Rumor: Celtics, among others, in contact with Sixers about Noel/Okafor

[RLewis35]

. . . but I'd rather acquire Okafor more than Butler. First, he'd be cheaper. Secondly, Okafor - if it all works out - could be a bigger upgrade over Sullinger than Butler would be over Bradley.

This is the key point right here.  We have the opportunity for a massive upgrade at a key position - center.  Sully is gone, and Amir only has another year left.  But Okafor will be under contract for a couple more years.  Assuming Ainge thinks his mentality is solid enough, then don't we trust CBS to teach him the fundamentals to become at least a decent defensive presence?  Who knows, maybe he can even develop a 3pt shot with enough practice.

What does it matter how big of an upgrade the new player x is to the old player y? We're not in a position where we just have to finetune the team a bit and compete for a championship, we should neither draft nor trade for need. Avery Bradley, a fine player, is a career role-player.

Jimmy Butler is an all-star, Okafor is a disappointment, that's all that should matter.

17.5 and 7 as a rookie on over 50 pct shooting at age 19/20 is a disappointment? Ok then.....

[wdleehi]

I would have the Celtics take either of them...



But I would not want a straight up swap the number 3 for them.



There is now NBA tape on them with NBA scouting.   It is no longer about the scouting report from college and what potential they may have as an NBA player. 


Both have shown flaws. 


I would expect the Celtics to get something else in return. 



(And I would much rather they move the pick or the player they are getting from the 76ers in a bigger trade for a bigger star)

[The Oracle]

Everyone who relies on advanced stats - in addition to that mistake - to hate on Okafor, makes another mistake. He's going to improve. He's 19.

Sorry to break it to you.

It isn't all about analytics.  Did you watch what was happening in the finals to Ezili?  The Cavs were pulling him out to the perimeter and targeting him.  G.S. was doing the same thing to Adams and Kanter in the O.K.C. series.  You force switches on the perimeter to get a slow big on a smaller quicker guy and shoot over him or beat him off the dribble.  It happened all season and is only going to escalate even more because guys like Okafor can't begin to defend this or even there own man when defending someone like Olynyk, Bender Or Porzingis.  Gasol and Randolph, Hibbert, Monroe, Big Al etc. are all going to struggle mightily if they are not allowed to stay near the paint, they simply do not have the foot speed to defend on the perimeter. 

There is just no way you can give up the quality scoring opportunities that slow bigs are going to give up in the foreseeable future and get enough offense out of a post scoring big centered offense to win games, let alone titles.  If the Celtics brass don't see this and make the mistake of trading for Okafor I will be shocked beyond belief.

[MetroGlobe]

But even if he does, he's Al Jefferson. And a 20 year old Al Jefferson isn't worth out best asset

The #3 in this draft is our best asset?  Really?  Come on, man.  That's preposterous.  Nobody can even agree on who the 3rd best player in this draft is.  Yet you're claiming this pick is a more valuable asset than our All-defensive 2 guard making 8 mill/year?  Or all-star IT making his pittance amount?  Or even Jae Crowder, who makes 7 million?

I think you're spending too much time reading Kevin's draft guide and you've allowed yourself to fall for these kids' "tremendous upside potential".

[chambers]

Okafor before acquisition of Ish for 29 games. 49.7 TS%, 0.99 ppp.

Okafor after acquisition of Ish for 24 games - 59.5 TS%, 1.14 ppp

---

Okafor WITH Ish in the line up, 60.1 TS% - 1.14 ppp.

Okafor WITH Ish AND Noel in the line up - 67.4 TS%, 1.28 ppp.

Okafor with Ish and Covington in the line up - 62.8 TS%, 1.20 ppp.

Okafor with Ish, Noel, and Covington in the line up - 71.8 TS%, 1.37 ppp.

Okafor - as a rookie - seemed to need NBA players (especially a PG) to actually perform well.

Just about every lineup Okafor was in with Ish he scored well, he did so even more prolifically with additional proven NBA talent such as Noel and Covington - as cited above. All 4 of them in the line up and he was basically unstoppable scoring (even if the lineup itself sucked).
His offensive metrics wouldn't have been so poor if not for the beginning of the season. How much better he was in the final 24 games after the acquisition of Ish Smith didn't supersede how horrendous he had been for the initial 29 games without Ish.

The front court rebounded better with Okafor, he rebounded better individually as well as who he was paired with in the front court, except with Noel. Noel however rebounded better individually with Okafor.

