Busy offseason or quiet

[Monkhouse]

If Hayward shows some ability to stay healthy, and do well in the playoffs, the Nuggets could be a suitable candidate.

Barton, and maybe someone else to match salaries as a 3rd team.

But I just cannot see Hayward being used as an 'asset,' for NOP when they are clearly on the edge of re-building.

[PhoSita]

If Hayward shows some ability to stay healthy, and do well in the playoffs, the Nuggets could be a suitable candidate.

Barton, and maybe someone else to match salaries as a 3rd team.

But I just cannot see Hayward being used as an 'asset,' for NOP when they are clearly on the edge of re-building.

Depends on whether New Orleans wants to try to maintain a decent borderline playoff team by retaining Holiday, Randle, etc and adding pieces around that instead of bottoming out.

[celticsclay]

If Hayward shows some ability to stay healthy, and do well in the playoffs, the Nuggets could be a suitable candidate.

Barton, and maybe someone else to match salaries as a 3rd team.

But I just cannot see Hayward being used as an 'asset,' for NOP when they are clearly on the edge of re-building.

Depends on whether New Orleans wants to try to maintain a decent borderline playoff team by retaining Holiday, Randle, etc and adding pieces around that instead of bottoming out.

I think interesting question is whether that team can afford to do a bottom out. I think they are already struggling in attendance when they had Davis, now there is the question of whether that team would get relocated...

[Silky]

Kawhi goes to the Clippers.

Durant stays but Green ends up in LAL

Kemba goes to NYK
Williamson goes to NYK

Davis, Moore, Wood end up in Boston for Hayward, Tatum, Memphis pick, Sacramento pick, LAC Pick, Boston pick 2020.

Irving stays put

McCollum gets traded to Orlando for Gordon

Klay stays in GS
Cousins stays in GS

Why would Portland trade McCollum for Gordon?

I'd also really dislike trading Hayward as part of a Davis deal. Hayward is probably our best or second best play-maker and can score from all levels, so his offensive package is fairly unique for this team (outside of Kyrie). I'd rather try and sign and trade Rozier, or do some other sneaky cap maneuvering.

Also can't see DMC sticking in GS. Could see him going to Atlanta, especially if the Dallas pick conveys. Collins, Young, Huerter, Prince & two high lotto picks + Cousins is a fun team for Atlanta fans

I think the better question is why would Orlando trade Aaron Gordon for CJ McCollum?  Aaron Gordon has turned in a very good NBA player and one that not many seem to talk about. It's hard to find very athletic power forwards like Gordon who can stretch the floor, knock down shoots and be productive in the paint. There's a reason he was drafted 4th in the 2014 NBA draft (just two spots ahead of Marcus.)

Plus, Orlando already has a shooting guard in Fournier.

I think the best question is why, when New Orleans has said they want excellent young prospects, draft picks and salary relief, would New Orleans take Hayward in a trade with over $60 million still owed him. The Pels front office isn't taking on Hayward's contract.

U honestly think pelicans will get everything they ask for?

No. They wont

kawhi nevee close to what some think davis will. And leonard is by far the superior player

Dude, they might not get everything they want, so they may not get cap relief, but they certainly aren't going to make their cap situation worse!!!

Boston could give them Tatum, Smart, Yabusele and 2 1st rounders so New Orleans gets the young talent and picks(not 4 picks) and not cap relief. So they aren't getting everything they want.

But, in the deal I suggest, the Celtics aren't expecting the Pels to pick up two years and $60 million on a contract that could be an albatross if Hayward never gets back to being Utah Hayward.

Before I dive into your post. Why when talking about hayward being on Boston is his contract not bad...but whrn being terrible it becomes an albatross?



The deal would also include Moore which cuts 10+mill off Haywards salary in year 1 then he becomes a nice expiring the after the first season.

So NOP gets a great vet who doesnt complain who is a very good compliment to tatum and holiday and will help them actually win enough games to keep seats filled.

NOP has ridiculous capspace(assuming they resign randle at 20 mill per season) yet I see no free agents lining up to play there. Conserving their capspace for when all their youngguys have a couple years under their belt is a very good decision to make financially.

