Rumor- C's dangling both 1st picks to move up

[BDeCosta26]

All of this pro tanking talk makes me sad. The only way that we would have continued to tank was not making the IT trade. Is the 16th pick and IT not better than the 9th pick? I feel the pro tankers out there would take 16th, IT and playoffs experience.

To be fair it was Thornton, future 1st, and moving from 16 to 11 for Thomas.  And if Boston trades up, which has been rumored, to say 12 by using 16 and 28, the trade looks even worse in that regard.

I like Thomas a lot.  He is Boston's best player, has a very reasonable contract, and I believe he should have been starting, but Boston potentially lost a lot to add him to a team that is no where near a contender and used actual assets to do it.

we lost  nothing. Marcus thornton is basically without value. The cleveland first will probably be 28. If IT4 was able to,  on his own, elevate us from pick 11 to 16 than he along with pick 16 is certainly worth more than pick 11 alone.

IT4 is our best ambassador right now. Because of him we were able to get into the playoffs and changed the team attitude. he made us a more attractive destination.

Look. Without IT4 we probably pick 11th. No one is excited about Brad or the Celtics and Jared Sullinger has no value at all. Id rather have IT4, 16, and all the excitement as opposed to 11, a late future first, and no excitement.

I'd probably trade IT and 16 right now for #11 and a future #1 -- but I understand why many wouldn't.  Thing is, the C's were something like 20-11 with IT on their roster.  The C's would have ended picking in the 7-10 range -- and possibly even lower.   Would you trade #16 and IT for #7 and a future pick?

Draft season is CRAZY. People get so enamored with the glowing reports about prospects that they really start over-valuing late lottery picks. It's not just fans, people in the league do it too. That's why I hope Dallas is a late lottery team next year, just imagine what we can do with picks at #6, 13 and wherever we land.

You would really trade IT AND 16 for 11 and a future (protected, I'm sure.) first? That's insane. Seriously, what are the chances whoever is picked at 11 turns out to be a better player than IT? Very slim. Thomas is a Jamal Crawford level 6th man who could easily be the 3rd most important player on a contender. Never mind that Thomas, who is quite popular with other players in the league, clearly loves Boston and really wants to do everything in his power to help build a winner here. Just based on basketball talent alone, that's much more likely to end up being a bad trade. Thank god Ainge wouldn't do that .

[P stoff]

Ding ding ding..we have winner... vjcsmoke is right. A bird in the hand usually beats the crap out of draft darlings. Why chase rainbows?  Draft one guy and trade a few picks and players for an established wing scoring option (and maybe a decent upside big). 

Add to success and keep building in areas of need with experienced players this year, and then take stock again next year.

[LooseCannon]

Actually, I believe the eagerness of the Celtics to move up is because the talent outside of the top 10 of an NBA draft is generally a lot worse.  It just makes sense to move up for a better quality player.  I don't see the correlation with lack of faith in current players and wanting to move up using both 1st rounders.

If Ainge is truly eager to move up, it is probably because he covets a player who he does not think will be available when the Celtics pick rather than moving up for the sake of moving up.  Given past draft day trades, it seems likely that combining the Celtics' two first-round picks shouldn't get them higher than 10th, so Ainge's target (if he has one) should be someone who isn't expected to go before then.

[truthhurts34]

So if we ended up missing the playoffs by a hair, we'd be in a lot better situation?

Our picks wouldn't have been much better (12 or 13), we would have known a lot less about what we have, and our players would have had less market value.

your last two points just don't seem very accurate to me.  Nothing happened in the sweep by Cleveland to alter Boston's view of its players nor to increase the market value of any players.  It isn't like we had a Lebron like performance from someone in the losing effort.  Everyone played pretty much like they have all year. 

And having the 12th or 13th pick could make a huge difference.  CNNSI has Willey Cauley-Stein going 12th and Myles Turner going 13th.  Both of those guys seem like potential difference making big men.

Except you know darn well stein is not going 12.

As for turner at 13, we traded the 16th pick a few years back combined with a 2nd for olynyk at 13.

This whole thing is being blown out of proportion. If we use the 28th to move up to that range so be it. I'm not losing any sleep over this meaningless debate. It's a borderline 2nd round pick, not to mention our own players upped their own trade value during our 24-12 record after the all star break.

[krumeto]

Having a better pick would be cool but I do not regret the second half of the season a bit.

It was highly entertaining to me. It felt right. It felt as the Celtics greats would have approved and understood it.

It was the Stark way. Littlefinger would have embraced the tank and have a top 10 pick, but I would not have liked him any better.

Then again, almost all Starks are dead...

[slamtheking]

I would think Danny's dangling more than just the 2 firsts to move up.  It'd be more of a surprise if he wasn't

[spikelovetheCelts]

So if we ended up missing the playoffs by a hair, we'd be in a lot better situation?

Our picks wouldn't have been much better (12 or 13), we would have known a lot less about what we have, and our players would have had less market value.

Come on... on March 15th with a month left in the season, the Hornets were 29-35 and the Celtics were 29-36.   Hornets were ahead of us.

The last month of the season is traditionally extended garbage time for the entire league.  Teams out of the race give reps to youth.  Teams locked into the playoffs rest their stars.   It's traditionally NBA bizarro-land.

Boston, due to Brad Stevens, finished the season 40-42 (pick 16).    Hornets, due to injuries to Jefferson and MKG, finished the season 33-49 (pick 9). 

