Celtics make offer to Maggette!!! / Spurs in lead to get him? (merged)

[celts34pats55]

NO WAY RAY RAY IS GETTING TRADED.  It just won't happen.  1.  He helped win the finals.  2.  Danny couldn't do that to him. 

i'm sorry but you can't get too attached to a player just because you like him
if trading ray can make our team better, than why not
if we could get some nice pieces for ray right now and bring in maggette to play ray's role i just might do it

[cordobes]

I'd rather have Posey.  And my guess is that B-diddy walked away from 18 million to become a Laker, not a Clipper, so I don't see Maggette settling for the MLE.

I think you're right about that. The Baron-to-Clippers story is unlikely to happen. Then what do they do? They resign Maggette at a higher price than the MLE.

Why are there no Arenas to the Clippers stories? They tried before.

How's that? Will the Lakers offer Odom for a S&T? What else? And who resigns Maggette at a higher price? If the Clippers want to sign Davis, they'll have to renounce Maggette's rights.

[winsomme]

I'd rather have Posey.  And my guess is that B-diddy walked away from 18 million to become a Laker, not a Clipper, so I don't see Maggette settling for the MLE.

...your guess would be wrong, Davis is heading to the Clippers...

As far as Maggette goes, there are a number of reasons he's a good fit in Boston:

1. Multi-positional ability. Athletic enough to play the 2 or the 3 while strong enough to BS at the 4 situationally in a small lineup

2. Backing up both Pierce and Allen allows for around 30-36 mpg as Boston would be able to keep PP/RA at around 30-33 mpg during the regular season and could pick-and-choose between 3 players, keeping the hot-hand on the court at all times..

3. Maggette has a limited market available to him, and while he can probably get a bit over the MLE, it is very possible that those offers won't be there. Whatever is on the table, it may not be appreciably better than a 4-5 year deal at 5.8 million

4. While Posey is the proven role player, Maggette is a better value if it comes down to years...Posey makes sense for 2-3 years to support GPA, Maggette makes sense 4-5 years to supplant GPA and help Rondo...he'll be 33 in 5 seasons and would come off the books right after KG, so those extra 2 years of,(theoretical) prime count for a lot.

5. Bill Walker and JR Giddens would have a full 2-3 years to develop without being pressed into duty..they'd be injury/ineffectiveness insurance and could simply learn on the job by spending TC with the team, going to the D-league, and visiting with the team intermittently for progress reports and further instruction. THIS IS THE CELTIC DYNASTY WAY--watch, learn, prepare for transition...

Maggette isn't as good of a 3 point shooter as Posey, though he matched his percentage last year. But Maggette gets to the line and would be THE primary scorer off the bench and would have plenty of minutes available to him.

my problem if it comes down to Posey v. Maggette is defense and big game play. Maggette is just not the defender of a Posey, especially at the SF spot and MAggette is totally untested in the heat and pressure of big games.

Posey's ability to perform in high pressure situations is hard to put a price tag on.

Maggette is a legit starter in this league and Posey at this point is probably not, so that makes it appear that you are getting more for your dollar, but IMO you don't need to have a guy come off the bench that you can turn the offense over to...it would be nice to have, but it's not necessary. don't forget that Rondo is also becoming a better and better scorer too...

what is necessary is the lock down defense and the ability to hit big shots and Posey is proven in both departments.

[Donoghus]

More celtics talk tonight at 10 on comcast if no one believes me. 

Holley speculated it and Felger endorsed the idea of trading Ray Allen. Just watched the 7pm replay.  It's just an idea floated out there by  a couple of non-basketball writers or insiders.  Just like what us bloggers do. 

[cordobes]

I guess I'd rather have Corey, mostly because of the "future" thing, but I can't see Maggette playing as a sub for the MLE. If he can't get better offers, and it's not hard to imagine he won't, he'll probably go to Orlando or another fringe contender where he can play a major role and raise his stock.

[JudsonMerrill]

Okay, so what needs to actually happen.

1) Clippers need to sign B. Davis to some huge contract. To do so, they have to renounce Maggette, eliminating all sign and trades.
2) Atlanta's ownership needs to self destruct and let the Sixers take Josh Smith. That takes care of Philly's money.
3) Maggette gets a handful of 5-year MLE offers and, for some reason, chooses ours.

I guess that's a pretty remote series of events.

Where'd I put my Posey jersey?

I guess worst case scenario is this should kill Bartelstein's idea of wringing a 5-year MLE from us for 41.

[cordobes]

Okay, so what needs to actually happen.

1) Clippers need to sign B. Davis to some huge contract. To do so, they have to renounce Maggette, eliminating all sign and trades.
2) Atlanta's ownership needs to self destruct and let the Sixers take Josh Smith. That takes care of Philly's money.
3) Maggette gets a handful of 5-year MLE offers and, for some reason, chooses ours.

I guess that's a pretty remote series of events.

Where'd I put my Posey jersey?

I guess worst case scenario is this should kill Bartelstein's idea of wringing a 5-year MLE from us for 41.

Good post.

1) Can see that happen.
2) Wild shot. But Atlanta ownership messing up wouldn't be such a surprise and Philly may opt to spend their money more wisely - even if it means saving it. Aren't they resigning Iggy?
3) I'm trying to think about a reason that makes sense... a ring sure? coming off the bench... nah...