[Silky]

If Hayward shows some ability to stay healthy, and do well in the playoffs, the Nuggets could be a suitable candidate.

Barton, and maybe someone else to match salaries as a 3rd team.

But I just cannot see Hayward being used as an 'asset,' for NOP when they are clearly on the edge of re-building.

Depends on whether New Orleans wants to try to maintain a decent borderline playoff team by retaining Holiday, Randle, etc and adding pieces around that instead of bottoming out.

I think interesting question is whether that team can afford to do a bottom out. I think they are already struggling in attendance when they had Davis, now there is the question of whether that team would get relocated...

They need to win some or lose the team imo.

Holiday
Hayward
Tatum
Mirotic
Randle

Will keep them fighting for playoffs in the west and they would have a load of picks for the depth and hopefully a breakout star player.

[gpap]

If Hayward shows some ability to stay healthy, and do well in the playoffs, the Nuggets could be a suitable candidate.

Barton, and maybe someone else to match salaries as a 3rd team.

But I just cannot see Hayward being used as an 'asset,' for NOP when they are clearly on the edge of re-building.

Depends on whether New Orleans wants to try to maintain a decent borderline playoff team by retaining Holiday, Randle, etc and adding pieces around that instead of bottoming out.

I think interesting question is whether that team can afford to do a bottom out. I think they are already struggling in attendance when they had Davis, now there is the question of whether that team would get relocated...

They need to win some or lose the team imo.

Holiday
Hayward
Tatum
Mirotic
Randle

Will keep them fighting for playoffs in the west and they would have a load of picks for the depth and hopefully a breakout star player.

Mirotic was traded to the Bucks.

[gpap]

Kawhi goes to the Clippers.

Durant stays but Green ends up in LAL

Kemba goes to NYK
Williamson goes to NYK

Davis, Moore, Wood end up in Boston for Hayward, Tatum, Memphis pick, Sacramento pick, LAC Pick, Boston pick 2020.

Irving stays put

McCollum gets traded to Orlando for Gordon

Klay stays in GS
Cousins stays in GS

Why would Portland trade McCollum for Gordon?

I'd also really dislike trading Hayward as part of a Davis deal. Hayward is probably our best or second best play-maker and can score from all levels, so his offensive package is fairly unique for this team (outside of Kyrie). I'd rather try and sign and trade Rozier, or do some other sneaky cap maneuvering.

Also can't see DMC sticking in GS. Could see him going to Atlanta, especially if the Dallas pick conveys. Collins, Young, Huerter, Prince & two high lotto picks + Cousins is a fun team for Atlanta fans

I think the better question is why would Orlando trade Aaron Gordon for CJ McCollum?  Aaron Gordon has turned in a very good NBA player and one that not many seem to talk about. It's hard to find very athletic power forwards like Gordon who can stretch the floor, knock down shoots and be productive in the paint. There's a reason he was drafted 4th in the 2014 NBA draft (just two spots ahead of Marcus.)

Plus, Orlando already has a shooting guard in Fournier.

I think the best question is why, when New Orleans has said they want excellent young prospects, draft picks and salary relief, would New Orleans take Hayward in a trade with over $60 million still owed him. The Pels front office isn't taking on Hayward's contract.

Who are you addressing this question to? Because I didn't say a thing about the Pelicans and Hayward.

[nickagneta]

Kawhi goes to the Clippers.

Durant stays but Green ends up in LAL

Kemba goes to NYK
Williamson goes to NYK

Davis, Moore, Wood end up in Boston for Hayward, Tatum, Memphis pick, Sacramento pick, LAC Pick, Boston pick 2020.

Irving stays put

McCollum gets traded to Orlando for Gordon

Klay stays in GS
Cousins stays in GS

Why would Portland trade McCollum for Gordon?

I'd also really dislike trading Hayward as part of a Davis deal. Hayward is probably our best or second best play-maker and can score from all levels, so his offensive package is fairly unique for this team (outside of Kyrie). I'd rather try and sign and trade Rozier, or do some other sneaky cap maneuvering.

