I dislike Kyrie(merged threads)

[IDreamCeltics]

I thought Kyrie was vastly overrated by Celtics fans and management from the time of the trade until the final game of the Bucks series. 

Now that he's gone though, I see no reason to dwell on his insufficiencies.  They're on full display.  Brooklyn is 1-3 and Kyrie has his wish of playing for a team that will let him take 30 shots a game.   

The Celtics on the other hand - despite losing 3 starters from last year's team - Are 3-1 and are not missing Kyrie at all. 

Kyrie simply is what he is.  If you follow basketball his tumultuous stay in Boston shouldn't have surprised you in the first place.   

[celticsclay]

Against all odds somehow we ruined the Nets for another half-decade. Amazing.

Lol yes, they were so likeable last year too.

[RockinRyA]

Against all odds somehow we ruined the Nets for another half-decade. Amazing.

Lol yes, they were so likeable last year too.

Reading from the Nets forums though, it doesnt seem like they blame or hate Kyrie or the acquisition. Heck they like how he is playing (even saying that only he has been playing well) , and also because he nets them Durant. Deandre Jordan is another story though, as most of them do not want him given his performance, but only because of him and Kyrie that they got Durant.

[liam]

Still very early in the season, but while we're all piling on Kyrie and the Nets:


I recall Dinwiddie and the Nets being proud of their sly (or not so sly) recruitment of Kyrie.

Reminds me of Josh Jackson and the Suns thinking they pulled one over on Ainge.

Isn't Josh on the back of a milk carton now?

It's worse. The milk carton that he was on the back of is now on the back of a milk carton.

TP

[cman88]

well, this is deteriorating much quicker than I thought it would. Hes already alienating management/teammates, calling out the young guys and we are only 4 games into the season! took boston a year for him to start to show his colors.

I said this in the offseason...if Kyrie didnt like the "young celtics" how was he going to like the "young nets" who have a less talented youth core.

[Phantom255x]

4 games in, and the Nets are looking like last year's Celtics. I wonder why... 

[RJ87]

The Nets are not looking good...

Makes you wonder... were they actually better off with D'Lo?

The main prize was signing KD + getting DAJ. Also, as much as we dislike Kyrie, let's be real...

Kyrie is 2x better than D'Lo… The problem is that D'Angelo once had that infamous scandal where he destroyed his reputation as a teammate with Nick Young, and proved that he was way too immature to be any leader for the young Lakers. Now that he's led the Nets to the playoffs, proved he can at least somewhat be a mature professional, and actually put numbers up. It's clear that while Kyrie is the better player, he's just way too random and hard to compress down as a leader.

As I've said before...

KD + Kyrie both seem like two dudes who are divas, emotional, have weird locker room issues, and just seem to be unable to handle criticism well. I never understood the main reason that Kyrie was upset with the Celtics. I felt like Ainge did everything in his power to make him happy, and to confide with sincere accommodations.

I know it wasn’t the point of the post, but getting DeAndre Jordan at this point in his career wasn’t a big prize

It's pretty obvious that DAJ also played some role in convincing Durant to come with Kyrie. Plus for 4/40, DAJ at worst is a decent rebounding big that can sometimes block shots.

I also find it funny that while Kyrie was so adamant about teaming up with two players who reneged on their respective teams.

When did Durant renege on a team? I don't recall him ever saying he'd resign for sure in OKC or GSW.

[tenn_smoothie]

Does Kyrie get a video tribute at TD Garden?

Let's hope not. He left us, remember ? (thankfully)

[tenn_smoothie]

I'm not a health care professional so take this with a grain of salt, and this is not meant to be disparaging or judgmental. I wonder if KI has a legitimate mental health issue.

As much as I can't stand the guy and have believed him to be a self-centered jerk - the possibility you mention has crossed my mind this season after reading about these incidents ...... and now subsequent coverage of Irving's quotes after games where he meanders through some diatribe about "learning to love myself" with miscellaneous comments sprinkled in about strategic adjustments the team needs to make to win games. What the hell ?

Really makes you start to wonder.

[mr. dee]

The Nets are not looking good...

