Woj: Sixers plan on moving one of Noel or Okafor "eventually"

[LooseCannon]

Too early to write Okafor off, I mean the guy missed months of basketball and is a 2nd year big men.  Big guys always take awhile to develop, especially when coming back from injury and on a terrible team.  He still shows those flashes, like he did tonight against the Cavs.  7 of 11 for 14 points and 9 rebounds in 23 minutes.

I don't think it is too early to project that his defense will never be good as prime Al Jefferson.  How good does his offense have to be to justify a future max contract if his defense is that bad?

[LarBrd33]

Too early to write Okafor off, I mean the guy missed months of basketball and is a 2nd year big men.  Big guys always take awhile to develop, especially when coming back from injury and on a terrible team.  He still shows those flashes, like he did tonight against the Cavs.  7 of 11 for 14 points and 9 rebounds in 23 minutes.

I don't think it is too early to project that his defense will never be good as prime Al Jefferson.  How good does his offense have to be to justify a future max contract if his defense is that bad?

still have to laugh at the bizarre curve okafor is graded on.  All our young players continue to get a pass despite significant flaws at age 22/23.   And yet okafor still hasn't turned 21 years old and this is probably as good as he will ever be.  Yeah... ok....

I watched al Jefferson when he was 22.  He wasn't a good defender.  He wasn't a very good defender in his prime either.  Okafor is comparable.  Okafor can get much better though.

Bottom line is that Marcus smart is in the midst of his 3rd season proving he will never been a mediocre shooter in this league and yet myself and many other Celtic fans still think there's a chance he will figure it out.  Meanwhile okafor is like 60 games into NBA career and can't even legally drink and yet people think the kid is incapable of ever finding a role on defense.   

[celticsclay]

https://twitter.com/stevekylerNBA/status/801423004446105600

Unsurprisingly, the Sixers have no interest in moving Okafor anymore and are focused solely on trading Noel. This isn't really surprising given that Okafor still has several more cheap rookie contract years compared to Noel, who is getting paid this summer.

So it's pretty much a foregone conclusion that Noel is traded by the deadline, right? It's surprising that not much has been discussed with him on the trade front recently, though I assume that a robust market with several interested teams emerges once he shows that he's healthy again with some playing time.

Of course, finding him enough playing time for that to happen will be a challenge, as Brown openly admits. Danny needs to jump on this ASAP.

I will say that Kyler has always reacted really negatively toward anyone who suggests that Jah might be moved. I'm not suggesting that he's unreliable, but it is always important to consider why information is out there. I doubt Kyler has anyone reason to engage in shenanigans, but maybe his source has some motive to get that info out there. I think a safe rule is to take any report with a grain of salt unless it comes from Woj.

Well, I mean it's not like this is something that's pretty controversial. It would seem logical that they would want to keep Okafor over Noel. Not only does Okafor have several more cheap years, there's also noted tension between Noel and the organization at this point due to the logjam.

True, true. I still tend to think that there's no place for Okafor there long-term.

He's the 4th best Center on the roster. He's been the Sixers worst player this year.

what makes him the worst? I know you watch more philly than anyone on the board.

He stops and palms the ball for 3+ seconds every time he touches it, he is awful at getting position in the low post, he sets terrible screens, he's just generally inefficient and that's his good side of the ball.

He's unreal in terms of the points he hemorrhages on defense. Sags a mile back on PnR, makes glacial rotations, can't jump, has no idea how to front a post player, and is the worst rebounding center in the NBA.

He's my least favorite Sixer since Andrew Bynum.

I'm mentioned this previously but crazy to hear this from someone that watches him a lot and is a 76ers fan.

[tazzmaniac]

https://twitter.com/stevekylerNBA/status/801423004446105600

Unsurprisingly, the Sixers have no interest in moving Okafor anymore and are focused solely on trading Noel. This isn't really surprising given that Okafor still has several more cheap rookie contract years compared to Noel, who is getting paid this summer.

