Rumor- C's dangling both 1st picks to move up

[GratefulCs]

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if we would have "tanked" alll of our players would have lesser value.

I think we the fans value them more than other GMs

that's definitely true to some extent, but people have said that in the past and we have been able to turn those chips into larger pieces

[LarBrd33]

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if we would have "tanked" alll of our players would have lesser value.

I think we the fans value them more than other GMs

that's definitely true to some extent, but people have said that in the past and we have been able to turn those chips into larger pieces

Still feel like that's overblown.  If you compare the trade value of the players on the HOrnets (who stumbled into the #9 pick after a flood of late season injuries) compared to the value of Boston's players (who got the luxury of spending 4 games as LeBron's toilet), I don't think our forgettable little playoff hiccup really did anything to dramatically impact the trade value of anyone.  Any intelligent GM will recognize that the Hornets and Celtics were even for 90% of the season and their talent is comparable.   There's also the wide acknowledgement around the league that our "overachieving" (if that's what you call making the playoffs with a sub .500 record) was the result of Brad Stevens.  Few will give credit to the players.  Most look at our entire lineup and see back-ups.  "Wow, it's a credit to Stevens that he got that talentless squad to win at all".

But I've said this numerous times... the biggest benefit of making the playoffs was keeping Brad Stevens engaged and keeping the players committed to his vision.  Throughout the history of this league, too much losing leads to players inevitably tuning out the coach.  And Stevens is still a prime candidate to jump ship back to the NCAA.  I like Stevens and see him as a key part of our future.  I was fine with making the playoffs if it gives him momentum.  We still need to find ways to put real talent on this team, though... or Brad will bail and our trip to the playoffs will have truly been pointless. 

[Evantime34]

if we would have "tanked" alll of our players would have lesser value..

I don't think we miss the playoffs with our current roster. If we missed the playoffs I think it would have been because Ainge didn't make the Thomas move.

[colincb]

So if we ended up missing the playoffs by a hair, we'd be in a lot better situation?

Our picks wouldn't have been much better (12 or 13), we would have known a lot less about what we have, and our players would have had less market value.

[PhoSita]

The eagerness of the Celtics to move up really demonstrates the lack of belief in the group of guys they have now to become much more than what they are now.  The Celts want to do anything necessary to get some high level young talent.

I'd say it's more that we already have "depth" in the sense of having a lot of decent young players.  We don't need more of that kind of depth, and with a boatload of picks coming up, it makes sense to consolidate as much as we possibly can.  But it's not like we wouldn't be doing the same thing if we already had multiple stud prospects.

Fair point.  I think it's definitely true that the team doesn't need another handful of decent prospects who might become quality role players one day ... but that's the best you can reasonably hope to find in the middle of the draft.


Still, I do think it says something about where Ainge thinks the team is at, despite the 40 wins and the playoff berth.  There's a lot of talk about the Celtics not having time to wait for prospects to develop and the rebuild being accelerated and fireworks possibly happening this summer ... but I think in Ainge's mind the team isn't necessarily much closer to where they want to be than they were this time last year. 

I've said this repeatedly over the last couple of months ... if Ainge needs to sell off some of the decent pieces on the roster and even take a step back in terms of present competitiveness in order to acquire a piece or two that might actually be noteworth someday, he'll do it.

[Boris Badenov]

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if we would have "tanked" alll of our players would have lesser value.

I think we the fans value them more than other GMs

It's entirely possible that both of the above statements are true.

[jambr380]

So if we ended up missing the playoffs by a hair, we'd be in a lot better situation?

Our picks wouldn't have been much better (12 or 13), we would have known a lot less about what we have, and our players would have had less market value.

I think this one is key with a guy like Crowder. He went from an unknown back-up role player to essentially the most effective player we had on the court. I am not saying he is a future all-star or anything, but he is exactly the kind-of guy every championship team needs.

Ask Lebron what he thinks about freakin' Matthew Dellavedova now compared to before the playoffs began.

[LarBrd33]

So if we ended up missing the playoffs by a hair, we'd be in a lot better situation?

Our picks wouldn't have been much better (12 or 13), we would have known a lot less about what we have, and our players would have had less market value.