Also can't see DMC sticking in GS. Could see him going to Atlanta, especially if the Dallas pick conveys. Collins, Young, Huerter, Prince & two high lotto picks + Cousins is a fun team for Atlanta fans

I think the better question is why would Orlando trade Aaron Gordon for CJ McCollum?  Aaron Gordon has turned in a very good NBA player and one that not many seem to talk about. It's hard to find very athletic power forwards like Gordon who can stretch the floor, knock down shoots and be productive in the paint. There's a reason he was drafted 4th in the 2014 NBA draft (just two spots ahead of Marcus.)

Plus, Orlando already has a shooting guard in Fournier.

I think the best question is why, when New Orleans has said they want excellent young prospects, draft picks and salary relief, would New Orleans take Hayward in a trade with over $60 million still owed him. The Pels front office isn't taking on Hayward's contract.

Who are you addressing this question to? Because I didn't say a thing about the Pelicans and Hayward.

I was just piggybacking on your "A better question...." theme in questioning Silky's post by starting mine "I think the best question....". Silky answered my question.

[jambr380]

The more I think about it, the more I realize there is no way Hayward is getting traded this offseason. It isn't so much about the fact that nobody would want him (although that has its own hurdles), but more about shipping him off just before we put together [quite possibly] the best team in the NBA, when that is why he signed here in the first place.

I get it, if Kyrie Walks, Horford opts out and signs elsewhere and we go with a semi-youth movement, then he could be traded (and the optics wouldn't be so bad), but any deal that brings in AD will have Hayward as the starting SF...and a healthy Hayward [obviously] is a real asset.

[nickagneta]

Kawhi goes to the Clippers.

Durant stays but Green ends up in LAL

Kemba goes to NYK
Williamson goes to NYK

Davis, Moore, Wood end up in Boston for Hayward, Tatum, Memphis pick, Sacramento pick, LAC Pick, Boston pick 2020.

Irving stays put

McCollum gets traded to Orlando for Gordon

Klay stays in GS
Cousins stays in GS

Why would Portland trade McCollum for Gordon?

I'd also really dislike trading Hayward as part of a Davis deal. Hayward is probably our best or second best play-maker and can score from all levels, so his offensive package is fairly unique for this team (outside of Kyrie). I'd rather try and sign and trade Rozier, or do some other sneaky cap maneuvering.

Also can't see DMC sticking in GS. Could see him going to Atlanta, especially if the Dallas pick conveys. Collins, Young, Huerter, Prince & two high lotto picks + Cousins is a fun team for Atlanta fans

I think the better question is why would Orlando trade Aaron Gordon for CJ McCollum?  Aaron Gordon has turned in a very good NBA player and one that not many seem to talk about. It's hard to find very athletic power forwards like Gordon who can stretch the floor, knock down shoots and be productive in the paint. There's a reason he was drafted 4th in the 2014 NBA draft (just two spots ahead of Marcus.)

Plus, Orlando already has a shooting guard in Fournier.

I think the best question is why, when New Orleans has said they want excellent young prospects, draft picks and salary relief, would New Orleans take Hayward in a trade with over $60 million still owed him. The Pels front office isn't taking on Hayward's contract.

U honestly think pelicans will get everything they ask for?

No. They wont

kawhi nevee close to what some think davis will. And leonard is by far the superior player

Dude, they might not get everything they want, so they may not get cap relief, but they certainly aren't going to make their cap situation worse!!!

Boston could give them Tatum, Smart, Yabusele and 2 1st rounders so New Orleans gets the young talent and picks(not 4 picks) and not cap relief. So they aren't getting everything they want.

But, in the deal I suggest, the Celtics aren't expecting the Pels to pick up two years and $60 million on a contract that could be an albatross if Hayward never gets back to being Utah Hayward.

Before I dive into your post. Why when talking about hayward being on Boston is his contract not bad...but whrn being terrible it becomes an albatross?



The deal would also include Moore which cuts 10+mill off Haywards salary in year 1 then he becomes a nice expiring the after the first season.

So NOP gets a great vet who doesnt complain who is a very good compliment to tatum and holiday and will help them actually win enough games to keep seats filled.

