Best 2016 draft options for Celtics (in the top 10)

[clevelandceltic]

I have to disagree with your assessment of Brown. I think his handle can get loose at times but its not shaky. He isnt Curry or Irving with the ball but thats ok. He knows how to get around guys and put guys on his hip.

His shot is ok. Its not something that he has had to develop til late last year. His mechanics are fine. Its a matter of practice which he has certainly done based on what his shot and FT looked like at the beginning of the year and what they look like now.

At this stage how many kids are good team defender? Very few. He has all the skills to do it and has great potential as an individual defender.

Yes he does have tunnel vision to score but really what does this team need, a guy who can score. A guy who can run the floor. A guy that can create for himself.

I dont see this as a 2 person draft. I think Brown and Bender would fit great with this team as someone else mentioned.

Jaylen Brown can play on this Celtics team.

He is probably the best slasher/finisher in the draft. He's also pretty gritty.

I get the concerns. He's not polished. Lacks a jumpshot. But he can play hard nosed D and give us a guy who can take it to the rim.

His shooting is OK. It can sharpen up

The issues also are shaky handles,  tunnel vision to score. Rather go through an adventure than make the easy pass/drop off.  Also not a good team defender

Maybe these things can be fixed. I don't know, risky if you ask me

[PhoSita]

If the Celts end up using that top pick instead of trading it, I've got a feeling whoever they take will be playing about 10-15 minutes a game for at least the first half of next season.

[Tr1boy]

Jaylen Brown can play on this Celtics team.

He is probably the best slasher/finisher in the draft. He's also pretty gritty.

I get the concerns. He's not polished. Lacks a jumpshot. But he can play hard nosed D and give us a guy who can take it to the rim.

His shooting is OK. It can sharpen up

The issues also are shaky handles,  tunnel vision to score. Rather go through an adventure than make the easy pass/drop off.  Also not a good team defender

Maybe these things can be fixed. I don't know, risky if you ask me

I haven't watched Brown enough to have any feel for him, but I watched part of a game recently and the commentators were raving about how much he has improved during the season.  Maybe they were blowing smoke, but it was a positive thing to hear.

I have seen a few and production for such a high level prospect is just OK. 15 pts, 16 pts. Playing a ton of min. He looks flustrered during crunch time moments when he is needed to take the bull by the horn

Brown reminds me Wiggins (good/bad) but is not as tall/long and doesn't have that unstoppable dribble ,stop and pop move

In college you can knife through your way to the basket repeadly especially if you have the physical tools brown has.  But good college teams will play him in a way he has to make his jumpers or execute the dribble stop and pop (guard dog the paint)

Not big on this kid at the moment

[clevelandceltic]

I have seen all but I think 3 of Cal's games this year. I have even seen one of the Australian games. When they say he has improved a great deal over the course of the year they arent blowing smoke.

When he first stated the season he really struggled shooting it. FTs were short. The threes were erratic. He would force the issue alot and turn the ball over. He would have the occasional break out game offensively but had to feel his way out. Oh and he fouled a ton.

His game started to change around the UVA game. At that point the forced drives were alot less. His FT form was alot more consistent and his 3pt shot while still not going in, the form was alot better.

Conference play has shown alot of consistency and improvement. The FTs are alot better. The forced drives are alot better alot they do happen on occasion. The individual D in much improved.

So no they arent blowing smoke when they say he has gotten much better over the course of the year.

I can provide much more detail if you want but here is what I like and dislike:

What I love:
1. He is a killer in the open court. Has a burst to go past virtually anyone that is on the floor in the open court.
2. He attacks the rim constantly. He will shoot it at times but knows when thats not going down he attacks the rim and can draw contact.
3. He has somewhat of that mid 90's game where he can turn his back and post up guys mid drive.
4. His 1st step is very quick. If you allow him to turn the corner forget about it.
5. He is starting to show leadership and a drive to win games. Since Wallace went out he have been the guy pushing to get them over the hump of games.

What I like:
1. I think he can be a very good two way player. He has the length and quickness to stay with guys.
2. Despite the lack of a consistent jumpshot he still finds ways to score.
3. Is a plus rebounder.
4. I think he works on his game by looking at the lack of forced drives into 3 guys and a more consistent form on his jumper.

What I dislike:
1. Doesnt always move without the ball to make himself a content threat. Some of this has to do with spacing issues at Cal.
2. While I dont care much about the lack of a 3pt shot, I wish he had that 15 - 18 ft shot down at the elbow or on pull ups. This is something that can be worked on.
3. Can get careless with the ball at times. Uses angles to get around guys more than the handle to get around guys.
4. Hasnt figured out how to change speeds yet.
5. Doesnt consistently set up teammates although again I think this could be easier with better spacing.

