Rumor: Celtics, among others, in contact with Sixers about Noel/Okafor

[jpotter33]

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/06/21/report-76ers-promise-to-draft-ben-simmons-no-1/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

76ers supposedly promise Simmons to take him number one. Still have no rotation-caliber 1's, 2's, or 3's on the roster.

Also supposedly looking to move 24 and 26 to get into top-8 (yeah right).

http://www.thescore.com/nba/news/1047290?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

So, yeah, LarBrd33, Okafor and Noel still up for a number three straight up swap, huh? They've obviously not offered up enough to entice Ainge to give up the number three yet, which means neither of them are worth the number three pick straight up.

I read that they want to play Simmons at the 1....I'm not sure if he'll have success there. Not sure if that's a smokescreen.

Yeah, I hear the point guard argument, but that didn't really work out with Giannis too well either, who has an ever better handle, though not the passing as Simmons. I don't see why you wouldn't just play him as a point forward and just run the ball through him. He's not a guard by any means - he can't shoot to save his life. He's a point forward-type.

I think they're just trying to rationalize taking yet another not-so-ideal fit with their current roster when better-fitting options are at play. If they're going to take him regardless, just have the balls to say they're taking BPA regardless of fit. It hasn't worked out too well for them the last three years, but, who knows, maybe this time it will.

[jpotter33]

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/06/21/report-76ers-promise-to-draft-ben-simmons-no-1/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

76ers supposedly promise Simmons to take him number one. Still have no rotation-caliber 1's, 2's, or 3's on the roster.

Also supposedly looking to move 24 and 26 to get into top-8 (yeah right).

http://www.thescore.com/nba/news/1047290?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

So, yeah, LarBrd33, Okafor and Noel still up for a number three straight up swap, huh? They've obviously not offered up enough to entice Ainge to give up the number three yet, which means neither of them are worth the number three pick straight up.

am I supposed to read these links or is there something specific you are trying to point out?

There's still plenty of buzz about 3 for Okafor/Noel.  We will see what happens one way or the other.

Yeah, they're trying to get in the top-8 with their later two first round picks for a guard, because their offer of Okafor or Noel for number three isn't being accepted. It's pretty simple.

[LarBrd33]

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/06/21/report-76ers-promise-to-draft-ben-simmons-no-1/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

76ers supposedly promise Simmons to take him number one. Still have no rotation-caliber 1's, 2's, or 3's on the roster.

Also supposedly looking to move 24 and 26 to get into top-8 (yeah right).

http://www.thescore.com/nba/news/1047290?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

So, yeah, LarBrd33, Okafor and Noel still up for a number three straight up swap, huh? They've obviously not offered up enough to entice Ainge to give up the number three yet, which means neither of them are worth the number three pick straight up.

am I supposed to read these links or is there something specific you are trying to point out?

There's still plenty of buzz about 3 for Okafor/Noel.  We will see what happens one way or the other.

Yeah, they're trying to get in the top-8 with their later two first round picks for a guard, because their offer of Okafor or Noel for number three isn't being accepted. It's pretty simple.

Cool story.  If they think 24 and 26 will get them into the top 8, that speaks volumes about how they view the picks in the 3-8 range.

If anything, I'd expect that leak to come from Philly.  "We don't need to trade Noel or okafor to get Dunn.  The picks in that range stink. Should be able to just trade up with our late 1sts."

Can't wait for Thursday so this madness will end.

[chiken Green]

Can't believe people just crap all over the 20 year old Okafor like he's worth nothing. This talent would be a great get. Big man talent like him don't grow on trees in this league. He's got a shot at being special and you've seen him already for 1 year.

He's got a shot at being Al Jefferson but worse.

[LarBrd33]

Can't believe people just crap all over the 20 year old Okafor like he's worth nothing. This talent would be a great get. Big man talent like him don't grow on trees in this league. He's got a shot at being special and you've seen him already for 1 year.

He's got a shot at being Al Jefferson but worse.

i see big al as his floor.  He might already be better offensively at age 20 than Jefferson was at 23.

[kozlodoev]

Can't believe people just crap all over the 20 year old Okafor like he's worth nothing. This talent would be a great get. Big man talent like him don't grow on trees in this league. He's got a shot at being special and you've seen him already for 1 year.

He's got a shot at being Al Jefferson but worse.

i see big al as his floor.  He might already be better offensively at age 20 than Jefferson was at 23.

Even defensively. Jefferson was never particularly advanced in that area. The only skill that Jefferson has a clear advantage in is rebounding.

[walker834]

We need to be careful about trading Philly Dunn to pair with Simmons and Embiid.  It would be nice to get both Okafor and Noel though.

I feel like the sixers really want that combo of Simmons, Embiid and Dunn.

They are in our division.  They really want Dunn and are the team instigating here.  I hope DA knows this.

[jpotter33]

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/06/21/report-76ers-promise-to-draft-ben-simmons-no-1/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

76ers supposedly promise Simmons to take him number one. Still have no rotation-caliber 1's, 2's, or 3's on the roster.