NOP has ridiculous capspace(assuming they resign randle at 20 mill per season) yet I see no free agents lining up to play there. Conserving their capspace for when all their youngguys have a couple years under their belt is a very good decision to make financially.

The Pelicans do not have ridiculous cap space. Right now, if Randle opts in and the team picks up Okafor's $1.7 million option, the team has $92 million in salary. $3.1 million in exceptions, a $3-4 million 1st round pick cap hold, and cap holds for all their free agents totaling $23 million.

That puts them way over the cap. If Randle opts out, his cap hold is higher than the $9 million salary I have allotted here so whether you calculate his cap hold or the $20 million you think he will sign for, his figure still goes only up.

They team could renounce their exception and every single free agent, not Randle, but still would have two more empty roster slot cap holds totaling around $1.8 million.

So best case scenario is Randle opts into a ridiculous $9 million option(won't happen), the Pels pick is #10, and the Pelicans renounce every other free agent(most likely won't happen). In that scenario the Pels would have a whopping....$11-12 million in cap space.

And Moore being included does not lower any cost. New Orleans would be trading $35.5 million to Boston. Boston would be trading $40.5 million to New Orleans. New Orleans actually takes on MORE salary for the year and $34 million MORE long term salary. Boston takes on none.

You can justify this trade from the perspective of a Celtics fan all you want but clearly, you aren't informed as to what the Pelicans cap situation is and uninformed regarding how much salary is going in both directions. You are also not looking at things from the perspective as to what is best for New Orleans, as adding a near 30 year old player who may never be the player he was when he signed his $30+ million a year contract and having to pay him $67 million over two years is not good for that team.

No, New Orleans won't get exactly what they want or everything they want, but they aren't going to take on stuff that really hurts them. If Ainge tries to make them take on Hayward, Davis will end up elsewhere.

[Walker Wiggle]

Some miscellaneous thoughts:

1) I also find it difficult to imagine the team trading Hayward this offseason, just like the Red Sox couldn't fire John Farrell after he was diagnosed with cancer (they ended up waiting). On the heels of the cold-blooded trade of IT, the Celtics would be walking on dangerous ground in terms of their reputation around the league. Then again, I probably would have written the same thing about trading IT for Irving before it happened.

2) Durant is definitely in play and you'd be a fool to think Ainge isn't looking at this strongly. If Hayward is in fact traded, I think GSW might be the destination, in exchange for (along with some other stuff) an signed-and-traded Durant.

3) I think there's a greater than 50% chance the Celtics trade for AD and sign Kyrie. I believe Kyrie will be heavily involved in the trade discussions, given how his free agency and the trade are intertwined. I also suspect that the haul won't be as big as some believe (for instance, both Brown and Tatum), but the Celtics' package will still be more attractive than whatever else is offered, especially given Ingram's medical condition for LAL, and the incredible marketability of Zion which will make it extremely difficult for whatever team lands him to deal him away.

4) If AD lands here, it won't be with a commitment to re-sign. It will be Kyrie 2018-19 redux, perhaps with less drama and better handling of the media. It's possible that Kyrie signs a 1+1, thereby making the two of them both free agents at the same time a year later. That would be a major headache for all of us, but in that situation I'd be confident that both of them stay and I think Ainge would be too. This lack of commitment pre-trade from AD, by the way, is one of the reasons I think the Celtics won't end up giving up the farm for him.

5) I really hope the Celtics find a way to retain Smart (and Hayward), though I realize it's tricky to say the least. Perhaps some combination of signed-and-traded Rozier and Morris will help, but I have not done the numbers the way some others have in this forum.

[PhoSita]

4) If AD lands here, it won't be with a commitment to re-sign. It will be Kyrie 2018-19 redux, perhaps with less drama and better handling of the media. It's possible that Kyrie signs a 1+1, thereby making the two of them both free agents at the same time a year later. That would be a major headache for all of us, but in that situation I'd be confident that both of them stay and I think Ainge would be too. This lack of commitment pre-trade from AD, by the way, is one of the reasons I think the Celtics won't end up giving up the farm for him.

This is 100% my worst case scenario for the summer.