You really think that last month (and subsequent sweep by the Cavs) had a dramatic impact on anyone's trade value or our understanding of our players?  I don't.

Crowder increased his and so did AB with showing there D. We hang tough and people saw a committed team. I know if all being equal say with a player picking the Hornets or the Celtics. They will pick us we win.

[TheTruthFot18]

Realistically, what is the trade value of #16 & 28 combined?   A handful of draft slots?

#16 and #19 plus a second rounder and taking on an unwanted contract was what it took to move up to #11 last year, so significantly less than that, I'd imagine.

Of course, the perceived depth of the two drafts might alter the worth of their respective picks.

#16, #28, and KO/Sully to DET for
#8 and taking Carter or Gray off their hands. ?

[TheTruthFot18]

I went to Detroit Bad Boys and offered James Young + 28 + 33 for 8. The counter-offers by Detroit fans I got were:

Young + 16 for 8
Sully + 16 for 8
Young + 16, 28 and 33 for 8 (they can dream:)
Crowder + 16 + future 2nd for 8

If that is what Detroit wants for the 8th pick (and the fans tend to overvalue) I am all aboard with this.

The Crowder one is not happening due to FA but the fans are somehow very high on him. The playoffs might have raised some value after all.

Hope DA sees this post.

[loco_91]

I went to Detroit Bad Boys and offered James Young + 28 + 33 for 8. The counter-offers by Detroit fans I got were:

Young + 16 for 8
Sully + 16 for 8
Young + 16, 28 and 33 for 8 (they can dream:)
Crowder + 16 + future 2nd for 8

If that is what Detroit wants for the 8th pick (and the fans tend to overvalue) I am all aboard with this.

The Crowder one is not happening due to FA but the fans are somehow very high on him. The playoffs might have raised some value after all.

Hope DA sees this post.

Either of the bolded trades would be a steal by DA. Can't decide which I'd prefer-- not very high on either Sully or Young

[ssspence]

Realistically, what is the trade value of #16 & 28 combined?   A handful of draft slots?

My version of this question is more like:

Is the trade value of #16, #28 and either Avery Bradley or Kelly Olynyk enough to net Ainge the Kings pick?

[Donoghus]

Realistically, what is the trade value of #16 & 28 combined?   A handful of draft slots?

My version of this question is more like:

Is the trade value of #16, #28 and either Avery Bradley or Kelly Olynyk enough to net Ainge the Kings pick?

Which is much more along the lines of a trade proposal I wouldn't mind seeing.   Consolidate some of these so-called "assets".

[ssspence]

Realistically, what is the trade value of #16 & 28 combined?   A handful of draft slots?

My version of this question is more like:

Is the trade value of #16, #28 and either Avery Bradley or Kelly Olynyk enough to net Ainge the Kings pick?

Which is much more along the lines of a trade proposal I wouldn't mind seeing.   Consolidate some of these so-called "assets".

agreed. this is presumably exactly what Ainge is trying to do. you have to think he's leading with Bradley, KO and Sully, with Tier 2 (guys he'd like to part with less) of Zeller, Young and Thomas also potentially in the mix, if necessary depending on the deal opportunity.

[slamtheking]

I went to Detroit Bad Boys and offered James Young + 28 + 33 for 8. The counter-offers by Detroit fans I got were:

Young + 16 for 8
Sully + 16 for 8
Young + 16, 28 and 33 for 8 (they can dream:)
Crowder + 16 + future 2nd for 8

If that is what Detroit wants for the 8th pick (and the fans tend to overvalue) I am all aboard with this.

The Crowder one is not happening due to FA but the fans are somehow very high on him. The playoffs might have raised some value after all.

Hope DA sees this post.

Either of the bolded trades would be a steal by DA. Can't decide which I'd prefer-- not very high on either Sully or Young

Sully has more value as a proven player than Young.

I'd do the first deal no question because whoever's at 8 would be a better prospect than Young.

The Sully deal I'd have to think about because that leaves us with KO as our starting PF and that's not an ideal situation (unless Aldridge has secretly decided to sign here as a FA).  would have to have WCS available with that pick or else I'd probably pass on it.  I like Johnson but probably not enough to give up Sully and 16.

[Donoghus]

I went to Detroit Bad Boys and offered James Young + 28 + 33 for 8. The counter-offers by Detroit fans I got were:

Young + 16 for 8
Sully + 16 for 8
Young + 16, 28 and 33 for 8 (they can dream:)
Crowder + 16 + future 2nd for 8

If that is what Detroit wants for the 8th pick (and the fans tend to overvalue) I am all aboard with this.

The Crowder one is not happening due to FA but the fans are somehow very high on him. The playoffs might have raised some value after all.

Hope DA sees this post.

Either of the bolded trades would be a steal by DA. Can't decide which I'd prefer-- not very high on either Sully or Young

Sully has more value as a proven player than Young.

I'd do the first deal no question because whoever's at 8 would be a better prospect than Young.

The Sully deal I'd have to think about because that leaves us with KO as our starting PF and that's not an ideal situation (unless Aldridge has secretly decided to sign here as a FA).  would have to have WCS available with that pick or else I'd probably pass on it.  I like Johnson but probably not enough to give up Sully and 16.

Young has inherited the overvalued Gerald Green "Mr. Potential" type on these boards.

He may certainly pan out but his value on here greatly exceeds what is the reality.