2009 Celticsblog Draft: Voting Analysis : Team of the Future

[The Walker Wiggle]

Yeah i hope i didn't sound too souwer grape-ish.  Congrats to Walker Wiggle who has a very nice "big three" and has always been good to deal with despite being my arch nemisis, haha.

Not at all. A lot of your arguments carry weight, and you have been a class act throughout. I was fully prepared for the voting to go either way, and would've loved to have sent two Southwest teams through to the second round, although we've been underestimated throughout (especially S.A.).

Silver lining, you've got a Southwest Division banner to hang. Everyone is lining me up for a stomping at the hands of a 37 year old prima donna.

OK Nick.  I like that explanation much better... One thing i will say is you're forgetting DeJuan Blair in Houston's rotaion, who would be expected to back up Bosh at the 4.  Also, i'll give you that Randolph and Andersen will "probably" produce, but relying on 3 unproven guys to all step up and give you quality minutes is dicey.  I think there's a better chance that one or two of those 3 don't live up to the hype as opposed to all 3 filling the big man rotation without a hiccup.

Also, I just want to tip my cap to Nick. Although, Nick, the generous Houston assessment doesn't get you off the hook for voting me through to the WCF. 

As for Randolph, Andersen and Blair, I'll certainly be interested to revisit their seasons at the All Star break. I expect to have two NBA starters and a rotation player. But since, I am still ostensibly in the playoffs I'd also point out that Nocioni is getting minutes at the 4, so I'm not relying on Blair for much. Also Clark is a combo-forward and Powe may be back in time for the playoffs, fingers crossed.

Take the wait-and-see approach at your own risk.

[Roy Hobbs]

Hey, guys, sorry to distract from the draft with something so mundane, but can you help the staff out with something fairly trivial?

Several of you the GMs in here have signatures that set forth their roster over five or more lines (which makes sense, since there are five starting positions per team).  However, unfortunately that conflicts with our posting rules, which state that signatures:

Must be kept to a maximum of four lines (at 1024 resolution).

(The same thing goes for signatures that are too big, etc.)

Sorry for the minor inconvenience.  We're trying to clean the board up as we get closer to the season, and things are kind of slow today, so it was a good day to begin.

We've already contacted about 15 or so members about their sigs, but to save us some work, please help out.  Thanks.

-Roy

[nickagneta]

Here's Kidd's numbers versus the opposition, PG's on a Per 48 basis:

http://www.82games.com/0809/08DAL1.HTM

He gives up 11 more PP48M than he scores versus PG's. What's he going to do versus Joe Johnson? Forget +/- it is the absolute worse stat they have because it relies on the players around them not on their defensive abilities. Kidd was getting his All Defensive Team votes well beyond the year he was even a decent defensive player. My eyes can observe him to be a horrible defensive player now.

And you tone makes it sound as if Lee is some superstar. He was a free agent and could get anywhere near a good offer. Against PFs, which Houston really only has, he is awful. Here's his Per48 stats versus opposition. It isn't very flattering.

And when did Dalmebert become Hakeem Olajawan? He's lazy, unmotivated, and big. Reminds me of the Kandiman or Kwame Brown not like someone an athletic, powerful PF would have to much trouble with.

Listen, I'm sorry you lost. Hell, I'm sorry I lost. But it's pretty obvious more people felt like I did than the way you did. You didn't have what it took at the top of the lineup and had some chemistry problems and matchup problems. Better luck in the sim or next year. You ran a good race and put together a decent team. Just some teams are more decent than others.

[nickagneta]

Oh I forgot to add, TPs to riah and jgod for jobs well done. And congrats on the playoff team jgod. I think you would have beaten Utah if that's any consolation.

[nickagneta]

On a different subject, I think the East is going pretty much as I expected. Orlando, Chicago and Toronto in a cakewalk and Boston/Philly in a tough close call. Of course I think that sets up a predictable Toronto over Chicago and Orlando over the Bos/Phil winner. Why?

Toronto's defensive front line negates Chicago's front line and Toronto's overall depth 1-9 way overcomes the slight advantage Chicago had 1-5.

Neither Boston nor Philly have what it takes to shut down LeBron and force the other guys on Orlando to win the game for the Magic. There are only two teams in playoff contention in the East with enough defense and physicality at the 3 spot to beat Orlando. They were/are Toronto and Washington.

Going to be a great ECF with Orlando and Toronto though. IMHO.

[jgod213]

Here's Kidd's numbers versus the opposition, PG's on a Per 48 basis:

http://www.82games.com/0809/08DAL1.HTM

He gives up 11 more PP48M than he scores versus PG's. What's he going to do versus Joe Johnson? Forget +/- it is the absolute worse stat they have because it relies on the players around them not on their defensive abilities. Kidd was getting his All Defensive Team votes well beyond the year he was even a decent defensive player. My eyes can observe him to be a horrible defensive player now.

And you tone makes it sound as if Lee is some superstar. He was a free agent and could get anywhere near a good offer. Against PFs, which Houston really only has, he is awful. Here's his Per48 stats versus opposition. It isn't very flattering.

And when did Dalmebert become Hakeem Olajawan? He's lazy, unmotivated, and big. Reminds me of the Kandiman or Kwame Brown not like someone an athletic, powerful PF would have to much trouble with.