Jaylen Brown can play on this Celtics team.

He is probably the best slasher/finisher in the draft. He's also pretty gritty.

I get the concerns. He's not polished. Lacks a jumpshot. But he can play hard nosed D and give us a guy who can take it to the rim.

His shooting is OK. It can sharpen up

The issues also are shaky handles,  tunnel vision to score. Rather go through an adventure than make the easy pass/drop off.  Also not a good team defender

Maybe these things can be fixed. I don't know, risky if you ask me

I haven't watched Brown enough to have any feel for him, but I watched part of a game recently and the commentators were raving about how much he has improved during the season.  Maybe they were blowing smoke, but it was a positive thing to hear.

[Tr1boy]

Nice work triboy!

I respect your opinion because you hit on Mickey and thus far it looks like you are spot on.

Minor quibble - I think Bender and Brown would be good for the Celtics as well.

Thanks.  When I saw Mickey hold his own vs the Kentucky trees(near unbeatable with Towns/wcs/lyles)  I saw something on this kid. In addition he was having a consistent productive 1st half until he ran into some medical issues (iron deficiency - now managed)

No quibble, it's your opinion.  I just feel CBS wants out of the box if possible,  players  that can shoot and understands how to play team ball(passing, team D) . Ideal if both criterias are met

[clevelandceltic]

I havent seen him flustered at all when he needs to take over the game. As a matter of fact he has done exactly that since Wallace went done.

I have not seen a team yet that has stopped him from getting in the paint. Not UVA and not in conference play. Since Christmas. He has had 1 game with 0 fts, 1 with 3, 2 with 4, and all the rest of the games he had 6 or more.

This is his FT count over the last 13 games which is the start of the new year.
4, 0 ,6,8,9,8,11,10,11,12,3,7,10

Jaylen Brown can play on this Celtics team.

He is probably the best slasher/finisher in the draft. He's also pretty gritty.

I get the concerns. He's not polished. Lacks a jumpshot. But he can play hard nosed D and give us a guy who can take it to the rim.

His shooting is OK. It can sharpen up

The issues also are shaky handles,  tunnel vision to score. Rather go through an adventure than make the easy pass/drop off.  Also not a good team defender

Maybe these things can be fixed. I don't know, risky if you ask me

I haven't watched Brown enough to have any feel for him, but I watched part of a game recently and the commentators were raving about how much he has improved during the season.  Maybe they were blowing smoke, but it was a positive thing to hear.

I have seen a few and production for such a high level prospect is just OK. 15 pts, 16 pts. Playing a ton of min. He looks flustrered during crunch time moments when he is needed to take the bull by the horn

Brown reminds me Wiggins (good/bad) but is not as tall/long and doesn't have that unstoppable dribble ,stop and pop move

In college you can knife through your way to the basket repeadly especially if you have the physical tools brown has.  But good college teams will play him in a way he has to make his jumpers or execute the dribble stop and pop (guard dog the paint)

Not big on this kid at the moment

[hwangjini_1]

If the Celts end up using that top pick instead of trading it, I've got a feeling whoever they take will be playing about 10-15 minutes a game for at least the first half of next season.

and if they are not good enough to earn more, that's they way it should be.

[The One]

I have seen all but I think 3 of Cal's games this year. I have even seen one of the Australian games. When they say he has improved a great deal over the course of the year they arent blowing smoke.

When he first stated the season he really struggled shooting it. FTs were short. The threes were erratic. He would force the issue alot and turn the ball over. He would have the occasional break out game offensively but had to feel his way out. Oh and he fouled a ton.

His game started to change around the UVA game. At that point the forced drives were alot less. His FT form was alot more consistent and his 3pt shot while still not going in, the form was alot better.

Conference play has shown alot of consistency and improvement. The FTs are alot better. The forced drives are alot better alot they do happen on occasion. The individual D in much improved.

So no they arent blowing smoke when they say he has gotten much better over the course of the year.

I can provide much more detail if you want but here is what I like and dislike:

What I love:
1. He is a killer in the open court. Has a burst to go past virtually anyone that is on the floor in the open court.
2. He attacks the rim constantly. He will shoot it at times but knows when thats not going down he attacks the rim and can draw contact.
3. He has somewhat of that mid 90's game where he can turn his back and post up guys mid drive.
4. His 1st step is very quick. If you allow him to turn the corner forget about it.
5. He is starting to show leadership and a drive to win games. Since Wallace went out he have been the guy pushing to get them over the hump of games.

What I like:
1. I think he can be a very good two way player. He has the length and quickness to stay with guys.
2. Despite the lack of a consistent jumpshot he still finds ways to score.
3. Is a plus rebounder.
4. I think he works on his game by looking at the lack of forced drives into 3 guys and a more consistent form on his jumper.

