2009 Celticsblog Draft: Voting Analysis : Team of the Future

[Kwhit10]

I do follow alot of your thinking Philly.  My only question is how do you feel about the Brewer J-rich matchup? since J-rich is probably gonna be the second guy Orlando looks to for scoring

I love Brewer on Richardson.  I think Richardson is really going to have to work for his points battling Brewer and Parker.  His averages went down verse both of those players last year (12ppg and 13ppg as opposed to 17ppg).

[indeedproceed]

Yo man check the stats, I said, Paul outclasses him in steals and Assists, But in their matchups, Miller has outscored Paul and rebounding is consistant.  And I just think there was alot of talk about my team being weak offensively but when you line me up against one of the offensive powerhouse teams like Chicago, Toronto's starters have outscored Chicagos by 17 in head to head matchups


This is without Kevin Martin and Garcia, but I doubt with Artest Covering Martin he will be able to outscore Garcia by more than 17 and then you add in my bench on top of the starters....

Do you believe Chris Paul is the best point guard in basketball?

[Rondo2287]

Yo man check the stats, I said, Paul outclasses him in steals and Assists, But in their matchups, Miller has outscored Paul and rebounding is consistant.  And I just think there was alot of talk about my team being weak offensively but when you line me up against one of the offensive powerhouse teams like Chicago, Toronto's starters have outscored Chicagos by 17 in head to head matchups


This is without Kevin Martin and Garcia, but I doubt with Artest Covering Martin he will be able to outscore Garcia by more than 17 and then you add in my bench on top of the starters....

Do you believe Chris Paul is the best point guard in basketball?

Absolutely, since the celts cut Gabe Pruitt,  But ya I believe he is a better player, however I am just pointing out that in their history it isnt as one sided as name recognition would have people believe

[indeedproceed]

So is it much of a reach to think that the best point guard in basketball can't significantly up his level of play against a slower Andre Miller?

[Rondo2287]

Yes because in their previous history he hasnt.  In fact Miller has held him in check

Again I think its easy to let name recognition take over, but to be fair, Miller has done a great job on him.  Miller held his Scoring and Assist totals to well under his season averages. 

[Rondo2287]

These are the lifetime stats

Paul vs Miller
Paul leads 3-5
Miller 19ppg, 4.6 rpg, 5.4 Ass, 1.1 stl, .3 blk
Paul   15 ppg, 5.4,    8.4 ass, 3.1 stl, .1 blk

[indeedproceed]

These are the lifetime stats

Paul vs Miller
Paul leads 3-5
Miller 19ppg, 4.6 rpg, 5.4 Ass, 1.1 stl, .3 blk
Paul   15 ppg, 5.4,    8.4 ass, 3.1 stl, .1 blk

You know what, you believed in Big Al's numbers against Tim Duncan. I can't fault you for something I preached.

Fine, Chris Paul is not all world against Andre Miller.

[indeedproceed]

What, you get me to concede on a major point in your argument and you say nothing? People really don't care huh?

[Rondo2287]

I care i just didnt want to gloat!

[Rondo2287]

K, Night guys, cant wait for round two to start tomorrow!

[wdleehi]

K, Night guys, cant wait for round two to start tomorrow!

Aren't you afraid if you sign off now, the competition will start a big movement from not playing members that will take the vote?

[Edgar]

To all of u out there who are awake only when Edgar is
Please please please

Vote Portland CrotorNats on CB fake league second round playoffs!!!!!!

[Roy Hobbs]

Portland Trailblazers (Edgar)- Shaquille O'Neal, Jermaine O'Neal, Rashard Lewis, Michael Redd, Mike Bibby, Manu Ginobili, Brad Miller, Delonte West, Ryan Gomes, Ronny Turiaf, Jrue Holiday, Quinton Ross, Jared Dudley, Fred Jones, Taj Gibson


Houston Rockets (The Walker Wiggle)- Chris Bosh, Joe Johnson, Monta Ellis, Anthony Randolph, Grant Hill, Andres Nocioni, D.J. Augustin, Earl Clark, Dejuan Blair, David Anderson, Marcus Thornton, Leon Powe, Bobby Jackson, Dajuan Summers

Why Edgar wins this matchup:

A lot of people have picked Houston as a favorite for the Western Conference Finals (despite them earning a #6 seed), and I'm not quite sure why.  Their team has six rookies, two second year players, Leon Powe, a 37 year old small forward, and a bunch of guys who have never won squat.

Center:

Here's the biggest problem for Wiggle.  His centers are a combination of Anthony Randolph, Chris Bosh, and David Andersen.

Anthony Randolph:  6'10", 205 pounds.  He played 5% of the Warriors minutes at center last year.  During that time, opposing centers shot 63.0% against him.  Obviously, this is too small of a sample size, and there's a reason for that:  not even Don Nelson is crazy enough to give Anthony Randolph significant minutes at center.

Chris Bosh:  Another guy who isn't a center.  Last time he tried to guard Shaq one-on-one (after the J.O. deal), the results were absolutely disastrous for Toronto.  Shaq shot 20-for-25, scored 45 points, and collected 11 rebounds.  Here's what Bosh's coach said afterward:

"He's just so strong and pushes guys right under the basket and gets inside," Toronto coach Jay Triano said. "We have no match for him."