Also supposedly looking to move 24 and 26 to get into top-8 (yeah right).

http://www.thescore.com/nba/news/1047290?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

So, yeah, LarBrd33, Okafor and Noel still up for a number three straight up swap, huh? They've obviously not offered up enough to entice Ainge to give up the number three yet, which means neither of them are worth the number three pick straight up.

am I supposed to read these links or is there something specific you are trying to point out?

There's still plenty of buzz about 3 for Okafor/Noel.  We will see what happens one way or the other.

Yeah, they're trying to get in the top-8 with their later two first round picks for a guard, because their offer of Okafor or Noel for number three isn't being accepted. It's pretty simple.

Cool story.  If they think 24 and 26 will get them into the top 8, that speaks volumes about how they view the picks in the 3-8 range.

If anything, I'd expect that leak to come from Philly.  "We don't need to trade Noel or okafor to get Dunn.  The picks in that range stink. Should be able to just trade up with our late 1sts."

Can't wait for Thursday so this madness will end.

This logic, though..

[CoachBo]

Everyone who relies on advanced stats - in addition to that mistake - to hate on Okafor, makes another mistake. He's going to improve. He's 19.

Sorry to break it to you.

It isn't all about analytics.  Did you watch what was happening in the finals to Ezili?  The Cavs were pulling him out to the perimeter and targeting him.  G.S. was doing the same thing to Adams and Kanter in the O.K.C. series.  You force switches on the perimeter to get a slow big on a smaller quicker guy and shoot over him or beat him off the dribble.  It happened all season and is only going to escalate even more because guys like Okafor can't begin to defend this or even there own man when defending someone like Olynyk, Bender Or Porzingis.  Gasol and Randolph, Hibbert, Monroe, Big Al etc. are all going to struggle mightily if they are not allowed to stay near the paint, they simply do not have the foot speed to defend on the perimeter. 

There is just no way you can give up the quality scoring opportunities that slow bigs are going to give up in the foreseeable future and get enough offense out of a post scoring big centered offense to win games, let alone titles.  If the Celtics brass don't see this and make the mistake of trading for Okafor I will be shocked beyond belief.

And here, dear reader, is a perfect example of the mistake I allude to.

Okafor hate on this board is ALWAYS linked to the notion that what you saw last year is all you possibly can get from him.

Nothing - nothing - could be further from the truth and any claim otherwise should not be taken seriously. It's nonsense.

There are reasons, and then there are excuses. You see the latter above.

Sad news for all the people who can't stand this kid: He is going to get better. All elements of his game will improve, from his body evolving out of his teen years to his offense, defense, rebounding, et al. Ainge was NOT wrong to inquire about him at the deadline.

To give yourself a chance to win a title with bigs that do not have great foot speed and do not spread the floor to a high level all you will have to do is build the Spurs.  You get guys to take pay cuts, a ton of very good big men, perfect roll players, an amazing SF, the best bench in the league, with the best coach in the league, playing the best defense in the league and you got yourself a title contender.

OR you build a team centered around bigs that can spread the floor, that have good foot speed  and can defend the entire floor.  This will allow you to win with less talent because those floor spacers will make everyone else's life much easier on offense.  More room to attack the basket because the shot blockers are not there to defend the hoop.  More open 3's, they will outrun you and you will be able to more successfully defend the perimeter.

People are under this delusion that your big men must rebound, defend the rim and score in the post and they do to an extent but there is way more to it than that.  The game has changed.  If you want to build the Spurs I wish you luck.  I will draft Bender, Lab, maybe Chriss, Davis or take a shot at Maker, whoever I can get my grubby little hands on.  Porzingis is the one that got away.  Olynyk is NOT getting traded.

I look at this draft as a great litmus test for the Celtics.  I really want to see if they get it or if they are going to punt the whole thing and make a mistake like acquiring Okafor.  I believe Danny and Brad get it and nothing they have done the last 3 years tells me they don't.

It is not specifically Okafor that I don't want.  I do not want anything to do with his archetype in today's NBA.  It is insanely difficult to build a title contender around.

Then we're going to have to agree to disagree, because there is literally nothing in your post I agree with.

Nothing.

[CoachBo]

Can't believe people just crap all over the 20 year old Okafor like he's worth nothing. This talent would be a great get. Big man talent like him don't grow on trees in this league. He's got a shot at being special and you've seen him already for 1 year.

He's got a shot at being Al Jefferson but worse.

i see big al as his floor.  He might already be better offensively at age 20 than Jefferson was at 23.

And he plays hard. Jefferson is a loafer. Once he gets into shape and gets into a coherent system, he'll develop every aspect of his game. The idea of Stevens getting hold of him - instead of a stick figure whose workouts stink who needs five years of work at the minimum - is very enticing.

But that's an inconvenient narrative for the draftniks.

[Casperian]

Watch what that chair drops on Bender.

25.

Ainge has a responsibility to work the best deal he can for the pick, and it certainly needs to be more than Noel, and probably so for Okafor, too.