So it's pretty much a foregone conclusion that Noel is traded by the deadline, right? It's surprising that not much has been discussed with him on the trade front recently, though I assume that a robust market with several interested teams emerges once he shows that he's healthy again with some playing time.

Of course, finding him enough playing time for that to happen will be a challenge, as Brown openly admits. Danny needs to jump on this ASAP.

I will say that Kyler has always reacted really negatively toward anyone who suggests that Jah might be moved. I'm not suggesting that he's unreliable, but it is always important to consider why information is out there. I doubt Kyler has anyone reason to engage in shenanigans, but maybe his source has some motive to get that info out there. I think a safe rule is to take any report with a grain of salt unless it comes from Woj.

Well, I mean it's not like this is something that's pretty controversial. It would seem logical that they would want to keep Okafor over Noel. Not only does Okafor have several more cheap years, there's also noted tension between Noel and the organization at this point due to the logjam.

True, true. I still tend to think that there's no place for Okafor there long-term.

He's the 4th best Center on the roster. He's been the Sixers worst player this year.

what makes him the worst? I know you watch more philly than anyone on the board.

He stops and palms the ball for 3+ seconds every time he touches it, he is awful at getting position in the low post, he sets terrible screens, he's just generally inefficient and that's his good side of the ball.

He's unreal in terms of the points he hemorrhages on defense. Sags a mile back on PnR, makes glacial rotations, can't jump, has no idea how to front a post player, and is the worst rebounding center in the NBA.

He's my least favorite Sixer since Andrew Bynum.

I'm mentioned this previously but crazy to hear this from someone that watches him a lot and is a 76ers fan.

I think you can put RAAAAAAAANDY solidly in the NOKAFOR camp.  Okafor certainly has significant issues but he gets disproportionately dumped on.  The Sixers guards stink defensively and are lousy feeding the post whether it is Embiid or Okafor posting up.  Getting constantly compared to Embiid doesn't help Okafor and neither does Porzingas looking so good so soon.   

[Celtics18]

https://twitter.com/stevekylerNBA/status/801423004446105600

Unsurprisingly, the Sixers have no interest in moving Okafor anymore and are focused solely on trading Noel. This isn't really surprising given that Okafor still has several more cheap rookie contract years compared to Noel, who is getting paid this summer.

So it's pretty much a foregone conclusion that Noel is traded by the deadline, right? It's surprising that not much has been discussed with him on the trade front recently, though I assume that a robust market with several interested teams emerges once he shows that he's healthy again with some playing time.

Of course, finding him enough playing time for that to happen will be a challenge, as Brown openly admits. Danny needs to jump on this ASAP.

I will say that Kyler has always reacted really negatively toward anyone who suggests that Jah might be moved. I'm not suggesting that he's unreliable, but it is always important to consider why information is out there. I doubt Kyler has anyone reason to engage in shenanigans, but maybe his source has some motive to get that info out there. I think a safe rule is to take any report with a grain of salt unless it comes from Woj.

Well, I mean it's not like this is something that's pretty controversial. It would seem logical that they would want to keep Okafor over Noel. Not only does Okafor have several more cheap years, there's also noted tension between Noel and the organization at this point due to the logjam.

True, true. I still tend to think that there's no place for Okafor there long-term.

He's the 4th best Center on the roster. He's been the Sixers worst player this year.

what makes him the worst? I know you watch more philly than anyone on the board.

He stops and palms the ball for 3+ seconds every time he touches it, he is awful at getting position in the low post, he sets terrible screens, he's just generally inefficient and that's his good side of the ball.

He's unreal in terms of the points he hemorrhages on defense. Sags a mile back on PnR, makes glacial rotations, can't jump, has no idea how to front a post player, and is the worst rebounding center in the NBA.

He's my least favorite Sixer since Andrew Bynum.

I obviously haven't watched the Sixers as much as you, but that nicely sums up how I've always felt about Okafor's game going back to his college days.

Not a fan.

[LooseCannon]

Too early to write Okafor off, I mean the guy missed months of basketball and is a 2nd year big men.  Big guys always take awhile to develop, especially when coming back from injury and on a terrible team.  He still shows those flashes, like he did tonight against the Cavs.  7 of 11 for 14 points and 9 rebounds in 23 minutes.

I don't think it is too early to project that his defense will never be good as prime Al Jefferson.  How good does his offense have to be to justify a future max contract if his defense is that bad?

still have to laugh at the bizarre curve okafor is graded on.  All our young players continue to get a pass despite significant flaws at age 22/23.   And yet okafor still hasn't turned 21 years old and this is probably as good as he will ever be.  Yeah... ok....

I watched al Jefferson when he was 22.  He wasn't a good defender.  He wasn't a very good defender in his prime either.  Okafor is comparable.  Okafor can get much better though.

Bottom line is that Marcus smart is in the midst of his 3rd season proving he will never been a mediocre shooter in this league and yet myself and many other Celtic fans still think there's a chance he will figure it out.  Meanwhile okafor is like 60 games into NBA career and can't even legally drink and yet people think the kid is incapable of ever finding a role on defense.

I don't think Marcus Smart will ever be worth a max contract either.  Big men who start out playing defense at Okafor's level pretty much never become even average defenders.  I don't see any reason to think he will be atypical.

[Moranis]

https://twitter.com/stevekylerNBA/status/801423004446105600

Unsurprisingly, the Sixers have no interest in moving Okafor anymore and are focused solely on trading Noel. This isn't really surprising given that Okafor still has several more cheap rookie contract years compared to Noel, who is getting paid this summer.

So it's pretty much a foregone conclusion that Noel is traded by the deadline, right? It's surprising that not much has been discussed with him on the trade front recently, though I assume that a robust market with several interested teams emerges once he shows that he's healthy again with some playing time.

Of course, finding him enough playing time for that to happen will be a challenge, as Brown openly admits. Danny needs to jump on this ASAP.

I will say that Kyler has always reacted really negatively toward anyone who suggests that Jah might be moved. I'm not suggesting that he's unreliable, but it is always important to consider why information is out there. I doubt Kyler has anyone reason to engage in shenanigans, but maybe his source has some motive to get that info out there. I think a safe rule is to take any report with a grain of salt unless it comes from Woj.

Well, I mean it's not like this is something that's pretty controversial. It would seem logical that they would want to keep Okafor over Noel. Not only does Okafor have several more cheap years, there's also noted tension between Noel and the organization at this point due to the logjam.

True, true. I still tend to think that there's no place for Okafor there long-term.

He's the 4th best Center on the roster. He's been the Sixers worst player this year.

what makes him the worst? I know you watch more philly than anyone on the board.

He stops and palms the ball for 3+ seconds every time he touches it, he is awful at getting position in the low post, he sets terrible screens, he's just generally inefficient and that's his good side of the ball.

He's unreal in terms of the points he hemorrhages on defense. Sags a mile back on PnR, makes glacial rotations, can't jump, has no idea how to front a post player, and is the worst rebounding center in the NBA.

He's my least favorite Sixer since Andrew Bynum.

I'm mentioned this previously but crazy to hear this from someone that watches him a lot and is a 76ers fan.

I think you can put RAAAAAAAANDY solidly in the NOKAFOR camp.  Okafor certainly has significant issues but he gets disproportionately dumped on.  The Sixers guards stink defensively and are lousy feeding the post whether it is Embiid or Okafor posting up.  Getting constantly compared to Embiid doesn't help Okafor and neither does Porzingas looking so good so soon.   

fair point on Porzingis, but he actually isn't even that much a better rebounder than Okafor.  I mean per 36 they are pretty similar aside from the 3 point shots (and foul shooting).  Porzingis is just on a better team with an All Star playing with him from the get go.   

[green_bballers13]

Too early to write Okafor off, I mean the guy missed months of basketball and is a 2nd year big men.  Big guys always take awhile to develop, especially when coming back from injury and on a terrible team.  He still shows those flashes, like he did tonight against the Cavs.  7 of 11 for 14 points and 9 rebounds in 23 minutes.