Makes you wonder... were they actually better off with D'Lo?

The main prize was signing KD + getting DAJ. Also, as much as we dislike Kyrie, let's be real...

Kyrie is 2x better than D'Lo… The problem is that D'Angelo once had that infamous scandal where he destroyed his reputation as a teammate with Nick Young, and proved that he was way too immature to be any leader for the young Lakers. Now that he's led the Nets to the playoffs, proved he can at least somewhat be a mature professional, and actually put numbers up. It's clear that while Kyrie is the better player, he's just way too random and hard to compress down as a leader.

As I've said before...

KD + Kyrie both seem like two dudes who are divas, emotional, have weird locker room issues, and just seem to be unable to handle criticism well. I never understood the main reason that Kyrie was upset with the Celtics. I felt like Ainge did everything in his power to make him happy, and to confide with sincere accommodations.

I know it wasn’t the point of the post, but getting DeAndre Jordan at this point in his career wasn’t a big prize

It's pretty obvious that DAJ also played some role in convincing Durant to come with Kyrie. Plus for 4/40, DAJ at worst is a decent rebounding big that can sometimes block shots.

I also find it funny that while Kyrie was so adamant about teaming up with two players who reneged on their respective teams.

When did Durant renege on a team? I don't recall him ever saying he'd resign for sure in OKC or GSW.

He didn't but he said something similar like this.

[gpap]

How does everyone really feel?

[keevsnick]

I'm confused as to how a basically Boston beat reporter has any real idea of how the Nets are run.  And I get that she talked with people and has quotes, but I don't think she really has any idea what the Nets are like on a day to day basis. 

And the Nets have all basically come out and said the article was nonsense.  That Irving isn't a problem at all, everyone likes him, there are no issues, etc.

Wow, you mean a team is denying there being problems on the team? Shocking.

Sure, but this wasn't a Nets beat reporter that is well connected with the team writing the article.  That was the main point I was making.  How does Jackie have any real idea what is going on in Brooklyn?  She isn't there everyday.  She doesn't cover them.  Etc. 

It came off like a hit piece from a disgruntled former lover.

Again, its Jackie Mac. She doesn't have some agenda man, she knows because she's very well connected. Its like asking how WOJ knows who every team is gonna draft/sign every year. He isnt a beat writer! How does he know? Its their job to know. Do you think she's making this up? I mean it pretty much tracks with everything everybody else has said about Kyrie at every stop he's been at. This behavior isnt a secret.

Woj is well connected to agents and does have contacts across the league.  But Woj isn't writing stories about team cultures.  He is reporting breaking news.  That is a vastly different type of reporting.  And of course Jackie could have an agenda.  Every single piece of opinion based journalism is written or spoken with an agenda or bias.  That is what makes it opinion based.  To act like Jackie doesn't have an agenda is just strange.  Jackie isn't in Brooklyn every day covering the team.  I absolutely maintain the article came off like a hit job.

She didn't just conjure something out of thin air, though.  She might write more along the lines of opinion pieces these days but the fact of the matter is that she's been covering the league for more than 3 decades now in one capacity or another.  You don't spend that much time in the league without developing contacts & sources.   Someone told her this.  Maybe there's an agenda and maybe there isn't but she got this from somewhere. And, of course, the Nets are going to deny this.  He's their shiny new toy and investment.  With KD due back next season, this organization has extremely high hopes.  They're not going to come out and confirm this.  That would be a needless self-inflicted wound.

What's odd is seemingly questioning the credibility of someone like Jackie Mac while running to the defense of a guy that has created well-documented organizational problems in the past.

This is what I find a bit perplexing too. I kind of thought that Jackie Mac was considered by most to be a great old school journalist (I'll admit I thought she has gotten a bit more hot takey when she is on a show like around the horn), however it seems to be a very different thing to suggest she did a hit piece. I am also further confused why she would do this? Irving, despite being weird, seems to have friends around the NBA including Lebron and Durant. I don't think she would her entire career and reputation to just make up stuff about irving. Why would she do that?

Let's not forgot about all the hit pieces Woj has done on LeBron.  Didn't ruin his career.