[BudweiserCeltic]

I guess I'd rather have Corey, mostly because of the "future" thing, but I can't see Maggette playing as a sub for the MLE. If he can't get better offers, and it's not hard to imagine he won't, he'll probably go to Orlando or another fringe contender where he can play a major role and raise his stock.

This is exactly the way I see it. But not for the future thing, just because I think Maggette is the superior talent, and Posey's advantage on defense over Maggette doesn't make for Maggette's superiority offensively. Now Maggette is a real legit scorer off the bench for us. How many times did we sent out a 2nd unit that simply sucked because it couldn't score... how many leads did they give away vs. the times they brought us back into games?

We'll see who actually makes offers for him.

I don't think Corey signs more than a 2 year MLE deal by the way. I think he'd take a one-year deal most probably.

[winsomme]

I guess I'd rather have Corey, mostly because of the "future" thing, but I can't see Maggette playing as a sub for the MLE. If he can't get better offers, and it's not hard to imagine he won't, he'll probably go to Orlando or another fringe contender where he can play a major role and raise his stock.

Well playing a bench role on the Cs certainly increased Posey's value, so it's possible to look at coming here as a way to raise his stock. either way, i would be surprised if Maggette takes a long term deal at the MLE...

[Who]

I'd rather have Posey.  And my guess is that B-diddy walked away from 18 million to become a Laker, not a Clipper, so I don't see Maggette settling for the MLE.

I think you're right about that. The Baron-to-Clippers story is unlikely to happen. Then what do they do? They resign Maggette at a higher price than the MLE.

Why are there no Arenas to the Clippers stories? They tried before.

How's that? Will the Lakers offer Odom for a S&T? What else? And who resigns Maggette at a higher price? If the Clippers want to sign Davis, they'll have to renounce Maggette's rights.

I just don't think it's likely Baron signs on with the Clippers. It's definitely possible but I don't believe it to be likely, too many things need to happen at the same time.

I think Brick is right with the Clippers part, the Lakers part I don't care too much about and didn't think on .... but it's more likely than him signing with the Clippers - they're not trying to resign Brand while convincing Baron to join ... and they have an NBA Finals team, Kobe Bryant and the two best big men he'll have ever player with to offer Baron right off the bat. That's a good offer. Gaining Odom in a sign and trade is a good deal for the Warriors too.

[winsomme]

Okay, so what needs to actually happen.

1) Clippers need to sign B. Davis to some huge contract. To do so, they have to renounce Maggette, eliminating all sign and trades.
2) Atlanta's ownership needs to self destruct and let the Sixers take Josh Smith. That takes care of Philly's money.
3) Maggette gets a handful of 5-year MLE offers and, for some reason, chooses ours.

I guess that's a pretty remote series of events.

Where'd I put my Posey jersey?

I guess worst case scenario is this should kill Bartelstein's idea of wringing a 5-year MLE from us for 41.

but if you were Maggette, wouldn't you rather take a deal like Posey had this season (a year and a player option) increase your stock and go again next year?

[Who]

I guess I'd rather have Corey, mostly because of the "future" thing, but I can't see Maggette playing as a sub for the MLE. If he can't get better offers, and it's not hard to imagine he won't, he'll probably go to Orlando or another fringe contender where he can play a major role and raise his stock.

Well playing a bench role on the Cs certainly increased Posey's value, so it's possible to look at coming here as a way to raise his stock. either way, i would be surprised if Maggette takes a long term deal at the MLE...

Different type of player. Maggette needs touches, shots and opportunities to take over to prove his value. Posey needs to do role player things to improve his value. If Maggette were coming here for Ray's starting spot, now that would improve his value, but a bench role I don't see it.

[BBS]

What if Ray Wants to be traded? Closer to his family. After what he delt with during the finals can't say I would blame him

[LarBrd33]

I jumped into this thread late.  Are you guys really talking about trading Ray Allen after he just helped us win our first championship in 20+ years?  Really?  He was arguably the best player in the finals.  Guy shot like 52% and 53% from three.   You wanna mess up this team?  Really???

[winsomme]

I guess I'd rather have Corey, mostly because of the "future" thing, but I can't see Maggette playing as a sub for the MLE. If he can't get better offers, and it's not hard to imagine he won't, he'll probably go to Orlando or another fringe contender where he can play a major role and raise his stock.

Well playing a bench role on the Cs certainly increased Posey's value, so it's possible to look at coming here as a way to raise his stock. either way, i would be surprised if Maggette takes a long term deal at the MLE...

Different type of player. Maggette needs touches, shots and opportunities to take over to prove his value. Posey needs to do role player things to improve his value. If Maggette were coming here for Ray's starting spot, now that would improve his value, but a bench role I don't see it.

but the point i'm making is that if Maggette came here and played well and helped us win a Title, it would help his stock.

whether he is capable of helping us off the bench is a different question.

like i said in my other post, from a Cs standpoint, if it is Posey v. Maggette, i would prefer Posey based on needs.

but i still think Maggette could be successful here and i think it could help his stock around the league. i mean, one complaint about him is that he is a me-first guy. winning a Title in our team oriented system could help dispel that notion.

also, Posey is going to get looks around the league as a starter even though his role here was off the bench.