With only Okafor
Okafor 14.8 reb% (11.1 w/ Noel)
Grant 11.6
Covington 13.4

With only Noel
Noel 14.8 (15.8 w/ Okafor)
Grant 8.3
Covington 10.8

[wdleehi]

Everyone who relies on advanced stats - in addition to that mistake - to hate on Okafor, makes another mistake. He's going to improve. He's 19.

Sorry to break it to you.

It isn't all about analytics.  Did you watch what was happening in the finals to Ezili?  The Cavs were pulling him out to the perimeter and targeting him.  G.S. was doing the same thing to Adams and Kanter in the O.K.C. series.  You force switches on the perimeter to get a slow big on a smaller quicker guy and shoot over him or beat him off the dribble.  It happened all season and is only going to escalate even more because guys like Okafor can't begin to defend this or even there own man when defending someone like Olynyk, Bender Or Porzingis.  Gasol and Randolph, Hibbert, Monroe, Big Al etc. are all going to struggle mightily if they are not allowed to stay near the paint, they simply do not have the foot speed to defend on the perimeter. 

There is just no way you can give up the quality scoring opportunities that slow bigs are going to give up in the foreseeable future and get enough offense out of a post scoring big centered offense to win games, let alone titles.  If the Celtics brass don't see this and make the mistake of trading for Okafor I will be shocked beyond belief.

For the Thunder, the advantage was even greater going the other way in many cases.  Their big men could abuse defenders on the other end.


At some point, it has to be about talent over style. 

[celticinorlando]

Okafor is workable. Noel is not. Noel is a journeyman player with bad knees.

[__ramonezy__]

How about we offer:

• #3 pick
• Rozier
• Young

For:

• Noel/Okafor
• Stauskas
• 2017 1st Rd. Swap Pic with Kings

We get an Offensive/Defensive Anchor and also a young wing with shooting potential. They get their pick that can be used for Dunn, Rozier for good depth and Young who could still become something with minutes.

[colincb]

Everyone who relies on advanced stats - in addition to that mistake - to hate on Okafor, makes another mistake. He's going to improve. He's 19.

Sorry to break it to you.

Advanced stats are one of a vast array of resources people use to judge a player. Just cause you don't like them doesn't mean they're wrong. Most NBA franchises use them heavily.

Okafor will improve. I don't think anyone is saying he won't. But the truth about his skillset is that he HAS to be featured in the offense. You have to design the offense around him, because he's almost useless without the ball in his hands in the post. Then you have to try to hide his terrible defense on the other end.

He will improve. He's gonna be a good player. Al Jefferson was a good player. With some luck, he MAY turn out to be a slightly more improved version of big Al. Without it, he may never even get that good. Regardless, you don't win anything with Al Jefferson as one of your best players.

No ones "hating" on him, we just think he's not worth the 3rd pick. I'd probably give up the 16th pick for him.

You had me reaching into my bag of TPs until your last sentence. Okafor's offense will improve, but while Okafor's defense will improve too, it will still be brutal. So do you use a #3 on Al Jefferson 2.0 (who Okafor was compared to coming out)? Not I. Would easily pay more than a #16 though. Same with Noel who is a one-trick pony also. Sixers aren't interested in having more picks though as they have too many already.

The Sixers are clearly chasing this deal for the 3rd pick (Dunn). They need a PG and they have clearly been doing the deep background work you'd expect if a team was high on a player. However, the Cs want a deal for established talent.  Solution? A plausible3 team deal.

[Casperian]

. . . but I'd rather acquire Okafor more than Butler. First, he'd be cheaper. Secondly, Okafor - if it all works out - could be a bigger upgrade over Sullinger than Butler would be over Bradley.

This is the key point right here.  We have the opportunity for a massive upgrade at a key position - center.  Sully is gone, and Amir only has another year left.  But Okafor will be under contract for a couple more years.  Assuming Ainge thinks his mentality is solid enough, then don't we trust CBS to teach him the fundamentals to become at least a decent defensive presence?  Who knows, maybe he can even develop a 3pt shot with enough practice.

What does it matter how big of an upgrade the new player x is to the old player y? We're not in a position where we just have to finetune the team a bit and compete for a championship, we should neither draft nor trade for need. Avery Bradley, a fine player, is a career role-player.

Jimmy Butler is an all-star, Okafor is a disappointment, that's all that should matter.

17.5 and 7 as a rookie on over 50 pct shooting at age 19/20 is a disappointment? Ok then.....