[Silky]

Kawhi goes to the Clippers.

Durant stays but Green ends up in LAL

Kemba goes to NYK
Williamson goes to NYK

Davis, Moore, Wood end up in Boston for Hayward, Tatum, Memphis pick, Sacramento pick, LAC Pick, Boston pick 2020.

Irving stays put

McCollum gets traded to Orlando for Gordon

Klay stays in GS
Cousins stays in GS

Why would Portland trade McCollum for Gordon?

I'd also really dislike trading Hayward as part of a Davis deal. Hayward is probably our best or second best play-maker and can score from all levels, so his offensive package is fairly unique for this team (outside of Kyrie). I'd rather try and sign and trade Rozier, or do some other sneaky cap maneuvering.

Also can't see DMC sticking in GS. Could see him going to Atlanta, especially if the Dallas pick conveys. Collins, Young, Huerter, Prince & two high lotto picks + Cousins is a fun team for Atlanta fans

I think the better question is why would Orlando trade Aaron Gordon for CJ McCollum?  Aaron Gordon has turned in a very good NBA player and one that not many seem to talk about. It's hard to find very athletic power forwards like Gordon who can stretch the floor, knock down shoots and be productive in the paint. There's a reason he was drafted 4th in the 2014 NBA draft (just two spots ahead of Marcus.)

Plus, Orlando already has a shooting guard in Fournier.

I think the best question is why, when New Orleans has said they want excellent young prospects, draft picks and salary relief, would New Orleans take Hayward in a trade with over $60 million still owed him. The Pels front office isn't taking on Hayward's contract.

U honestly think pelicans will get everything they ask for?

No. They wont

kawhi nevee close to what some think davis will. And leonard is by far the superior player

Dude, they might not get everything they want, so they may not get cap relief, but they certainly aren't going to make their cap situation worse!!!

Boston could give them Tatum, Smart, Yabusele and 2 1st rounders so New Orleans gets the young talent and picks(not 4 picks) and not cap relief. So they aren't getting everything they want.

But, in the deal I suggest, the Celtics aren't expecting the Pels to pick up two years and $60 million on a contract that could be an albatross if Hayward never gets back to being Utah Hayward.

Before I dive into your post. Why when talking about hayward being on Boston is his contract not bad...but whrn being terrible it becomes an albatross?



The deal would also include Moore which cuts 10+mill off Haywards salary in year 1 then he becomes a nice expiring the after the first season.

So NOP gets a great vet who doesnt complain who is a very good compliment to tatum and holiday and will help them actually win enough games to keep seats filled.

NOP has ridiculous capspace(assuming they resign randle at 20 mill per season) yet I see no free agents lining up to play there. Conserving their capspace for when all their youngguys have a couple years under their belt is a very good decision to make financially.

The Pelicans do not have ridiculous cap space. Right now, if Randle opts in and the team picks up Okafor's $1.7 million option, the team has $92 million in salary. $3.1 million in exceptions, a $3-4 million 1st round pick cap hold, and cap holds for all their free agents totaling $23 million.

That puts them way over the cap. If Randle opts out, his cap hold is higher than the $9 million salary I have allotted here so whether you calculate his cap hold or the $20 million you think he will sign for, his figure still goes only up.

They team could renounce their exception and every single free agent, not Randle, but still would have two more empty roster slot cap holds totaling around $1.8 million.

So best case scenario is Randle opts into a ridiculous $9 million option(won't happen), the Pels pick is #10, and the Pelicans renounce every other free agent(most likely won't happen). In that scenario the Pels would have a whopping....$11-12 million in cap space.

And Moore being included does not lower any cost. New Orleans would be trading $35.5 million to Boston. Boston would be trading $40.5 million to New Orleans. New Orleans actually takes on MORE salary for the year and $34 million MORE long term salary. Boston takes on none.

You can justify this trade from the perspective of a Celtics fan all you want but clearly, you aren't informed as to what the Pelicans cap situation is and uninformed regarding how much salary is going in both directions. You are also not looking at things from the perspective as to what is best for New Orleans, as adding a near 30 year old player who may never be the player he was when he signed his $30+ million a year contract and having to pay him $67 million over two years is not good for that team.

