Rumor- C's dangling both 1st picks to move up

[Neurotic Guy]

All of this pro tanking talk makes me sad. The only way that we would have continued to tank was not making the IT trade. Is the 16th pick and IT not better than the 9th pick? I feel the pro tankers out there would take 16th, IT and playoffs experience.

To be fair it was Thornton, future 1st, and moving from 16 to 11 for Thomas.  And if Boston trades up, which has been rumored, to say 12 by using 16 and 28, the trade looks even worse in that regard.

I like Thomas a lot.  He is Boston's best player, has a very reasonable contract, and I believe he should have been starting, but Boston potentially lost a lot to add him to a team that is no where near a contender and used actual assets to do it.

we lost  nothing. Marcus thornton is basically without value. The cleveland first will probably be 28. If IT4 was able to,  on his own, elevate us from pick 11 to 16 than he along with pick 16 is certainly worth more than pick 11 alone.

IT4 is our best ambassador right now. Because of him we were able to get into the playoffs and changed the team attitude. he made us a more attractive destination.

Look. Without IT4 we probably pick 11th. No one is excited about Brad or the Celtics and Jared Sullinger has no value at all. Id rather have IT4, 16, and all the excitement as opposed to 11, a late future first, and no excitement.

I'd probably trade IT and 16 right now for #11 and a future #1 -- but I understand why many wouldn't.  Thing is, the C's were something like 20-11 with IT on their roster.  The C's would have ended picking in the 7-10 range -- and possibly even lower.   Would you trade #16 and IT for #7 and a future pick?

[LarBrd33]

So if we ended up missing the playoffs by a hair, we'd be in a lot better situation?

Our picks wouldn't have been much better (12 or 13), we would have known a lot less about what we have, and our players would have had less market value.

Come on... on March 15th with a month left in the season, the Hornets were 29-35 and the Celtics were 29-36.   Hornets were ahead of us.

The last month of the season is traditionally extended garbage time for the entire league.  Teams out of the race give reps to youth.  Teams locked into the playoffs rest their stars.   It's traditionally NBA bizarro-land.

Boston, due to Brad Stevens, finished the season 40-42 (pick 16).    Hornets, due to injuries to Jefferson and MKG, finished the season 33-49 (pick 9). 

You really think that last month (and subsequent sweep by the Cavs) had a dramatic impact on anyone's trade value or our understanding of our players?  I don't.

With the composition of Boston and Charlotte is very similar. Both are very young teams who will be able to painlessly return all impact players on their rosters.

As you said, Boston and Charlotte were in the same place before, as you put it "extended garbage time'.

During this Boston went on a huge run and Charlotte fell apart. Charlotte has 4x the top 10 talent as us and another top 10 pick on the way, but when people talk about rising young teams they dont mention Charlotte. they mention us.

As you said, we went on that run because of Brad and that is relevant. When the going got tough a lot of our players proved that they wont shy away from the moment. Charlotte on the other hand just quit.

We had injuries to IT, Sully, KO, and briefly AB but our team didnt quit and then come playoff time we faced a full strength cavs team and played them to 4 quasi competitive games.

back on March 15 I would have viewed charlotte as a team we should shoot for. Someone who if we could stay with for the rest of the season I would be happy. Instead we outplayed them. Now I would not trade positions with Charlotte.

Thus the last month was a success.

Charlotte also wanted very much to make the playoffs, they just failed miserably. They were not out to tank, hence the signings of big Al and Stephenson.

... and had Charlottes two best players not been injured down the stretch... and had Cleveland not let Boston win two games over the final week... and had Charlotte snuck into the playoffs while Boston missed out, would you have felt dramatically different about the talent on the Boston roster?  I wouldn't.

I still feel like we're overstating how much that little run impacted the trade value of our players.  I agree it put attention on Brad (a good thing) and hopefully helps convince free agents to come here... but it's not like someone is or isn't trading for Avery Bradley, Tyler Zeller or Evan Turner based on what happened over the final month.

Also on another thread you were saying the Hornets are better of with Biyombo as opposed to big Al

Stats suggest they were better defensively with Biyombo and they happened to have their best stretch of the season with him starting.  But clearly nobody is claiming Biyombo is better than Al Jefferson.  Jefferson lead the Hornets to the playoffs the season prior.  He's their all-star leader.  He's the best scorer on the team.    The team had a 6-24 record in games MKG didn't play.  HIs impact on the team was significant.   Take both Big Al and MKG off the roster, you got a problem... Hence why the Hornets struggled in the final month.

Meanwhile, Boston played admirably and finished the season strong.   

I don't believe that the last month of the season had significant impact on anyone's trade value.  THe rest of the league isn't braindead.  They know why the HOrnets fella apart (injuries).  THey know why the Celtics overachieved (Stevens).  Nobody is going to wildly overpay for Avery Bradley in a trade simply because the Celtics won some games in April.   I'm doubtful our late push had much impact on player trade value at all. 

[Ilikesports17]

So if we ended up missing the playoffs by a hair, we'd be in a lot better situation?

Our picks wouldn't have been much better (12 or 13), we would have known a lot less about what we have, and our players would have had less market value.

Come on... on March 15th with a month left in the season, the Hornets were 29-35 and the Celtics were 29-36.   Hornets were ahead of us.

The last month of the season is traditionally extended garbage time for the entire league.  Teams out of the race give reps to youth.  Teams locked into the playoffs rest their stars.   It's traditionally NBA bizarro-land.

Boston, due to Brad Stevens, finished the season 40-42 (pick 16).    Hornets, due to injuries to Jefferson and MKG, finished the season 33-49 (pick 9). 

You really think that last month (and subsequent sweep by the Cavs) had a dramatic impact on anyone's trade value or our understanding of our players?  I don't.

With the composition of Boston and Charlotte is very similar. Both are very young teams who will be able to painlessly return all impact players on their rosters.

As you said, Boston and Charlotte were in the same place before, as you put it "extended garbage time'.

During this Boston went on a huge run and Charlotte fell apart. Charlotte has 4x the top 10 talent as us and another top 10 pick on the way, but when people talk about rising young teams they dont mention Charlotte. they mention us.

As you said, we went on that run because of Brad and that is relevant. When the going got tough a lot of our players proved that they wont shy away from the moment. