say anything about how you should have voted for Phoenix, not Seattle?

[nickagneta]

[dang] just lost a huge post that was pushing for people to vote Washington in the East vote off because of our superior rebounding, defense, excellent 3 point shooting off the bench and our versatility to go small ball with Scola at the 5. I extolled on the virtues of Stephen Jackson and his huge playoff series he had in 2003 versus Dallas, 2005 versus Boston and 2007 versus Dallas as well as his game deciding huge games he had in the deciding games of those series and lost it to cyberspace.

Then I come back in to try again and see this!!

Did your vote say anything about how you should have voted for Phoenix, not Seattle?

Sorry guy, rebounding and defense. rebounding and defense.

In Duncan(one of the 3 best players of the last 15 years with rings to prove it), Martin, Young Bass and Brewer I see better defense and rebounding up front and I thing ford is a tough matchup for Rondo until he can hit an outside shot with people sagging off him double Howard and Mason. I saw what Orlando did to Ray and Pierce forcing Rondo to shoot or go into the teeth of the Man and think Seattle does the same thing.

Your whole team revolves around Rondo's ability to overcome what Orlando showed needed to be done to beat a Rondo led team. But your team is unbelievably young and I think you easily win Future Team of the Year.

[indeedproceed]

Aw Nick...you should've brought these concerns to me earlier. The numbers speak for themselves!

Al Jefferson and Andris Biedrins both have higher rebounding rates and rebounds per game than any one person on the Sonics. Howard is a better rebounder than Brewer, and better than Young.

Aw nick. I know it was you. You broke my heart.

[nickagneta]

Aw Nick...you should've brought these concerns to me earlier. The numbers speak for themselves!

Al Jefferson and Andris Biedrins both have higher rebounding rates and rebounds per game than any one person on the Sonics. Howard is a better rebounder than Brewer, and better than Young.

Aw nick. I know it was you. You broke my heart.

This doesn't mean I sleep with the fishes? Does it?

[johnnyrondo]

Aw Nick...you should've brought these concerns to me earlier. The numbers speak for themselves!

Al Jefferson and Andris Biedrins both have higher rebounding rates and rebounds per game than any one person on the Sonics. Howard is a better rebounder than Brewer, and better than Young.

Aw nick. I know it was you. You broke my heart.

This doesn't mean I sleep with the fishes? Does it?

[nickagneta]

Well that's four voters who went with Washington in the playoff seedings vote but have changed their votes to Cleveland for the vote off.....so far.

In a vote that is now standing Cleveland 10 Washington 7 that's pretty significant!!

Also, not unexpected as I predicted this to people in PM's just after voting opened.

[Gainesville Celtic]

some great matchups out west!

(BUF/UTAH):   BUFFALO (in 6)

(POR/GS):  PORTLAND (in 7)

(DAL/HOU):  HOUSTON (in 7)

(SEA/PHX):   SEATTLE (in 7, plus 4 OTs  )

some thoughts .....

BUF/UTAH  --- i really like the UTAH team and vs. a diff. opponent they'd likely advance, but they just got a bad matchup. BUF is a well built team of shooters around Howard.

POR/GS --- GS is a great 1st round opponent vs. POR. I agree that GS' frontline provides some good matchups (Deng is a great cover for Lewis, Okur can draw Shaq out of the paint). But POR's depth comes into play. Shaq sits more, Lewis and Gomes matchup better vs. Boozer/Deng. W/o a guy like Gomes POR can't do that. It's a tough back and forth series, but POR pulls it out.

HOU/DEN -- in my mind this comes down to DAL not being able to deal with Joe Johnson (who is a terrific player). HOU's frontline is like the real San Antonio's has been: a bit anonymous, but solid. Nocioni & a recovered Leon Powe are x-factors too against Harrington/Marion. Age catches up with Kidd over a long season/series chasing Monta Ellis and Augstin around.

SEA/PHX --- an epic, that unlike the CHI/BOS series last year ends in a 4OT game. Reminds me of that SA/PHO series where Nash got the bloody nose, Amare suspended, etc.

PHX here maybe be ever so-slightly more talented, but their talent is also more volatile and SEA's talent more seasonsed.


But like the PHX/SA series, something(s) weird happens --- Rondo misses a game (like he very well could have with the Brad Miller foul), Nate Rob gets a tech at the wrong point in the game, SEA employes the Hack-a-Biedrins strategy and completely takes AB out of a game.... Sure KMart is a wild card but the vets keep him in line on SEA. Don't see Josh Howard or Oberto having a similar effect on the Suns.

I love Rondo and Al Jefferson (and Biedrins & JoHo is a great fit) and would LOVE to see them play a whole season together. PHX would be my #2 seed going into the 2010-2011 season (behind the Orlando Magics  ), i think they're just a season away.

[Evantime34]

some great matchups out west!

(BUF/UTAH):   BUFFALO (in 6)

(POR/GS):  PORTLAND (in 7)

(DAL/HOU):  HOUSTON (in 7)

(SEA/PHX):   SEATTLE (in 7, plus 4 OTs  )

POR/GS --- GS is a great 1st round opponent vs. POR. I agree that GS' frontline provides some good matchups (Deng is a great cover for Lewis, Okur can draw Shaq out of the paint). But POR's depth comes into play. Shaq sits more, Lewis and Gomes matchup better vs. Boozer/Deng. W/o a guy like Gomes POR can't do that. It's a tough back and forth series, but POR pulls it out.

Wait Gomes and Lewis is a good matchup against Deng/Boozer? Seriously, if either one of his guys is guarding Boozer it's either 2 points or a foul. Deng can guard Lewis, and  Boozer can stick with Gomes because he mostly just fires up jumpers now a days (he also scores on good hustle rebounds, but that's not going to work against someone of Boozer's size and strengh).
What about the Nash Bibby matchup? Can Mike Bibby guard Nash at all? at all? the answer is no.

[Gainesville Celtic]

Well that's four voters who went with Washington in the playoff seedings vote but have changed their votes to Cleveland for the vote off.....so far.

In a vote that is now standing Cleveland 10 Washington 7 that's pretty significant!!

Also, not unexpected as I predicted this to people in PM's just after voting opened.

I thought about it honestly Nick... but went with Washington. I don't think switching should be taken with any sort of ill-will.

CLE & WASH (and NY & MIL, imo) are good teams who each have some serious question marks. In a 1-game playoff it's a tossup, if we just reevaluate who does better over a 82 game season, it's a toss up.

I seriously considered switching b/c Devin Harris is a real X-factor IMO, he's talking about really trying to improve his leadership this year, and I think CLE is a little bit deeper than WASH (guys like LRMAM, Rush, Bell, williams, Blatche are nice young players).

But I like WASH's difference makers (Jackson, WAllace, Scola) just a little more than CLE's (Harris, Crawford, West, Bogut) and expect JWright and Sessions to really improve this year.

I don't think there's a wrong vote, but this is how I saw it...

[Gainesville Celtic]

some great matchups out west!

(BUF/UTAH):   BUFFALO (in 6)

(POR/GS):  PORTLAND (in 7)

(DAL/HOU):  HOUSTON (in 7)

(SEA/PHX):   SEATTLE (in 7, plus 4 OTs  )

POR/GS --- GS is a great 1st round opponent vs. POR. I agree that GS' frontline provides some good matchups (Deng is a great cover for Lewis, Okur can draw Shaq out of the paint). But POR's depth comes into play. Shaq sits more, Lewis and Gomes matchup better vs. Boozer/Deng. W/o a guy like Gomes POR can't do that. It's a tough back and forth series, but POR pulls it out.

Wait Gomes and Lewis is a good matchup against Deng/Boozer? Seriously, if either one of his guys is guarding Boozer it's either 2 points or a foul. Deng can guard Lewis, and  Boozer can stick with Gomes because he mostly just fires up jumpers now a days (he also scores on good hustle rebounds, but that's not going to work against someone of Boozer's size and strengh).
What about the Nash Bibby matchup? Can Mike Bibby guard Nash at all? at all? the answer is no.