Doesn't change the absolutely ridiculous evaluations of Okafor's rookie year offered on this board. Between those and the hyperbole around the stick figure that is Bender, the laughs from this forum have been many.

Yeah, that was a good joke...when I made it.

No idea why you bring up Bender, since I'm not on the Bender train, either. Luckily, we have a few more options then just choosing between Okafor or Bender.

However, if it came down to it, I'd choose the mystery man behind door 3 over the known net negative, Monty.

Okafor could get better for the next 30 years, and he still wouldn't be good enough to hold KAT's, Green's or Davis' jockstrap. If everything goes right for him, he'll top out as top 15, top 20 at his position. He's not only physically, but also mentally slow on defense. He's somewhere in the bottom 10% of all eligible centers in the league in defensive rebounding. On the freaking sixers. You can't disregard a glaringly obvious stat like that with the eye test, especially if my eye test confirms it.

People say he'll learn from his off-court mistakes. Why would he? Everyone is still drooling over his "potential", and bending over backwards to excuse his shortcomings. He'll learn nothing except how many ass-kissers there are in professional sports.

That guy has "trap" written all over him, in neon letters. Josh Smith level trap. Lots of empty stats, good enough to fool some poor sob into a max contract, but never good enough to move the needle. It's kind of amusing that you of all people want the Rajon Rondo of centers on our team.

[chiken Green]

He's got a shot at being Al Jefferson but worse.
[/quote]i see big al as his floor.  He might already be better offensively at age 20 than Jefferson was at 23.
[/quote]
Even defensively. Jefferson was never particularly advanced in that area. The only skill that Jefferson has a clear advantage in is rebounding.
[/quote]
This Scares the Devil out of me because even if he is slightly better offensively (which is a stretch but okay) it doesnt help our team.. but lets say he is Better offensively than Al it means nothing today because  AL J is not a Centerpiece for a Championship caliber team..  That skill set.. Low Post Monster - ZERO on the defense and Rebounding..  has been run out of the game.
Look around the league - how many of these Dinosaurs are left??  Bigs who cant rebound and play Defense but can score from 10-15 ft..  Whats the point in scoring 2 but giving up 2 +1 (fouls shots)

In Today's game if they are slow footed they are not effective because Offenses are designed to get them out on the perimeter and blow by them.  And when your defense is forced to collapse - you end up giving up the 3.. 

Okafor is a dead breed.. A championship has not been won around that kind of Center since Shaq or Duncans younger years..

And if your going to suggest that he is an olajuwon type of player.... whew lawd..

[The Oracle]

Can't believe people just crap all over the 20 year old Okafor like he's worth nothing. This talent would be a great get. Big man talent like him don't grow on trees in this league. He's got a shot at being special and you've seen him already for 1 year.

He's got a shot at being Al Jefferson but worse.

i see big al as his floor.  He might already be better offensively at age 20 than Jefferson was at 23.

And he plays hard. Jefferson is a loafer. Once he gets into shape and gets into a coherent system, he'll develop every aspect of his game. The idea of Stevens getting hold of him - instead of a stick figure whose workouts stink who needs five years of work at the minimum - is very enticing.

But that's an inconvenient narrative for the draftniks.

Do you honestly think it will take Bender 5 years to become Jerebko?  He might be Jerebko good by the start of the season.  Make the open 3, take easy buckets, play hard and play defense, that's all that is needed to fill a role immediately.  If he develops into a stud it will take a couple 3 years maybe.

[Celtics18]

My major concern with Okafor is how ball dominant he is (and needs to be to be effective) offensively.  Many of you are pointing out how talented he is and how he will probably keep improving due to his youth.  I don't disagree with either of those statements.  However, I don't see him changing from being a guy who needs to control the ball a lot on offense. 

I think chances are good that Okafor never becomes much of an off-the-ball player.  That is, he's not a catch and shoot guy and he's not a roll to the rim guy.  He's a guy you feed in the post and ask to go to work and create a shot for himself.  And while I agree that he can improve his game, I don't think his strengths are likely to translate to a winning formula. 

Even if he is surrounded by better offensive players than the ones he was surrounded by last year in Philly, I don't see that improving matters.  For example, say you give him an elite level on the ball perimeter player who can slash, create, score, I don't see how having someone like Jah Okafor next to him does anything but muck things up offensively.  He doesn't create space for others to work. 

If you choose to run the offense through Okafor and surround him with floor spacers, he hasn't proven to be much of a passer.  Personally, I don't trust him to be that guy on a contender.

It's certainly not as if he's a good enough defensive player to make up for the conundrums that he creates for a team offensively.

I think this is why Al Jefferson is such an apt comparison.  Big Al is the best low post player of his generation.  Yet, his teams have really struggled to win when he has been an offensive focal point.  Who knows, Jah may end up being an even better low post score than Jefferson, but I would worry that his ability to lead his teams to wins would amount to about the same.

[oldtype]

If the Sixers think 25+26 will get them a top 8 pick, that's cool. let's outbid them with 16+23.