Listen, I'm sorry you lost. Hell, I'm sorry I lost. But it's pretty obvious more people felt like I did than the way you did. You didn't have what it took at the top of the lineup and had some chemistry problems and matchup problems. Better luck in the sim or next year. You ran a good race and put together a decent team. Just some teams are more decent than others.

Lee isn't as dominating as Bosh, but when you check out what he did matched up against him directly, it's impressive to say the least.

Also didn't mean to insinuate that Dalembert is the next coming, but i wouldn't imagine he would have much trouble grabbing rebounds and posting up under the hoop against a center he outweights by probably about 50 pounds.  Not sure the Kandi/Kwame comparisons are fair to him either.

Alright well i'm about done defending a team that essentially no longer exists, haha.  Say what you will about my chemistry and matchup problems, but i was perfectly fine w/ my team's chemistry with a leader like Kidd and thought my team would force way more matchup issues, from both starters and bench players, then my opponents.  But hey, as WW said, at least i get to hang a "Dallas Mavericks 2009 FCB SW Division Winner" Banner in my sig next year.  Not a bad consolation prize.

[jgod213]

When does the second round voting start - tomorrow?

[Roy Hobbs]

Neither Boston nor Philly have what it takes to shut down LeBron and force the other guys on Orlando to win the game for the Magic.

I'm not so sure about that.  Can't Philly simply try to shut the lane down on Lebron -- with two capable big men as defenders -- and then have Carmelo play him one-on-one?  Also, Ronnie Brewer is 6'7", and an excellent defender.  He'll be able to slow down Lebron a bit, I think.

Personally, I think Philly is a very tough matchup for that particular Orlando team.

[Rondo2287]

Brief look at a possible Matchup with Chicago. 
I love my matchups on the frontline as well as my matchup of Artest and Bell, Bell cannot cover a bigger artest, its as simple as that.  And on the Defensive end I plan on matching up Garcia on Bell since Bell really is only a threat from the Perimeter and matching up Artest on Martin. 

Garnett vs Pau
Garnett leads 15-6
Ganett-24 ppg, 13.4 Rpg, 5.1 Ass, 1.3 ste, 1.8 blk
Gasol- 18 ppg, 8 rpb, 2.6 ass, .7 steals, 1.6 blk

Camby vs Horford
Camby leads 2-1
Camby 11 ppg, 13.3 rpg, 4.3 Ass, 1.7 st, 1.7 blk
Horford 11.3ppg, 8 rpg, 2.3 ass, 2.3 st, 1.0 blk

Artest Vs Bell
Artest leads 8-7
Artest 16 ppg, 6 rpg, 3 ass, 2.7 st, .7 blk
Bell 9.5 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 1.7 ass, .9 stl, .3 blk

Martin and Garcia never played eachother because they are on the same team. 

Paul vs Miller
Paul leads 3-5
Miller 19ppg, 4.6 rpg, 5.4 Ass, 1.1 stl, .3 blk
Paul   15 ppg, 5.4,    8.4 ass, 3.1 stl, .1 blk

So obviously chris Paul outclasses Miller with the Assists and Steals, but its not as much of a gap as people might think. 


But for An offensive powerhouse team, My team leads the PPG in the one on one matchups in 4 of the 5 starting spots.  A real testament to the Defense I have constructed here I believe. 

[Rondo2287]

Any thoughts?

[nickagneta]

Neither Boston nor Philly have what it takes to shut down LeBron and force the other guys on Orlando to win the game for the Magic.

I'm not so sure about that.  Can't Philly simply try to shut the lane down on Lebron -- with two capable big men as defenders -- and then have Carmelo play him one-on-one?  Also, Ronnie Brewer is 6'7", and an excellent defender.  He'll be able to slow down Lebron a bit, I think.

Personally, I think Philly is a very tough matchup for that particular Orlando team.

Honestly, I guess Philly could but I think Villanueva helps to spread the floor for Orlando enough to pull Okafor out of the paint and that opens up the middle for LeBron. Okafor is an excellent weak side shot blocker though so maybe he has what it takes to get back and bother Lebron's attempts into the paint.

As for the Anthony/Brewer combo on Lebron, I like Brewer a lot but I'm not sure he's thick and strong enough to effect LeBron. And I don't think either have the defensively tough mentality that a Wallace or Artest or Pierce or Posey or Battier bring that would give LeBron fits in a 7 game series. Philly matches up better than Boston against Orlando, that's for sure, but I don't think they have the package to pull it off at the SF spot.

[Roy Hobbs]

Any thoughts?

I think Toronto beats Chicago in 6.

[nickagneta]

Any thoughts?

I think Toronto beats Chicago in 6.

Maybe 5 but probably in 6 back at their home court. Gotta agree. Toronto in 6.

[nickagneta]

Has the voting interest seemed to dissipate in past years like it appears it is this year? or is this about what it always is?

[Roy Hobbs]

Has the voting interest seemed to dissipate in past years like it appears it is this year? or is this about what it always is?

This is the first year there were actual playoffs.

In Year One, there was no voting.

In Year Two, there was voting for division winners and playoff teams, but interest died after that (and there was a lot of controversy, imagine that).

In both of those years, though, interest definitely died down, which is one of the reasons I think Dons has had a fairly aggressive schedule in moving things forward.