I don't think it is too early to project that his defense will never be good as prime Al Jefferson.  How good does his offense have to be to justify a future max contract if his defense is that bad?

still have to laugh at the bizarre curve okafor is graded on.  All our young players continue to get a pass despite significant flaws at age 22/23.   And yet okafor still hasn't turned 21 years old and this is probably as good as he will ever be.  Yeah... ok....

I watched al Jefferson when he was 22.  He wasn't a good defender.  He wasn't a very good defender in his prime either.  Okafor is comparable.  Okafor can get much better though.

Bottom line is that Marcus smart is in the midst of his 3rd season proving he will never been a mediocre shooter in this league and yet myself and many other Celtic fans still think there's a chance he will figure it out.  Meanwhile okafor is like 60 games into NBA career and can't even legally drink and yet people think the kid is incapable of ever finding a role on defense.

LarBrd is right. People on this blog seem to hate Okafor. They would have a much different opinion if he played for the Celtics. There's no reason that he can't be Al Jefferson. Jefferson at age 20? I'd take him, gladly. Brook Lopez isn't a great defender either, but has made plenty of $ in the NBA.

Okafor doesn't have a lot of lateral quickness. What he does have is an advanced low post game for a 20 year old. Why can't his offense improve? Why is his defense destined to be so terrible?

It's ok to not want the player on your team, but I think you're fooling yourself if you think Okafor doesn't have potential.

[Moranis]

Too early to write Okafor off, I mean the guy missed months of basketball and is a 2nd year big men.  Big guys always take awhile to develop, especially when coming back from injury and on a terrible team.  He still shows those flashes, like he did tonight against the Cavs.  7 of 11 for 14 points and 9 rebounds in 23 minutes.

I don't think it is too early to project that his defense will never be good as prime Al Jefferson.  How good does his offense have to be to justify a future max contract if his defense is that bad?

still have to laugh at the bizarre curve okafor is graded on.  All our young players continue to get a pass despite significant flaws at age 22/23.   And yet okafor still hasn't turned 21 years old and this is probably as good as he will ever be.  Yeah... ok....

I watched al Jefferson when he was 22.  He wasn't a good defender.  He wasn't a very good defender in his prime either.  Okafor is comparable.  Okafor can get much better though.

Bottom line is that Marcus smart is in the midst of his 3rd season proving he will never been a mediocre shooter in this league and yet myself and many other Celtic fans still think there's a chance he will figure it out.  Meanwhile okafor is like 60 games into NBA career and can't even legally drink and yet people think the kid is incapable of ever finding a role on defense.

I don't think Marcus Smart will ever be worth a max contract either.  Big men who start out playing defense at Okafor's level pretty much never become even average defenders.  I don't see any reason to think he will be atypical.

Okafor is blocking more shots, generating more steals, and turning the ball over less this year than last year.  His AST% isn't that bad at over 8% (both years up slightly to 8.5% this year).  He is a poor rebounder and his shooting % is down from 3-10 feet, but is actually up 10-16 and 0-3 (and his foul shooting has been awful, but he is still getting to the line about the same rate).  This notion that he has been terrible and hasn't improved at all isn't actually borne in facts and that is with him coming back from an injury as a 2nd year big man that is still just 20 years old playing on a terrible team.

[BDeCosta26]

Too early to write Okafor off, I mean the guy missed months of basketball and is a 2nd year big men.  Big guys always take awhile to develop, especially when coming back from injury and on a terrible team.  He still shows those flashes, like he did tonight against the Cavs.  7 of 11 for 14 points and 9 rebounds in 23 minutes.

I don't think it is too early to project that his defense will never be good as prime Al Jefferson.  How good does his offense have to be to justify a future max contract if his defense is that bad?

still have to laugh at the bizarre curve okafor is graded on.  All our young players continue to get a pass despite significant flaws at age 22/23.   And yet okafor still hasn't turned 21 years old and this is probably as good as he will ever be.  Yeah... ok....