I'm sorry, did I accidentally step into a time machine and got teleported back to the 80ies where this stuff still mattered?

“Put the best D-League team into the NBA, and someone is going to average 18 points per game, someone is gonna get 10 rebounds. And that’s why you hear the doubts you’re hearing.”

- Danny Ainge

People liked to make fun of Yi Jianlian, and how he posted up a chair. I think that was pretty unfair.

That chair could easily drop 20 on Okafor.

[loco_91]

. . . but I'd rather acquire Okafor more than Butler. First, he'd be cheaper. Secondly, Okafor - if it all works out - could be a bigger upgrade over Sullinger than Butler would be over Bradley.

This is the key point right here.  We have the opportunity for a massive upgrade at a key position - center.  Sully is gone, and Amir only has another year left.  But Okafor will be under contract for a couple more years.  Assuming Ainge thinks his mentality is solid enough, then don't we trust CBS to teach him the fundamentals to become at least a decent defensive presence?  Who knows, maybe he can even develop a 3pt shot with enough practice.

What does it matter how big of an upgrade the new player x is to the old player y? We're not in a position where we just have to finetune the team a bit and compete for a championship, we should neither draft nor trade for need. Avery Bradley, a fine player, is a career role-player.

Jimmy Butler is an all-star, Okafor is a disappointment, that's all that should matter.

17.5 and 7 as a rookie on over 50 pct shooting at age 19/20 is a disappointment? Ok then.....

I'm sorry, did I accidentally step into a time machine and got teleported back to the 80ies where this stuff still mattered?

“Put the best D-League team into the NBA, and someone is going to average 18 points per game, someone is gonna get 10 rebounds. And that’s why you hear the doubts you’re hearing.”

- Danny Ainge

People liked to make fun of Yi Jianlian, and how he posted up a chair. I think that was pretty unfair.

That chair could easily drop 20 on Okafor.

Lol, TP

[CoachBo]

Watch what that chair drops on Bender.

25.

Ainge has a responsibility to work the best deal he can for the pick, and it certainly needs to be more than Noel, and probably so for Okafor, too.

Doesn't change the absolutely ridiculous evaluations of Okafor's rookie year offered on this board. Between those and the hyperbole around the stick figure that is Bender, the laughs from this forum have been many.

[CelticSooner]

Who do you believe?

https://twitter.com/ryenarussillo/status/745227534984421376

https://twitter.com/ryenarussillo/status/745227769672511489

[jpotter33]

Who do you believe?

https://twitter.com/ryenarussillo/status/745227534984421376

https://twitter.com/ryenarussillo/status/745227769672511489

He loses credibility when he says that "sentiment around league is that Boston doesn't have anyone on roster that other GMs really want."

We also already know that Crowder was the sticking point in a Butler deal with Chicago at the deadline, so this guy is pretty full of it.

[CoachBo]

Everyone who relies on advanced stats - in addition to that mistake - to hate on Okafor, makes another mistake. He's going to improve. He's 19.

Sorry to break it to you.

It isn't all about analytics.  Did you watch what was happening in the finals to Ezili?  The Cavs were pulling him out to the perimeter and targeting him.  G.S. was doing the same thing to Adams and Kanter in the O.K.C. series.  You force switches on the perimeter to get a slow big on a smaller quicker guy and shoot over him or beat him off the dribble.  It happened all season and is only going to escalate even more because guys like Okafor can't begin to defend this or even there own man when defending someone like Olynyk, Bender Or Porzingis.  Gasol and Randolph, Hibbert, Monroe, Big Al etc. are all going to struggle mightily if they are not allowed to stay near the paint, they simply do not have the foot speed to defend on the perimeter. 

There is just no way you can give up the quality scoring opportunities that slow bigs are going to give up in the foreseeable future and get enough offense out of a post scoring big centered offense to win games, let alone titles.  If the Celtics brass don't see this and make the mistake of trading for Okafor I will be shocked beyond belief.

And here, dear reader, is a perfect example of the mistake I allude to.

Okafor hate on this board is ALWAYS linked to the notion that what you saw last year is all you possibly can get from him.

Nothing - nothing - could be further from the truth and any claim otherwise should not be taken seriously. It's nonsense.

There are reasons, and then there are excuses. You see the latter above.

Sad news for all the people who can't stand this kid: He is going to get better. All elements of his game will improve, from his body evolving out of his teen years to his offense, defense, rebounding, et al. Ainge was NOT wrong to inquire about him at the deadline.