I don't speak for Moranis, but to me it felt like she was just regurgitating the same stuff she wrote about Kyrie in Boston.  I imagine she has a strong opinion of him already, writing several ESPN articles on Kyrie and speaking about him on podcasts over the years.  Took her Kyrie/Boston article and just updated the team and called it new.

Doesn't mean it's not credible, but also the same thing she's been saying about Kyrie for years.  To me it would have hold more weight if it came from a different, credible source.  Again not that Jackie Mac isn't credible, but she's already a source on him being difficult, this doesn't seem like new info to me.

Just to follow up on this, Zach Lowe commented on Jackie Mac's piece in the latest Lowe Post podcast. His quote
"Jackie is not wrong. None of those details in that story as far as I know are wrong. A lot of us have heard the same buzz."

So apparently this is a well known thing in the NBA writer community.

[celticsclay]

I'm confused as to how a basically Boston beat reporter has any real idea of how the Nets are run.  And I get that she talked with people and has quotes, but I don't think she really has any idea what the Nets are like on a day to day basis. 

And the Nets have all basically come out and said the article was nonsense.  That Irving isn't a problem at all, everyone likes him, there are no issues, etc.

Wow, you mean a team is denying there being problems on the team? Shocking.

Sure, but this wasn't a Nets beat reporter that is well connected with the team writing the article.  That was the main point I was making.  How does Jackie have any real idea what is going on in Brooklyn?  She isn't there everyday.  She doesn't cover them.  Etc. 

It came off like a hit piece from a disgruntled former lover.

Again, its Jackie Mac. She doesn't have some agenda man, she knows because she's very well connected. Its like asking how WOJ knows who every team is gonna draft/sign every year. He isnt a beat writer! How does he know? Its their job to know. Do you think she's making this up? I mean it pretty much tracks with everything everybody else has said about Kyrie at every stop he's been at. This behavior isnt a secret.

Woj is well connected to agents and does have contacts across the league.  But Woj isn't writing stories about team cultures.  He is reporting breaking news.  That is a vastly different type of reporting.  And of course Jackie could have an agenda.  Every single piece of opinion based journalism is written or spoken with an agenda or bias.  That is what makes it opinion based.  To act like Jackie doesn't have an agenda is just strange.  Jackie isn't in Brooklyn every day covering the team.  I absolutely maintain the article came off like a hit job.

She didn't just conjure something out of thin air, though.  She might write more along the lines of opinion pieces these days but the fact of the matter is that she's been covering the league for more than 3 decades now in one capacity or another.  You don't spend that much time in the league without developing contacts & sources.   Someone told her this.  Maybe there's an agenda and maybe there isn't but she got this from somewhere. And, of course, the Nets are going to deny this.  He's their shiny new toy and investment.  With KD due back next season, this organization has extremely high hopes.  They're not going to come out and confirm this.  That would be a needless self-inflicted wound.

What's odd is seemingly questioning the credibility of someone like Jackie Mac while running to the defense of a guy that has created well-documented organizational problems in the past.

This is what I find a bit perplexing too. I kind of thought that Jackie Mac was considered by most to be a great old school journalist (I'll admit I thought she has gotten a bit more hot takey when she is on a show like around the horn), however it seems to be a very different thing to suggest she did a hit piece. I am also further confused why she would do this? Irving, despite being weird, seems to have friends around the NBA including Lebron and Durant. I don't think she would her entire career and reputation to just make up stuff about irving. Why would she do that?

Let's not forgot about all the hit pieces Woj has done on LeBron.  Didn't ruin his career.

I don't speak for Moranis, but to me it felt like she was just regurgitating the same stuff she wrote about Kyrie in Boston.  I imagine she has a strong opinion of him already, writing several ESPN articles on Kyrie and speaking about him on podcasts over the years.  Took her Kyrie/Boston article and just updated the team and called it new.

Doesn't mean it's not credible, but also the same thing she's been saying about Kyrie for years.  To me it would have hold more weight if it came from a different, credible source.  Again not that Jackie Mac isn't credible, but she's already a source on him being difficult, this doesn't seem like new info to me.

