The dude averaged 17 in his rookie year when being asked to completely carry a sad team on the offensive end.
The fact that he was being asked to "carry a sad team on the offensive end" is exactly the reason why his 17 PPG wasn't that impressive.
In Avery Bradley's first three seasons when he was playing behind Rajon/Ray/Paul/Kevin, he consistently averaged around 12 points Per 36.
Once Ray, Paul and Kevin all left, Bradley saw a significantly increased role - his scoring average jumped to around 16.5 Points Per 36 over the next three seasons due to his increased role in the offense. That's an increase of around 40% to his Per-36 scoring rate.
Over his first three seasons in OKC, while playing behind Durant and Westbrook, James Harden averaged around 17.1 Points Per 36. Over his next four seasons in Houston (where he was the #1 guy) his averaged jumped to around 26.9 Points Per 36. Why? Because he was the #3 banana in OKC and the clear #1 banana in Houston. A drop of around 57%.
Kevin Love averaged 25.9 Points Per 36 as the #1 man in his last season in Minnesota, and that dropped to 17.5 Points Per 36 when he became a #3 guy in Cleveland. A drop of around 48%.
Ray Allen averaged 23.6 Points Per 36 in his last season as the #1 guy in Seattle, and that dropped to 17.5 Points Per 36 when he became the #3 guy in Boston. A drop of around 35%.
Chris Bosh averaged 23.9 Points Per 36 in his last season as the #1 guy in Toronto, and that dropped to 18.5 Points Per 36 when he became the #3 guy in Miami. A drop of around 29%.
It's simple common sense - being the #1 guy on a bad team is gong to INFLATE your stats, not DEFLATE them. So Okafor's average of 17 PPG on one of the worst basketball teams in history (which had no other competent scorers) is not a grand achievement. Not saying it's a bad thing, but it's not exactly "wow" worthy either. If he were on the Suns or Wolves sharing the scoring load with Bledsoe/Knight or Wiggins, he probably would have been lucky to average 14 or 15 PPG.
Just basic basketball logic there.
Plus his defense is extremely underrated IMO. 1-1 he is at least serviceable
No, it's not and he isn't. He had the second worse defensive RPM in the entire NBA, with Enes Kanter (a guy infamous for being the worst defensive big in the NBA) being he only guy who ranked worse. His defensive rating was no better either. Ever advanced defensive statistic out there will tell you that he was an utterly atrocious defensive player - one of the worst defensive bigs in the entire league.
Al Jefferson, despite his reputation, was never CLOSE to being that bad on defense.
Oh and you can't blame the team's shoddiness for that stat either, because Nerlens Noel (who played on the exact same team) had one of the league's top defensive ratings. There is no way to sugarcoat that.
and gets rebounds at a decent rate.
No, he doesn't.
Okafor's total rebound rate of 12.8% is utterly woeful for an NBA center - even more so when you consider the sheer size and physical presence he has.
Brook Lopez has been known for being one of the worst rebounding centers in the NBA for years now, and he had a rebound rate of 15.8% his rookie year, and 13.1% for his career.
Kelly Olynyk (who is far from a great rebounder) had a rebound rate of 13.1% in his rookie year, and has a career rebound rate of 12.4% - Okafor has been rebounding about on par with KO, which is absolutely embarrassing for a 6'11", 270 pound monster who lives in the paint.
TP Crimson, I wish I could give you 10 TP's.
Adam Jones, read this again one more time for me, cause that about sums up exactly what I was gonna say.
Al Jefferson was a 20/10 guy. And he wasn't as much of a drag on your offense as Okafor is right now. But hey, Big Al was a good player. Would you trade the #3 pick in an average/above average draft for a 20 year old Al Jefferson though?
I wouldn't, we're aiming higher than that. You want more than Okafor if you do that deal, and I'm not sure how much else Philly has to give. Does Covington move the needle?
Me thinks someone cares a little too much about counting stats.
Stick Al Jefferson on this year's 76ers team and the results are far worse than Okafor. It's a trainwreck.
I just can't see how people can compare Okafor's numbers playing for literally the WORST team in NBA history as the single offensive option, with no shooters, and his only help defender being Noel (when they were on the floor together). He had zero help on the perimeter and opposing wings got into the paint at will vs OKafor, leaving him to come over and help or stay with his man and let the opponent score/get to the line.
The situations are just incomparable and considering that Jahlil was 19 years old, he's being completely disrespected.
Anyway, the fact is that Ainge would never, ever trade the #3 pick for Noel.
For Okafor he might, as long as other pieces were included, but this Noel for #3 stuff is hilarious.
I'm sorry to say it, but it's your analysis that makes no sense.
I've already stated here - you cannot blame the 76ers crappiness for Okafor's problems.
Why?
Because other guys have played for the the same crappy Philly teams and not had the same utterly horrible advanced stats.
You say there was no help, so Okafor got stuck having to defend everything - same is true for Noel, but he had a top 10 Defensive RPM among centers. If the Sixer's lack of help defense is truly to blame for Okafor's defensive problems, then why did Noel not have terrible defensive numbers too?
Answer: Because Noel isn't a horrible defensive player, and Okafor is.
Might Okafor's defensive numbers look a little less terrible if he were on a better defensive team? Maybe, maybe not. You can't say they would, because you haven't seen him on another team.
However we've seen Noel on the 2014/15 76ers (which IIRC was actually pretty solid defensively, just sucked offensively) and we've seen him on the 2015/16 76ers (which you state was so horrible defensively), and his Defensive RPM remained similarly impressive in both seasons. So I think don't believe there is any realistic / logical way you can blame the quality of the 76ers team for Okafor's poor defensive play.
Secondly, you then go ahead and blame the 76ers crapiness for Okafor's limited offensive game. I don't get how this works because if Okafor is as great an offensive player as you claim, and he was getting ALL the shots for Philly (as you suggest) then he should have had scoring numbers that were through the roof, because he should have been chucking up shots left right and center. He didn't through. He averaged 17 PPG - a solid number, but not a spectacular one given the circumstances.
You claim that being on such a bad team should bring his stats down, but Nerlens Noel (one of the worst offensive centers in the NBA) managed to average 11 PPG on 52% shooting for the Sixers last year.
Ish Smith averaged almost 15 PPG on that 76ers team, for crying out loud. His career high prior to 2014/15 season (when he first joined Philly) was
4.5 PPG!!! But the two seasons he played for Philly (14/15 and 15/16) he managed double figure scoring averages - 12 PPG and 14.7 PPG, respectively.
If Nerlens Noel and Ish Smith can average 11 PPG and 14.7 PPG playing for the 76ers, then what does that tell you? It tells you that ANYBODY who plays on that Philly team is going to have their scoring numbers exaggerated based purely on the number of extra touches they are getting...which they would never get on a better (i.e. ANY other) team.
If your logic was valid and playing for the 76ers made guys' stats look worse, then Ish Smith should have had one of the worst statistical seasons of his career - but instead he averaged a career high 16.3 Points Per 36 Minutes.
So once again, I fail to understand your logic of how being the #1 scoring option on a bad team (that has no other scorers) would do anything but
elevate your stats.
Happy to listen to reason if you can give me a compelling argument, but from where I'm standing (or at least, sitting) I do not see one.
Topic: Rumor: Celtics, among others, in contact with Sixers about Noel/Okafor (Read 58572 times)