Woj: Sixers plan on moving one of Noel or Okafor "eventually"

[MBunge]

If you want Noel before the trade deadline, I think Philly asks for assets commensurate with the idea that his new team will match any offer sheet.  At the deadline, I think they come down on price a bit, but won't just give him away to the highest bidder for the sake of trading him.

I don't buy this part. They're pretty much forced to trade him at this point, even if it's for pennies on the dollar. By all accounts from every source, Noel and the team are on different wavelengths and priorities. They're simply not going to pay him this summer, and they might as well pick up something for him rather than nothing at all.

And if they do try and match offer sheets this summer and trade him later on while only playing him very minimal minutes with their major logjam, they'll ruin their relationship with players and agents across the league and will do considerable damage to themselves over the long run. The Colangelos know this, which is why they won't do it. The NBA is a relationship-driven league, and screwing over a player/agent like this is just terrible business.

Showing a willingness to give in and accept crumbs in return hampers the ability to ask for more in future trades.  You need to show the resolve to stick to high demands so that other GMs don't simply try to outwait you and wait for you to cave.

If Noel elects to play for the qualifying offer next year, Philly can't trade him.  They can certainly hold the line and just let walk for nothing, but how attractive does that make Philly to free agents?  Who wants to go work for management that inflexible and dismissive of what a player and his agent wants?

Mike

[RAAAAAAAANDY]

https://twitter.com/stevekylerNBA/status/801423004446105600

Unsurprisingly, the Sixers have no interest in moving Okafor anymore and are focused solely on trading Noel. This isn't really surprising given that Okafor still has several more cheap rookie contract years compared to Noel, who is getting paid this summer.

So it's pretty much a foregone conclusion that Noel is traded by the deadline, right? It's surprising that not much has been discussed with him on the trade front recently, though I assume that a robust market with several interested teams emerges once he shows that he's healthy again with some playing time.

Of course, finding him enough playing time for that to happen will be a challenge, as Brown openly admits. Danny needs to jump on this ASAP.

I will say that Kyler has always reacted really negatively toward anyone who suggests that Jah might be moved. I'm not suggesting that he's unreliable, but it is always important to consider why information is out there. I doubt Kyler has anyone reason to engage in shenanigans, but maybe his source has some motive to get that info out there. I think a safe rule is to take any report with a grain of salt unless it comes from Woj.

Well, I mean it's not like this is something that's pretty controversial. It would seem logical that they would want to keep Okafor over Noel. Not only does Okafor have several more cheap years, there's also noted tension between Noel and the organization at this point due to the logjam.

True, true. I still tend to think that there's no place for Okafor there long-term.

He's the 4th best Center on the roster. He's been the Sixers worst player this year.

[LatterDayCelticsfan]

Maybe the 6ers find a wat to swap a rental for some other rental at the deadline?

[celticsclay]

https://twitter.com/stevekylerNBA/status/801423004446105600

Unsurprisingly, the Sixers have no interest in moving Okafor anymore and are focused solely on trading Noel. This isn't really surprising given that Okafor still has several more cheap rookie contract years compared to Noel, who is getting paid this summer.

So it's pretty much a foregone conclusion that Noel is traded by the deadline, right? It's surprising that not much has been discussed with him on the trade front recently, though I assume that a robust market with several interested teams emerges once he shows that he's healthy again with some playing time.

Of course, finding him enough playing time for that to happen will be a challenge, as Brown openly admits. Danny needs to jump on this ASAP.

I will say that Kyler has always reacted really negatively toward anyone who suggests that Jah might be moved. I'm not suggesting that he's unreliable, but it is always important to consider why information is out there. I doubt Kyler has anyone reason to engage in shenanigans, but maybe his source has some motive to get that info out there. I think a safe rule is to take any report with a grain of salt unless it comes from Woj.

Well, I mean it's not like this is something that's pretty controversial. It would seem logical that they would want to keep Okafor over Noel. Not only does Okafor have several more cheap years, there's also noted tension between Noel and the organization at this point due to the logjam.

True, true. I still tend to think that there's no place for Okafor there long-term.

He's the 4th best Center on the roster. He's been the Sixers worst player this year.

what makes him the worst? I know you watch more philly than anyone on the board.

[celticsclay]

Had this another thread, but it's probably more applicable here.


Just to point out what an awful rebounder Okafor is:

He's averaging 3.5 RPG in 20 MPG. Over his last 5 games, you know now that the rust is off, he's averaged 2.8 RPG in 21.MPG. He has grabbed 14 rebounds over his last 106 minutes. For comparison, "small" 2 guard Avery Bradley is averaging 8.1 RPG in 35.7 MPG.

So he doesn't just suck at defense...

Zach Lowe said in one of his last couple of podcasts, the probable future of the post player that can't defend or pass is that of the primary bench scorer. If I recall, he even mentioned Okafor as one of them by name.

But at least he's young.

will have add him to the list of people with concerns on okafor. Most people think is the greatest at analyzing the game out there at the moment.

[trickybilly]

https://twitter.com/stevekylerNBA/status/801423004446105600

Unsurprisingly, the Sixers have no interest in moving Okafor anymore and are focused solely on trading Noel. This isn't really surprising given that Okafor still has several more cheap rookie contract years compared to Noel, who is getting paid this summer.

So it's pretty much a foregone conclusion that Noel is traded by the deadline, right? It's surprising that not much has been discussed with him on the trade front recently, though I assume that a robust market with several interested teams emerges once he shows that he's healthy again with some playing time.

Of course, finding him enough playing time for that to happen will be a challenge, as Brown openly admits. Danny needs to jump on this ASAP.

I will say that Kyler has always reacted really negatively toward anyone who suggests that Jah might be moved. I'm not suggesting that he's unreliable, but it is always important to consider why information is out there. I doubt Kyler has anyone reason to engage in shenanigans, but maybe his source has some motive to get that info out there. I think a safe rule is to take any report with a grain of salt unless it comes from Woj.

Well, I mean it's not like this is something that's pretty controversial. It would seem logical that they would want to keep Okafor over Noel. Not only does Okafor have several more cheap years, there's also noted tension between Noel and the organization at this point due to the logjam.

True, true. I still tend to think that there's no place for Okafor there long-term.

He's the 4th best Center on the roster. He's been the Sixers worst player this year.

what makes him the worst? I know you watch more philly than anyone on the board.

Not playing yet this year!! should be back any minute now

[chambers]

Right now he looks like a poor man's version of Enes Kanter with a better mid range game and worse rebounding. Both are average defenders.

[celticsclay]

https://twitter.com/stevekylerNBA/status/801423004446105600

Unsurprisingly, the Sixers have no interest in moving Okafor anymore and are focused solely on trading Noel. This isn't really surprising given that Okafor still has several more cheap rookie contract years compared to Noel, who is getting paid this summer.

So it's pretty much a foregone conclusion that Noel is traded by the deadline, right? It's surprising that not much has been discussed with him on the trade front recently, though I assume that a robust market with several interested teams emerges once he shows that he's healthy again with some playing time.

Of course, finding him enough playing time for that to happen will be a challenge, as Brown openly admits. Danny needs to jump on this ASAP.

I will say that Kyler has always reacted really negatively toward anyone who suggests that Jah might be moved. I'm not suggesting that he's unreliable, but it is always important to consider why information is out there. I doubt Kyler has anyone reason to engage in shenanigans, but maybe his source has some motive to get that info out there. I think a safe rule is to take any report with a grain of salt unless it comes from Woj.

Well, I mean it's not like this is something that's pretty controversial. It would seem logical that they would want to keep Okafor over Noel. Not only does Okafor have several more cheap years, there's also noted tension between Noel and the organization at this point due to the logjam.

True, true. I still tend to think that there's no place for Okafor there long-term.

He's the 4th best Center on the roster. He's been the Sixers worst player this year.

what makes him the worst? I know you watch more philly than anyone on the board.

I believe Randy was saying okafor was their worst player.
Not playing yet this year!! should be back any minute now

[BDeCosta26]

https://twitter.com/stevekylerNBA/status/801423004446105600

Unsurprisingly, the Sixers have no interest in moving Okafor anymore and are focused solely on trading Noel. This isn't really surprising given that Okafor still has several more cheap rookie contract years compared to Noel, who is getting paid this summer.

So it's pretty much a foregone conclusion that Noel is traded by the deadline, right? It's surprising that not much has been discussed with him on the trade front recently, though I assume that a robust market with several interested teams emerges once he shows that he's healthy again with some playing time.

Of course, finding him enough playing time for that to happen will be a challenge, as Brown openly admits. Danny needs to jump on this ASAP.

I will say that Kyler has always reacted really negatively toward anyone who suggests that Jah might be moved. I'm not suggesting that he's unreliable, but it is always important to consider why information is out there. I doubt Kyler has anyone reason to engage in shenanigans, but maybe his source has some motive to get that info out there. I think a safe rule is to take any report with a grain of salt unless it comes from Woj.

Well, I mean it's not like this is something that's pretty controversial. It would seem logical that they would want to keep Okafor over Noel. Not only does Okafor have several more cheap years, there's also noted tension between Noel and the organization at this point due to the logjam.

True, true. I still tend to think that there's no place for Okafor there long-term.

He's the 4th best Center on the roster. He's been the Sixers worst player this year.

As I've been saying forever, Okafor just isn't that good. He's got elite level post moves, and a below average to terrible game everywhere else. The only way to utilize him effectively is by constantly feeding him the ball in the post, which takes the ball out of your other players hands, and he's just not good enough to justify doing that on a decent team. He needs to significantly improve as a defender and a passer if he's ever going to be a positive contributor on a winning team, and I just don't think he's physically capable of doing that.

He'll be lucky is he ever reaches Al Jefferson levels in today's NBA

[Moranis]

Too early to write Okafor off, I mean the guy missed months of basketball and is a 2nd year big men.  Big guys always take awhile to develop, especially when coming back from injury and on a terrible team.  He still shows those flashes, like he did tonight against the Cavs.  7 of 11 for 14 points and 9 rebounds in 23 minutes. 

[kraidstar]

Give me Noel. I don't want Drew Gooden 2.0 

[BDeCosta26]

Too early to write Okafor off, I mean the guy missed months of basketball and is a 2nd year big men.  Big guys always take awhile to develop, especially when coming back from injury and on a terrible team.  He still shows those flashes, like he did tonight against the Cavs.  7 of 11 for 14 points and 9 rebounds in 23 minutes.

People are going to say that for the next year or two. It's "too early" to call him a bust or an average player, but it ignores the main problem with Okafor's game. Is he ever gonna be able to be a true "rim-protector"? (Probably not). Will he ever be able to switch onto 4's and large 3's to meaningfully contribute to a strong team defense? (Almost certainly not, as he just lacks the physical ability and defensive awareness/intensity to do that). Will he ever develop a reliable 20+ foot shot? (Possible, but not likely, considering he hasn't mastered the 15 footer yet) Can he use his elite post game to draw double teams and kick out for open shots? (He could, but it's not like he's a Monroe/Gasol level passer and he's currently not doing that very well). Can he improve his mediocre rebounding? (Could happen, but early signs aren't encouraging. He sure doesn't have a nose for boards like Drummond or DJ).

Most importantly, can he improve enough in ALL of those areas I mentioned to make it worth a teams while to design their offense around his post skills? I just don't think so. He's lacking so much in the rebounding/defensive/ball movement areas that I can't see him ever improving enough to justify giving him major minutes on a decent team. He's almost useless if your not feeding him the ball in the post, which makes him (AT BEST) a primary bench scorer.

I know people will say "give him time" or "he has the chance to be great" but I just don't see it. His one really incredible basketball skill can't outweigh all his huge negatives he brings, and I just can't see a way in which he improves in so many different areas that it could justify playing him major minutes on a winning team.

[celticsclay]

Too early to write Okafor off, I mean the guy missed months of basketball and is a 2nd year big men.  Big guys always take awhile to develop, especially when coming back from injury and on a terrible team.  He still shows those flashes, like he did tonight against the Cavs.  7 of 11 for 14 points and 9 rebounds in 23 minutes.

People are going to say that for the next year or two. It's "too early" to call him a bust or an average player, but it ignores the main problem with Okafor's game. Is he ever gonna be able to be a true "rim-protector"? (Probably not). Will he ever be able to switch onto 4's and large 3's to meaningfully contribute to a strong team defense? (Almost certainly not, as he just lacks the physical ability and defensive awareness/intensity to do that). Will he ever develop a reliable 20+ foot shot? (Possible, but not likely, considering he hasn't mastered the 15 footer yet) Can he use his elite post game to draw double teams and kick out for open shots? (He could, but it's not like he's a Monroe/Gasol level passer and he's currently not doing that very well). Can he improve his mediocre rebounding? (Could happen, but early signs aren't encouraging. He sure doesn't have a nose for boards like Drummond or DJ).

Most importantly, can he improve enough in ALL of those areas I mentioned to make it worth a teams while to design their offense around his post skills? I just don't think so. He's lacking so much in the rebounding/defensive/ball movement areas that I can't see him ever improving enough to justify giving him major minutes on a decent team. He's almost useless if your not feeding him the ball in the post, which makes him (AT BEST) a primary bench scorer.

I know people will say "give him time" or "he has the chance to be great" but I just don't see it. His one really incredible basketball skill can't outweigh all his huge negatives he brings, and I just can't see a way in which he improves in so many different areas that it could justify playing him major minutes on a winning team.

This is really 100% how I feel. Tp and well said.

[Monkhouse]

Too early to write Okafor off, I mean the guy missed months of basketball and is a 2nd year big men.  Big guys always take awhile to develop, especially when coming back from injury and on a terrible team.  He still shows those flashes, like he did tonight against the Cavs.  7 of 11 for 14 points and 9 rebounds in 23 minutes.

People are going to say that for the next year or two. It's "too early" to call him a bust or an average player, but it ignores the main problem with Okafor's game. Is he ever gonna be able to be a true "rim-protector"? (Probably not). Will he ever be able to switch onto 4's and large 3's to meaningfully contribute to a strong team defense? (Almost certainly not, as he just lacks the physical ability and defensive awareness/intensity to do that). Will he ever develop a reliable 20+ foot shot? (Possible, but not likely, considering he hasn't mastered the 15 footer yet) Can he use his elite post game to draw double teams and kick out for open shots? (He could, but it's not like he's a Monroe/Gasol level passer and he's currently not doing that very well). Can he improve his mediocre rebounding? (Could happen, but early signs aren't encouraging. He sure doesn't have a nose for boards like Drummond or DJ).

Most importantly, can he improve enough in ALL of those areas I mentioned to make it worth a teams while to design their offense around his post skills? I just don't think so. He's lacking so much in the rebounding/defensive/ball movement areas that I can't see him ever improving enough to justify giving him major minutes on a decent team. He's almost useless if your not feeding him the ball in the post, which makes him (AT BEST) a primary bench scorer.

I know people will say "give him time" or "he has the chance to be great" but I just don't see it. His one really incredible basketball skill can't outweigh all his huge negatives he brings, and I just can't see a way in which he improves in so many different areas that it could justify playing him major minutes on a winning team.

This is really 100% how I feel. Tp and well said.

Too early to write Okafor off, I mean the guy missed months of basketball and is a 2nd year big men.  Big guys always take awhile to develop, especially when coming back from injury and on a terrible team.  He still shows those flashes, like he did tonight against the Cavs.  7 of 11 for 14 points and 9 rebounds in 23 minutes.

People are going to say that for the next year or two. It's "too early" to call him a bust or an average player, but it ignores the main problem with Okafor's game. Is he ever gonna be able to be a true "rim-protector"? (Probably not). Will he ever be able to switch onto 4's and large 3's to meaningfully contribute to a strong team defense? (Almost certainly not, as he just lacks the physical ability and defensive awareness/intensity to do that). Will he ever develop a reliable 20+ foot shot? (Possible, but not likely, considering he hasn't mastered the 15 footer yet) Can he use his elite post game to draw double teams and kick out for open shots? (He could, but it's not like he's a Monroe/Gasol level passer and he's currently not doing that very well). Can he improve his mediocre rebounding? (Could happen, but early signs aren't encouraging. He sure doesn't have a nose for boards like Drummond or DJ).

Most importantly, can he improve enough in ALL of those areas I mentioned to make it worth a teams while to design their offense around his post skills? I just don't think so. He's lacking so much in the rebounding/defensive/ball movement areas that I can't see him ever improving enough to justify giving him major minutes on a decent team. He's almost useless if your not feeding him the ball in the post, which makes him (AT BEST) a primary bench scorer.

I know people will say "give him time" or "he has the chance to be great" but I just don't see it. His one really incredible basketball skill can't outweigh all his huge negatives he brings, and I just can't see a way in which he improves in so many different areas that it could justify playing him major minutes on a winning team.

I agree... Nailed it.

TP.

[RAAAAAAAANDY]

https://twitter.com/stevekylerNBA/status/801423004446105600

Unsurprisingly, the Sixers have no interest in moving Okafor anymore and are focused solely on trading Noel. This isn't really surprising given that Okafor still has several more cheap rookie contract years compared to Noel, who is getting paid this summer.

So it's pretty much a foregone conclusion that Noel is traded by the deadline, right? It's surprising that not much has been discussed with him on the trade front recently, though I assume that a robust market with several interested teams emerges once he shows that he's healthy again with some playing time.

Of course, finding him enough playing time for that to happen will be a challenge, as Brown openly admits. Danny needs to jump on this ASAP.

I will say that Kyler has always reacted really negatively toward anyone who suggests that Jah might be moved. I'm not suggesting that he's unreliable, but it is always important to consider why information is out there. I doubt Kyler has anyone reason to engage in shenanigans, but maybe his source has some motive to get that info out there. I think a safe rule is to take any report with a grain of salt unless it comes from Woj.

Well, I mean it's not like this is something that's pretty controversial. It would seem logical that they would want to keep Okafor over Noel. Not only does Okafor have several more cheap years, there's also noted tension between Noel and the organization at this point due to the logjam.

True, true. I still tend to think that there's no place for Okafor there long-term.

He's the 4th best Center on the roster. He's been the Sixers worst player this year.

what makes him the worst? I know you watch more philly than anyone on the board.

He stops and palms the ball for 3+ seconds every time he touches it, he is awful at getting position in the low post, he sets terrible screens, he's just generally inefficient and that's his good side of the ball.

He's unreal in terms of the points he hemorrhages on defense. Sags a mile back on PnR, makes glacial rotations, can't jump, has no idea how to front a post player, and is the worst rebounding center in the NBA.

He's my least favorite Sixer since Andrew Bynum.