What I dislike:
1. Doesnt always move without the ball to make himself a content threat. Some of this has to do with spacing issues at Cal.
2. While I dont care much about the lack of a 3pt shot, I wish he had that 15 - 18 ft shot down at the elbow or on pull ups. This is something that can be worked on.
3. Can get careless with the ball at times. Uses angles to get around guys more than the handle to get around guys.
4. Hasnt figured out how to change speeds yet.
5. Doesnt consistently set up teammates although again I think this could be easier with better spacing.

Jaylen Brown can play on this Celtics team.

He is probably the best slasher/finisher in the draft. He's also pretty gritty.

I get the concerns. He's not polished. Lacks a jumpshot. But he can play hard nosed D and give us a guy who can take it to the rim.

His shooting is OK. It can sharpen up

The issues also are shaky handles,  tunnel vision to score. Rather go through an adventure than make the easy pass/drop off.  Also not a good team defender

Maybe these things can be fixed. I don't know, risky if you ask me

I haven't watched Brown enough to have any feel for him, but I watched part of a game recently and the commentators were raving about how much he has improved during the season.  Maybe they were blowing smoke, but it was a positive thing to hear.

Wow...excellent information!

[KeepRondo]

If the Celts end up using that top pick instead of trading it, I've got a feeling whoever they take will be playing about 10-15 minutes a game for at least the first half of next season.

and if they are not good enough to earn more, that's they way it should be.

You guys are probably right. The rotation is pretty set. But guys like Simmons, Ingram and Dunn will probably end up getting 20-25 minutes by the end of year.

[clevelandceltic]

Im not sure where Dunn would fit into this mix. Would probably have to trade a few players to make sense  taking him.

If the Celts end up using that top pick instead of trading it, I've got a feeling whoever they take will be playing about 10-15 minutes a game for at least the first half of next season.

and if they are not good enough to earn more, that's they way it should be.

You guys are probably right. The rotation is pretty set. But guys like Simmons, Ingram and Dunn will probably end up getting 20-25 minutes by the end of year.

[Tr1boy]

Im not sure where Dunn would fit into this mix. Would probably have to trade a few players to make sense  taking him.

If the Celts end up using that top pick instead of trading it, I've got a feeling whoever they take will be playing about 10-15 minutes a game for at least the first half of next season.

and if they are not good enough to earn more, that's they way it should be.

You guys are probably right. The rotation is pretty set. But guys like Simmons, Ingram and Dunn will probably end up getting 20-25 minutes by the end of year.

If dunn is a top 6 prospect, heartstop, you should pick him like with the Marcus smart situation you can't skip this prospect

Jury out on randle and look at vonleh

[Tr1boy]

I feel Ellenson would be a good replacement for sully (if not brough back)

What a prospect. Captain material.

[loco_91]

1. Ben Simmons  - 6'10 SF/PF with pg level handles/passing skills.  Very good rebounder. High IQ.  Too unselfish.  Inconsistent shooter.  Unable/not confident to shoot 3's (3 attempts all year long. 1 for 3).  Has to keep improving shooting to take it to the next level
High end comparison - A bit of Lebron A bit of Magic 
Low end comparison - Lamar Odom

2. Brandon Ingram - 6'10 SF/PF with a very good shooting touch.  Fairly quick shooting mechanic and can shoot over people.  Capable handles for size and willing passer.  Very good 3 pt shooter that can shoot with a hand in face.   Good effort on both ends.  Rain thin.  Position less defensively at this time. Likely won't be able to guard sfs at the nba level (long strides, not quick laterally). Has to keep gaining strength/improve conditioning
High end comparison - Dirk Nowitzki with a touch of Jabari Parker
Low end comparison -  Channing Frye

3. Buddy Hield - 6'4 SG/PG with unlimited range.  Hair trigger shooter that can shoot the 3 anywhere from the court.  Can score anywhere from the court.   Underrated handles and passing skills.  Can play the point position. Chiselled body, explosive. Good rebounder for a guard.  Good effort on the defensive end.   Is a senior.  Is he for real or just bullying younger players??   
High end comparison - James Harden with a touch of C.J. McCollum
Low end comparison - Gerald Henderson

4. Henry Ellenson - 6'10 pf/c with inside/outside offensive skills and strong shot blocking capability on the defensive end.  Just pure energy, effort and hustle.  Nice hook shot that is hard to block.  Near auto 15-17 ft jump shot. Good handles and passing skills for size.  Wide shoulders/good standing reach , good timing makes him an above average shot blocker.   Good leadership qualities.  Could be a better rebounder.  Slow and lacks explosiveness.  Too wild sometimes.   Needs to keep improving conditioning, become a better rebounder, play with better control at times.
High end comparison -  Marc Gasol
Low end comparison - Big country