Here's what Shaq said about the match up:

"I heard what Chris Bosh said, and that's strong words coming from the RuPaul of big men," O'Neal said. "I'm going to do the same thing (in their next meeting) I did before -- make him quit. Make 'em quit and complain. It's what I do."

If Toronto's coach in "real life" admits that Bosh can't defend Shaq, I'm not sure why that changes in fantasy world.  It's not like this game is ancient history; it was five months ago.

David Andersen:  "Andersen isn't a banging center, and is more of a finesse player than Yao."  Enough said.

None of those players can match up with any of Shaq, J.O., Brad Miller, or Ronny Turiaf (who won't see time, but still).

Power forward:

See, Center.  The other power forwards in this matchup are Rashard Lewis and Ryan Gomes vs. Andres Nocioni and Leon Powe.  Advantage, Edgar.

Small Forward:

Rashard Lewis is taller, much more athletic, much younger, and better than Grant Hill.

Shooting Guard:

People like to genuflect at the altar of Joe Johnson.  However, here's the thing:  he's not as good as Michael Redd.  In fact, Michael Redd has absolutely owned their individual matchup, especially recently.

Over the course of their careers, Redd is outscoring Johnson 20.3 vs. 16.0 in their matchups.  More importantly, going back to 2004, Redd has outscored Johnson in 11 out of 12 matchups. 

Also, of course, there's Manu Ginobili, somebody that Houston has no answer for.  Manu set his career high of 48 points when being guarded by . . . Joe Johnson.  He also had another game where he dropped 40 on Johnson's head.

Point guard::  This one isn't a great matchup for Edgar, but still, in their careers Bibby holds a 15.9 to 15.3 points per game advantage over Ellis.  However, to the extent that Walker Wiggle has an advantage anywhere, it's that Ellis is a penetrating point guard, and Bibby could have trouble with him.

As for Delonte vs. D.J., it's hard to say how the two match up, as they've never gone head-to-head.  However, Delonte is a good hustle defender who gives other teams fits. 

All in all, I could easily see this one being an Edgar sweep.  At worst, Portland in five.

I'll try to be back with my thoughts on the other Finals matchups.  I think Toronto will abuse Chicago.  The other two, though, could be barn burners.

To all of u out there who are awake only when Edgar is
Please please please

Vote Portland CrotorNats on CB fake league second round playoffs!!!!!!

You've got my vote.

[The Walker Wiggle]

Why Edgar wins this matchup:

A lot of people have picked Houston as a favorite for the Western Conference Finals (despite them earning a #6 seed), and I'm not quite sure why.  Their team has six rookies, two second year players, Leon Powe, a 37 year old small forward, and a bunch of guys who have never won squat.

Center:

Here's the biggest problem for Wiggle.  His centers are a combination of Anthony Randolph, Chris Bosh, and David Andersen.

Well, the position by position break down was impressive, of course I've got some thoughts of my own.

One month earlier, Bosh performed better against the future reality TV star, 20 points, 12 rebounds versus O'Neal's 16 points and 4 rebounds. (To be fair, Shaq was playing with a hamburger in his left hand.)

But what do Phoenix Suns bloggers think of Shaq?

While some didn't like the Shaq trade because it was just about money...I loved it and believe that this is a case of addition by subtraction.

Here's another post with some apropos edits by yours truly.

In the end though, despite his resurgence, Shaq's time in this league is past. It is a mobile big man's game now in a league dominated by penetrating speedy guards.

Kerr is responsible for assembling the combination of a below average defensive point guard [Bibby?!], a defensively challenged power forward [Rashard Lewis!?] and a big man who's mind is in the right place but who's 330 lbs are simply to big to trap and recover in the pick and roll dominated game [Still Shaq  ]

Here's what Shaq's former GM says.

One of the things you have to do in this league is you have to have active big guys. There's a reason Boston was so good defensively...Those guys jump out on pick and rolls, they trap, they recover and protect the rim...We're trying to get more mobile on the interior.

Supposedly Shaq offered to go on a diet, but Kerr decided to go in another direction...

Still O'Neal is absolutely a bad match up for us. But I take some consolation in the fact that he averaged only 30 mpg in '08-'09 and will likely need that number to come down again next season. And since he can't make his free throws, play transition defense or guard the high pick and roll or screens, his conditioning isn't the only reason he'll find himself on the bench.

And so what about the rest of Portland's touted front court?

Bosh ran rough shod over Brad Miller last season going for 31 twice and averaging 24 ppg and 12.3 rpg vs 16 ppg and 8 rpg in four match ups.

Brad is a reserve, you say, what about Jermaine O'Neal, you ask? Well Bosh hung 34 points on him, while shooting 57%. Jermaine managed 8 points on 31% shooting. That was their only match up because O'Neal wisely sat out the rest...

Ok no help there. But Rashard Lewis will do it to RuPaul won't he? Bosh in wig, make up and high heels put up 40 points on 74% shooting and 18 rebounds on Sweet Lew in their first match-up last season and over four meetings averaged 24.5 ppg and 12.8 rpg to Lewis's 18.8 ppg and 7.3 rpg.

[Edgar]

just for the record Mike Bibby outplayed every single PG last year.

yes

His backup is Delonte West