Come on... on March 15th with a month left in the season, the Hornets were 29-35 and the Celtics were 29-36.   Hornets were ahead of us.

The last month of the season is traditionally extended garbage time for the entire league.  Teams out of the race give reps to youth.  Teams locked into the playoffs rest their stars.   It's traditionally NBA bizarro-land.

Boston, due to Brad Stevens, finished the season 40-42 (pick 16).    Hornets, due to injuries to Jefferson and MKG, finished the season 33-49 (pick 9). 

You really think that last month (and subsequent sweep by the Cavs) had a dramatic impact on anyone's trade value or our understanding of our players?  I don't. 

[hpantazo]

So if we ended up missing the playoffs by a hair, we'd be in a lot better situation?

Our picks wouldn't have been much better (12 or 13), we would have known a lot less about what we have, and our players would have had less market value.

Come on... on March 15th with a month left in the season, the Hornets were 29-35 and the Celtics were 29-36.   Hornets were ahead of us.

The last month of the season is traditionally extended garbage time for the entire league.  Teams out of the race give reps to youth.  Teams locked into the playoffs rest their stars.   It's traditionally NBA bizarro-land.

Boston, due to Brad Stevens, finished the season 40-42 (pick 16).    Hornets, due to injuries to Jefferson and MKG, finished the season 33-49 (pick 9). 

You really think that last month (and subsequent sweep by the Cavs) had a dramatic impact on anyone's trade value or our understanding of our players?  I don't.

On the trade value of players, no, except maybe for Sullinger who got a chance to show people that he was healthy and productive again. On the attractiveness of signing with Boston for free agents however, definitely. Let's be honest, if you are an all-star level free agent looking to join a team where you can win, be the man, and get paid, would you consider a team in the East that managed to still miss the playoffs in a weak conference with a healthy roster? Getting the 7th seed and showing people that this group of scrubs under CBS can almost hang with Cleveland however would be pretty convincing that this team just needs a player like you and they will contend for years to come.

[Boris Badenov]

I went to Detroit Bad Boys and offered James Young + 28 + 33 for 8. The counter-offers by Detroit fans I got were:

Young + 16 for 8
Sully + 16 for 8
Young + 16, 28 and 33 for 8 (they can dream:)
Crowder + 16 + future 2nd for 8

If that is what Detroit wants for the 8th pick (and the fans tend to overvalue) I am all aboard with this.

The Crowder one is not happening due to FA but the fans are somehow very high on him. The playoffs might have raised some value after all.

This is quite interesting, in that it help put an explicit value on our making the playoffs.

To start, if #16 + Young = #8 and we make that deal, we basically lost James Young by making the playoffs.

The question then is, was the collective value of all our remaining players increased by more than enough to offset that?

For example, suppose you take Crowder and IT - two guys whose value increased a lot by our run, IMO - and ask what they could fetch in return right now. Compare that to their "deadline value."

Could they get back something now that you could only have gotten by also including Young, if the trade was based on their "deadline value"?

If so, then making the playoffs was a good thing.

(One easier way to answer the question perhaps, is to ask whether anyone in Detroit would be proposing that Crowder + #16 for #8 deal if Crowder hadn't played so well, helping our playoff drive).

[PhoSita]

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if we would have "tanked" alll of our players would have lesser value.

I think we the fans value them more than other GMs

It's entirely possible that both of the above statements are true.

+1

I think there is value in having our players show they can thrive in roles that are conducive to winning games.  That's not always apparent when you look at players on losing teams.

How valuable is Jordan Clarkson?  Jordan Hill?  Zach Lavine? Wiggins? Shabazz Muhammad? Jusuf Nurkic?

It's hard to say, because while those guys had some nice games in the box score, their teams were terrible.

Meanwhile, Smart, Bradley, Crowder, Zeller, Olynyk, even Evan Turner -- all put their talents to use in a system that led to their team winning a lot more games than expected.


At the same time, I don't think any GM is fooled into thinking these guys might be more than what they are (at least right now).  They are all role players.  But they've shown they can help a team win.

[Ilikesports17]

So if we ended up missing the playoffs by a hair, we'd be in a lot better situation?