5. Kris Dunn - 6'3 pg with handles/explosiveness to get into the paint at will.  Has improved 3 point shooting.  Good finisher around the rim.  Some highlight reel dunks.  Good passer but not willing at times. A thief on the defensive end. High turnover numbers.  Not an efficient scorer at this time.  Needs to cut down turning over the ball. Needs to become a more willing passer.
High end comparison - Damian Lillard
Low end comparison -  Jeff Teague

6. Tim Luwawu - 6'7 sf/sg with high level potential.  Sure ball handler and good passing skills.  Improved jump shooter all the way out to the 3 pt line. Drive stop and pop.  Explosive with 7'2 wingspan. Highlight reel dunks.  Acrobatic finisher.  Indecisive.  Shot needs to keep improving.  Defensive awareness needs to improve. Only 195 pounds and needs to keep adding strength.
High end comparison - Paul George
low end comparison - Nicolas Batum


Not good options (no particular order)

1. Jaylen Brown - shaky handles.  Poor passer. Unwilling passer. mediocre bbiq. Poor "team player" on both ends 

2. Dragan Bender - Donatas Motiejunas at this time.  takes a long time to setup for a jump shot.  Lacks "power" in his game. Slender. Without a jumpshot again basically a Donatas Motiejunas at this time

3. Jamal Murray -  Deadly long range shooter. Good size for a SG.  Good strength. But lacks quickness/explosiveness. Will have issues on the defensive end

4. Jakob Poetl -  Tyler Zeller part 2.  so so rebounder for size.  so so jump shot

5. Diamond Stone - Speights . Like Speights lacks a consistent motor. 

6. SKAL LABISSIERE - Rail thin. Poor freshman performance. Hard to get a grasp as to what kind of NBA player he will become. Should stay back another year


Even though it would be amazing to get either Simmons or Ingram for the 2016 draft, any of the other 4 would be solid pickups for the Celts.  Hield is an absolute scoring monster right now. Some are saying he is a combination of McCollum and Harden. Harden but a more unselfish version.  That is a top level nba player.   Luwawu has untapped potential and the main thing from stopping him to reaching the next level right now is needing to add strength/improve conditioning. He has the frame to pack on more weight.   Ellenson is a widebody that plays with endless energy on the court. Has the skills/leadership qualities to be a good one.  Because we already have Rozier , Dunn is the least favourable out of the 6 for us to choose in my opinion. But his level of skill (and now 3 pt shooting touch) can't be overlooked.  You could just pick him and worry about the overcrowd at the pg spot later.

Highlight videos to check out (outside of simmons, ingram)

Hield

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uK4EwZfZ1s

Ellenson

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8RjerPqRr8

Dunn

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyqHiHlo0ho

Luwawu

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msd4OQimjDI

Interesting analysis. Some random thoughts.
-Lamar Odom had 77 career winshares. Not a bad "downside" comp!!! I'm super high on Simmons, so I'm not going to argue with it.
-Bender is the prototypical modern inside-outside two-way 7' PF. He's slender for a 5, but he can definitely guard a lot of 4/5's, and he can switch the PnR. Definitely a mystery box: is his jumper as good as advertised? But he sounds great on paper and I think you're crazy to take Buddy Hield over him unless he works out really poorly.
-The most worrying thing about Ingram is that he's shooting <70% on FT's. Is his jumpshot for real? He has super upside as his jumpshot is unblockable, but it all hinges on him being a legit great shooter. Nowhere near as much upside as a slasher as, say, Jaylen Brown. And it's not clear that he has the work ethic to really grow in that area, so if his true shooting ability is merely above average, he's a way less exciting prospect.
-I think your critisism of Brown is off the mark. He looks to me like a pretty good, willing passer. Just plays out of control at times, like most 19 year old freak athletes. His handle looks pretty good to me too. It's only in comparison to Simmons that he looks unskilled.
-I also like Ellenson and dislike Skal. Skal could drop out of the lottery in a normal year, although his theoretical upside will probably keep him around 10 in this year's thin draft. An interesting upside comp for Ellenson is Cousins.
-If we take Diamond Stone with the Nets pick I'll do unspeakable things.

[Evantime34]

I feel Ellenson would be a good replacement for sully (if not brough back)

What a prospect. Captain material.

He measured at 261 in 2012 at the USA basketball camp. He is now at 228. He's the anti Sullinger.

[KeepRondo]

I feel Ellenson would be a good replacement for sully (if not brough back)

What a prospect. Captain material.

He measured at 261 in 2012 at the USA basketball camp. He is now at 228. He's the anti Sullinger.

He is pretty slow and has no lift.