Just to follow up on this, Zach Lowe commented on Jackie Mac's piece in the latest Lowe Post podcast. His quote
"Jackie is not wrong. None of those details in that story as far as I know are wrong. A lot of us have heard the same buzz."

So apparently this is a well known thing in the NBA writer community.

yea, and not sure if you saw my comment earlier on this either. The Ringer NBA guys also shared a story from China about a photographer being asked to not take photos of Kyrie in the pre game, the first time he had been asked that in a 20 year career. I think it was a bit lame to attack Jackie Macs credibility over this when it seems to be really common knowledge that other sources are verifying.

[Moranis]

I'm confused as to how a basically Boston beat reporter has any real idea of how the Nets are run.  And I get that she talked with people and has quotes, but I don't think she really has any idea what the Nets are like on a day to day basis. 

And the Nets have all basically come out and said the article was nonsense.  That Irving isn't a problem at all, everyone likes him, there are no issues, etc.

Wow, you mean a team is denying there being problems on the team? Shocking.

Sure, but this wasn't a Nets beat reporter that is well connected with the team writing the article.  That was the main point I was making.  How does Jackie have any real idea what is going on in Brooklyn?  She isn't there everyday.  She doesn't cover them.  Etc. 

It came off like a hit piece from a disgruntled former lover.

Again, its Jackie Mac. She doesn't have some agenda man, she knows because she's very well connected. Its like asking how WOJ knows who every team is gonna draft/sign every year. He isnt a beat writer! How does he know? Its their job to know. Do you think she's making this up? I mean it pretty much tracks with everything everybody else has said about Kyrie at every stop he's been at. This behavior isnt a secret.

Woj is well connected to agents and does have contacts across the league.  But Woj isn't writing stories about team cultures.  He is reporting breaking news.  That is a vastly different type of reporting.  And of course Jackie could have an agenda.  Every single piece of opinion based journalism is written or spoken with an agenda or bias.  That is what makes it opinion based.  To act like Jackie doesn't have an agenda is just strange.  Jackie isn't in Brooklyn every day covering the team.  I absolutely maintain the article came off like a hit job.

She didn't just conjure something out of thin air, though.  She might write more along the lines of opinion pieces these days but the fact of the matter is that she's been covering the league for more than 3 decades now in one capacity or another.  You don't spend that much time in the league without developing contacts & sources.   Someone told her this.  Maybe there's an agenda and maybe there isn't but she got this from somewhere. And, of course, the Nets are going to deny this.  He's their shiny new toy and investment.  With KD due back next season, this organization has extremely high hopes.  They're not going to come out and confirm this.  That would be a needless self-inflicted wound.

What's odd is seemingly questioning the credibility of someone like Jackie Mac while running to the defense of a guy that has created well-documented organizational problems in the past.

This is what I find a bit perplexing too. I kind of thought that Jackie Mac was considered by most to be a great old school journalist (I'll admit I thought she has gotten a bit more hot takey when she is on a show like around the horn), however it seems to be a very different thing to suggest she did a hit piece. I am also further confused why she would do this? Irving, despite being weird, seems to have friends around the NBA including Lebron and Durant. I don't think she would her entire career and reputation to just make up stuff about irving. Why would she do that?

Let's not forgot about all the hit pieces Woj has done on LeBron.  Didn't ruin his career.

I don't speak for Moranis, but to me it felt like she was just regurgitating the same stuff she wrote about Kyrie in Boston.  I imagine she has a strong opinion of him already, writing several ESPN articles on Kyrie and speaking about him on podcasts over the years.  Took her Kyrie/Boston article and just updated the team and called it new.

Doesn't mean it's not credible, but also the same thing she's been saying about Kyrie for years.  To me it would have hold more weight if it came from a different, credible source.  Again not that Jackie Mac isn't credible, but she's already a source on him being difficult, this doesn't seem like new info to me.

This is kind of where I'm going.  All of the really "harmful" stuff about Kyrie in the article isn't quoted and sounds like articles she was writing last year when Irving was in Boston.  I read the article more like Jackie had a way she wanted to go and then just fit quotes in in a manner to fit the narrative she wanted to present.  if this article was from a Nets beat writer I'd hold it in much higher regard than I do one coming from a Boston beat writer that has printed very similar articles for years.  It just came off like a hit job from someone that has very little day to day interaction of the team being written about.