I watched al Jefferson when he was 22.  He wasn't a good defender.  He wasn't a very good defender in his prime either.  Okafor is comparable.  Okafor can get much better though.

Bottom line is that Marcus smart is in the midst of his 3rd season proving he will never been a mediocre shooter in this league and yet myself and many other Celtic fans still think there's a chance he will figure it out.  Meanwhile okafor is like 60 games into NBA career and can't even legally drink and yet people think the kid is incapable of ever finding a role on defense.

There's a big difference though. Smart is very good at many different things (Defense, court vision, rebounding, versatility, leadership) and struggles with one thing (Scoring) of which his shooting contributes to. It's fairly reasonable to believe that if he improved his shooting (something fairly common in the NBA) it would improve his scoring and you'd be looking at a pretty dang good player with all the other things he does well.

With By contrast, Okafor is very good at one thing (Low Post offense) and struggles with many others (Defense, rebounding, passing, shooting, switching, leadership). His one skill is very, very good and it's reasonable to believe that he could improve in one of those deficiencies, but even if he does (Say, rebounding) your still left with a 7 footer who needs the ball constantly to be effective on offense, is a poor defender who can't switch to save his life or protect the rim well, doesn't pass well out of double teams and is a p--- poor teammate.

See, that's the difference. People believe Smart can improve on his one big weakness and you'll have a great player. With Okafor, you have to hope he can improve on a bunch of his big weaknesses (Including things like switching, which you don't just improve at with time) just to have a net positive player. He has potential, but the odds of stardom are pretty dang low.

[green_bballers13]

Too early to write Okafor off, I mean the guy missed months of basketball and is a 2nd year big men.  Big guys always take awhile to develop, especially when coming back from injury and on a terrible team.  He still shows those flashes, like he did tonight against the Cavs.  7 of 11 for 14 points and 9 rebounds in 23 minutes.

I don't think it is too early to project that his defense will never be good as prime Al Jefferson.  How good does his offense have to be to justify a future max contract if his defense is that bad?

still have to laugh at the bizarre curve okafor is graded on.  All our young players continue to get a pass despite significant flaws at age 22/23.   And yet okafor still hasn't turned 21 years old and this is probably as good as he will ever be.  Yeah... ok....

I watched al Jefferson when he was 22.  He wasn't a good defender.  He wasn't a very good defender in his prime either.  Okafor is comparable.  Okafor can get much better though.

Bottom line is that Marcus smart is in the midst of his 3rd season proving he will never been a mediocre shooter in this league and yet myself and many other Celtic fans still think there's a chance he will figure it out.  Meanwhile okafor is like 60 games into NBA career and can't even legally drink and yet people think the kid is incapable of ever finding a role on defense.

There's a big difference though. Smart is very good at many different things (Defense, court vision, rebounding, versatility, leadership) and struggles with one thing (Scoring) of which his shooting contributes to. It's fairly reasonable to believe that if he improved his shooting (something fairly common in the NBA) it would improve his scoring and you'd be looking at a pretty dang good player with all the other things he does well.

With By contrast, Okafor is very good at one thing (Low Post offense) and struggles with many others (Defense, rebounding, passing, shooting, switching, leadership). His one skill is very, very good and it's reasonable to believe that he could improve in one of those deficiencies, but even if he does (Say, rebounding) your still left with a 7 footer who needs the ball constantly to be effective on offense, is a poor defender who can't switch to save his life or protect the rim well, doesn't pass well out of double teams and is a p--- poor teammate.

See, that's the difference. People believe Smart can improve on his one big weakness and you'll have a great player. With Okafor, you have to hope he can improve on a bunch of his big weaknesses (Including things like switching, which you don't just improve at with time) just to have a net positive player. He has potential, but the odds of stardom are pretty dang low.

Odds of stardom? James Harden, Carmelo Anthony, etc. are stars and not known for their defense. Your criticisms of him mostly exist on the defensive side of the ball. He's 20- there's time for him to improve.