Our picks wouldn't have been much better (12 or 13), we would have known a lot less about what we have, and our players would have had less market value.

Come on... on March 15th with a month left in the season, the Hornets were 29-35 and the Celtics were 29-36.   Hornets were ahead of us.

The last month of the season is traditionally extended garbage time for the entire league.  Teams out of the race give reps to youth.  Teams locked into the playoffs rest their stars.   It's traditionally NBA bizarro-land.

Boston, due to Brad Stevens, finished the season 40-42 (pick 16).    Hornets, due to injuries to Jefferson and MKG, finished the season 33-49 (pick 9). 

You really think that last month (and subsequent sweep by the Cavs) had a dramatic impact on anyone's trade value or our understanding of our players?  I don't.

With the composition of Boston and Charlotte is very similar. Both are very young teams who will be able to painlessly return all impact players on their rosters.

As you said, Boston and Charlotte were in the same place before, as you put it "extended garbage time'.

During this Boston went on a huge run and Charlotte fell apart. Charlotte has 4x the top 10 talent as us and another top 10 pick on the way, but when people talk about rising young teams they dont mention Charlotte. they mention us.

As you said, we went on that run because of Brad and that is relevant. When the going got tough a lot of our players proved that they wont shy away from the moment. Charlotte on the other hand just quit.

We had injuries to IT, Sully, KO, and briefly AB but our team didnt quit and then come playoff time we faced a full strength cavs team and played them to 4 quasi competitive games.

back on March 15 I would have viewed charlotte as a team we should shoot for. Someone who if we could stay with for the rest of the season I would be happy. Instead we outplayed them. Now I would not trade positions with Charlotte.

Thus the last month was a success.

[hpantazo]

So if we ended up missing the playoffs by a hair, we'd be in a lot better situation?

Our picks wouldn't have been much better (12 or 13), we would have known a lot less about what we have, and our players would have had less market value.

Come on... on March 15th with a month left in the season, the Hornets were 29-35 and the Celtics were 29-36.   Hornets were ahead of us.

The last month of the season is traditionally extended garbage time for the entire league.  Teams out of the race give reps to youth.  Teams locked into the playoffs rest their stars.   It's traditionally NBA bizarro-land.

Boston, due to Brad Stevens, finished the season 40-42 (pick 16).    Hornets, due to injuries to Jefferson and MKG, finished the season 33-49 (pick 9). 

You really think that last month (and subsequent sweep by the Cavs) had a dramatic impact on anyone's trade value or our understanding of our players?  I don't.

With the composition of Boston and Charlotte is very similar. Both are very young teams who will be able to painlessly return all impact players on their rosters.

As you said, Boston and Charlotte were in the same place before, as you put it "extended garbage time'.

During this Boston went on a huge run and Charlotte fell apart. Charlotte has 4x the top 10 talent as us and another top 10 pick on the way, but when people talk about rising young teams they dont mention Charlotte. they mention us.

As you said, we went on that run because of Brad and that is relevant. When the going got tough a lot of our players proved that they wont shy away from the moment. Charlotte on the other hand just quit.

We had injuries to IT, Sully, KO, and briefly AB but our team didnt quit and then come playoff time we faced a full strength cavs team and played them to 4 quasi competitive games.

back on March 15 I would have viewed charlotte as a team we should shoot for. Someone who if we could stay with for the rest of the season I would be happy. Instead we outplayed them. Now I would not trade positions with Charlotte.

Thus the last month was a success.

Charlotte also wanted very much to make the playoffs, they just failed miserably. They were not out to tank, hence the signings of big Al and Stephenson.

[colincb]

There were 5 teams fighting for 2 playoff slots. BOS, BKN, MIA, IND, CHA, Apparently they all thought the playoffs were worth more than a late lottery pick.

We outplayed them all.

[hpantazo]

There were 5 teams fighting for 2 playoff slots. BOS, BKN, MIA, IND, CHA, Apparently they all thought the playoffs were worth more than a late lottery pick.

We outplayed them all.

Basically this in a nutshell. All of those teams fought hard for a playoff spot. If the Pacers or Heat were healthy they may have beaten us out, but its not like they didn't try to.