I agree re: Nash/Bibby.... which is what made me think very long and hard about having GSW winning it. I think Nash is a real X factor in this series. That said Evans, House, Tinsley are question marks as backups for Nash IMO and West is a solid veteran who will play some vs. Nash in this particular matchup.

What I meant re: Lewis/Gomes vs. Boozer/Deng was a counterpoint to your excellent point that Deng is a great matchup vs. Lewis. If Lewis plays 30 mpg at SF i think POR loses, but I think b/c of the Deng matchup they move Lewis to PF and bring in Gomes (more like ORL used Lewis as a "Forward" rather than SF or PF). Boozer's offensive game isn't based as much as postup strenght as I'd expect from a guy of his size, and while Lewis couldn't guard him straight up, his length could slow him enough.

Putting Gomes in with Lewis would pull Boozer from the paint leaving more room for either O'Neal to rebound vs. Okur.


If i had had more time/board access today at work i could have asked about those matchups more, i had to go with my gut. I didn't take the matchup lightly...it's a real close matchup and if i was forced to I could probably argue GSW winning in 7 too (which is why i put how many games the series went). In a close series, depth, experience and reliablity are what make the difference. I'm not one who thinks PORT is invincible, more it's like others have said: An unfortunate draw for GSW in the first round.

[Evantime34]

some great matchups out west!

(BUF/UTAH):   BUFFALO (in 6)

(POR/GS):  PORTLAND (in 7)

(DAL/HOU):  HOUSTON (in 7)

(SEA/PHX):   SEATTLE (in 7, plus 4 OTs  )

POR/GS --- GS is a great 1st round opponent vs. POR. I agree that GS' frontline provides some good matchups (Deng is a great cover for Lewis, Okur can draw Shaq out of the paint). But POR's depth comes into play. Shaq sits more, Lewis and Gomes matchup better vs. Boozer/Deng. W/o a guy like Gomes POR can't do that. It's a tough back and forth series, but POR pulls it out.

Wait Gomes and Lewis is a good matchup against Deng/Boozer? Seriously, if either one of his guys is guarding Boozer it's either 2 points or a foul. Deng can guard Lewis, and  Boozer can stick with Gomes because he mostly just fires up jumpers now a days (he also scores on good hustle rebounds, but that's not going to work against someone of Boozer's size and strengh).
What about the Nash Bibby matchup? Can Mike Bibby guard Nash at all? at all? the answer is no.

I agree re: Nash/Bibby.... which is what made me think very long and hard about having GSW winning it. I think Nash is a real X factor in this series. That said Evans, House, Tinsley are question marks as backups for Nash IMO and West is a solid veteran who will play some vs. Nash in this particular matchup.

What I meant re: Lewis/Gomes vs. Boozer/Deng was a counterpoint to your excellent point that Deng is a great matchup vs. Lewis. If Lewis plays 30 mpg at SF i think POR loses, but I think b/c of the Deng matchup they move Lewis to PF and bring in Gomes (more like ORL used Lewis as a "Forward" rather than SF or PF). Boozer's offensive game isn't based as much as postup strenght as I'd expect from a guy of his size, and while Lewis couldn't guard him straight up, his length could slow him enough.

Putting Gomes in with Lewis would pull Boozer from the paint leaving more room for either O'Neal to rebound vs. Okur.


If i had had more time/board access today at work i could have asked about those matchups more, i had to go with my gut. I didn't take the matchup lightly...it's a real close matchup and if i was forced to I could probably argue GSW winning in 7 too (which is why i put how many games the series went). In a close series, depth, experience and reliablity are what make the difference. I'm not one who thinks PORT is invincible, more it's like others have said: An unfortunate draw for GSW in the first round.

Fair enough, I think Boozer scores more inside than you think. The reason he scores on jumpers is because he normally has bigger players on him in the post, in this match up he would go straight to the block.
I appreciate you saying that it would take 7 games though. Considering a lot of people did not think highly of my team, considering the 7th seed.