No, New Orleans won't get exactly what they want or everything they want, but they aren't going to take on stuff that really hurts them. If Ainge tries to make them take on Hayward, Davis will end up elsewhere.

I gues I should have looked up the capspace and clarified myself a little bit.

But regardless, taking on Hayward is not an out of the question thing, nothing you stated changes that.

hey could include Hill (who I thought was expiring, guess not, and now they are sending out 47 million and taking in a bit less.

Hayward helps keep the team from moving to Seattle

I cannot see a scenario in which Ainge wants to trade Smart, that seems like an almost non starter. Perhaps he can find another way to get the salary to match up, or if the memphis pick parlays and Davis does not use his trade kicker, but I firmly believe that Ainge wants Brown and Smart as the sg/sf.

[Silky]

The more I think about it, the more I realize there is no way Hayward is getting traded this offseason. It isn't so much about the fact that nobody would want him (although that has its own hurdles), but more about shipping him off just before we put together [quite possibly] the best team in the NBA, when that is why he signed here in the first place.

I get it, if Kyrie Walks, Horford opts out and signs elsewhere and we go with a semi-youth movement, then he could be traded (and the optics wouldn't be so bad), but any deal that brings in AD will have Hayward as the starting SF...and a healthy Hayward [obviously] is a real asset.

I think that Hayward, who is most effective handling the ball, is a bad fit in an offense that would have Kyrie and Horford running the offense and then Davis with 30% usage

[Phantom255x]

Relatively quiet.

Bring back Kyrie, let Rozier and Morris walk, sign or draft some backup PG, sign an MLE PF or C (my preference is someone like Robin Lopez or similar), make 1 more draft selection, trade the other one for additional future picks, and then hope in the offseason Hayward gets to 100% (so that he can start more frequently and get back closer to his old self again) and roll with the team next season.

PG: Kyrie/?/Wanamaker
SG: Brown/Smart/?
SF: Tatum/Ojeyele/?
PF: Hayward/Theis/?/Yabusele
C: Horford/Baynes/MLE/Timelord

The ?'s are all filled out with draft acquisitions or other depth signings in the summer, so the roster will definitely look a lot better and more complete once those things are done (it's just hard to predict who those players are and will be exactly right now).

Does Kyrie stay if we dont get AD?  maybe if we do well in the playoffs.

I think as long as we aren't first round exits, he would stay. I personally think that while AD-Kyrie are great friends, their connection isn't as strong where they'd be willing to do anything at all to team up somewhere next season. With that said, Kyrie-Durant I feel have a much stronger connection and we obviously hear the rumors (especially with the Knicks), so that's worth watching.

But recent reports suggest even if Kyrie left, he'd prefer the Nets over the Knicks, or maybe even the Clippers. Same with KD. Not the Nets, but Clippers could really be his next destination where he can battle it out w/Lebron's Lakers in a fight for #1 player in NBA and the two LA teams.

My personal prediction is... Kyrie stays, KD goes to the Clippers, Kawhi stays, and AD gets traded to either Portland/New York. Lakers land no one in FA but trade for Beal (using 2 of Lonzo/Ingram/Kuzma + Picks)

Dude why/how Portland?

Well it would also depend on how they do in the playoffs. If they suffer another disappointing, early exit, then I think they would make McCollum, picks and 1-2 young players available in a trade, which the Pelicans could take unless they're blown away by another offer. Who knows, maybe the Pelicans decide they want to semi-contend and add pieces around Holiday and others. McCollum would be a good add. Also, with Nurkic likely gone for a long time, they could use someone like AD for sure. I see Portland as a dark horse team that could acquire him.

But they don't have good picks and McCollum is good but not an all star and wasn't even the 2nd best player on his team this year.  I don't see how he's even close to more compelling than Tatum + Smart.

I see you mentioning you don't think we get AD, but I'm pretty sure DA is gonna go for it, and I'm pretty sure Portland can't beat what we'll offer.

I don't see Ainge making a serious offer. Sure, he'll make an offer, but probably not a serious one considering his rental status.