Poor teammate? Where are you getting that? Coach K loves the dude. He plays on a bad team. Bad teams often have chemistry issues.

[LooseCannon]

Too early to write Okafor off, I mean the guy missed months of basketball and is a 2nd year big men.  Big guys always take awhile to develop, especially when coming back from injury and on a terrible team.  He still shows those flashes, like he did tonight against the Cavs.  7 of 11 for 14 points and 9 rebounds in 23 minutes.

I don't think it is too early to project that his defense will never be good as prime Al Jefferson.  How good does his offense have to be to justify a future max contract if his defense is that bad?

still have to laugh at the bizarre curve okafor is graded on.  All our young players continue to get a pass despite significant flaws at age 22/23.   And yet okafor still hasn't turned 21 years old and this is probably as good as he will ever be.  Yeah... ok....

I watched al Jefferson when he was 22.  He wasn't a good defender.  He wasn't a very good defender in his prime either.  Okafor is comparable.  Okafor can get much better though.

Bottom line is that Marcus smart is in the midst of his 3rd season proving he will never been a mediocre shooter in this league and yet myself and many other Celtic fans still think there's a chance he will figure it out.  Meanwhile okafor is like 60 games into NBA career and can't even legally drink and yet people think the kid is incapable of ever finding a role on defense.

There's a big difference though. Smart is very good at many different things (Defense, court vision, rebounding, versatility, leadership) and struggles with one thing (Scoring) of which his shooting contributes to. It's fairly reasonable to believe that if he improved his shooting (something fairly common in the NBA) it would improve his scoring and you'd be looking at a pretty dang good player with all the other things he does well.

With By contrast, Okafor is very good at one thing (Low Post offense) and struggles with many others (Defense, rebounding, passing, shooting, switching, leadership). His one skill is very, very good and it's reasonable to believe that he could improve in one of those deficiencies, but even if he does (Say, rebounding) your still left with a 7 footer who needs the ball constantly to be effective on offense, is a poor defender who can't switch to save his life or protect the rim well, doesn't pass well out of double teams and is a p--- poor teammate.

See, that's the difference. People believe Smart can improve on his one big weakness and you'll have a great player. With Okafor, you have to hope he can improve on a bunch of his big weaknesses (Including things like switching, which you don't just improve at with time) just to have a net positive player. He has potential, but the odds of stardom are pretty dang low.

Odds of stardom? James Harden, Carmelo Anthony, etc. are stars and not known for their defense. Your criticisms of him mostly exist on the defensive side of the ball. He's 20- there's time for him to improve.

Poor teammate? Where are you getting that? Coach K loves the dude. He plays on a bad team. Bad teams often have chemistry issues.

Harden and Carmelo are trash, though.

[green_bballers13]

Harden and Carmelo are trash?

I'm sure if you put the right defensive team together, you'd be fine watching them score 30 pts per game.

Both play on teams lacking talent (besides Porzingis). So do Demarcus Cousins and Anthony Davis. Are they worthless too?

[LooseCannon]

Harden and Carmelo are trash?

I'm sure if you put the right defensive team together, you'd be fine watching them score 30 pts per game.

Both play on teams lacking talent (besides Porzingis). So do Demarcus Cousins and Anthony Davis. Are they worthless too?

I like the Brad Stevens goal of trying to have the best defense and run the fewest isolation plays on offense.  I hate players who are the opposite of that.

[green_bballers13]

Lebron loves the iso, but b/c he has teammates that can score, is able to pass to them and register the assists needed to log triple doubles. I'm not saying that Melo and Harden are passers like Lebron. I'm saying that LBJ has players to pass to, and Melo/Harden are limited by their teams. Carmelo was one of the leaders of Team USA in the past Olympics.

Let's not use hyperbole such as "they are trash" to make the point that you don't like them. It's ok to not like Jahlil Okafor either. To purport that Okafor also is "trash" makes conversations based on logic challenging.

Also, a side note: people like Trump call other people trash. Don't be that guy.