[celticsclay]

I'm confused as to how a basically Boston beat reporter has any real idea of how the Nets are run.  And I get that she talked with people and has quotes, but I don't think she really has any idea what the Nets are like on a day to day basis. 

And the Nets have all basically come out and said the article was nonsense.  That Irving isn't a problem at all, everyone likes him, there are no issues, etc.

Wow, you mean a team is denying there being problems on the team? Shocking.

Sure, but this wasn't a Nets beat reporter that is well connected with the team writing the article.  That was the main point I was making.  How does Jackie have any real idea what is going on in Brooklyn?  She isn't there everyday.  She doesn't cover them.  Etc. 

It came off like a hit piece from a disgruntled former lover.

Again, its Jackie Mac. She doesn't have some agenda man, she knows because she's very well connected. Its like asking how WOJ knows who every team is gonna draft/sign every year. He isnt a beat writer! How does he know? Its their job to know. Do you think she's making this up? I mean it pretty much tracks with everything everybody else has said about Kyrie at every stop he's been at. This behavior isnt a secret.

Woj is well connected to agents and does have contacts across the league.  But Woj isn't writing stories about team cultures.  He is reporting breaking news.  That is a vastly different type of reporting.  And of course Jackie could have an agenda.  Every single piece of opinion based journalism is written or spoken with an agenda or bias.  That is what makes it opinion based.  To act like Jackie doesn't have an agenda is just strange.  Jackie isn't in Brooklyn every day covering the team.  I absolutely maintain the article came off like a hit job.

She didn't just conjure something out of thin air, though.  She might write more along the lines of opinion pieces these days but the fact of the matter is that she's been covering the league for more than 3 decades now in one capacity or another.  You don't spend that much time in the league without developing contacts & sources.   Someone told her this.  Maybe there's an agenda and maybe there isn't but she got this from somewhere. And, of course, the Nets are going to deny this.  He's their shiny new toy and investment.  With KD due back next season, this organization has extremely high hopes.  They're not going to come out and confirm this.  That would be a needless self-inflicted wound.

What's odd is seemingly questioning the credibility of someone like Jackie Mac while running to the defense of a guy that has created well-documented organizational problems in the past.

This is what I find a bit perplexing too. I kind of thought that Jackie Mac was considered by most to be a great old school journalist (I'll admit I thought she has gotten a bit more hot takey when she is on a show like around the horn), however it seems to be a very different thing to suggest she did a hit piece. I am also further confused why she would do this? Irving, despite being weird, seems to have friends around the NBA including Lebron and Durant. I don't think she would her entire career and reputation to just make up stuff about irving. Why would she do that?

Let's not forgot about all the hit pieces Woj has done on LeBron.  Didn't ruin his career.

I don't speak for Moranis, but to me it felt like she was just regurgitating the same stuff she wrote about Kyrie in Boston.  I imagine she has a strong opinion of him already, writing several ESPN articles on Kyrie and speaking about him on podcasts over the years.  Took her Kyrie/Boston article and just updated the team and called it new.

Doesn't mean it's not credible, but also the same thing she's been saying about Kyrie for years.  To me it would have hold more weight if it came from a different, credible source.  Again not that Jackie Mac isn't credible, but she's already a source on him being difficult, this doesn't seem like new info to me.

This is kind of where I'm going.  All of the really "harmful" stuff about Kyrie in the article isn't quoted and sounds like articles she was writing last year when Irving was in Boston.  I read the article more like Jackie had a way she wanted to go and then just fit quotes in in a manner to fit the narrative she wanted to present.  if this article was from a Nets beat writer I'd hold it in much higher regard than I do one coming from a Boston beat writer that has printed very similar articles for years.  It just came off like a hit job from someone that has very little day to day interaction of the team being written about.

Curious why you think Zack Lowe and the Ringer NBA guys would go along with a hit piece? Why would (at least 3) highly respected NBA all randomly go in on this hit piece? Really curious what possible reason there could be for that.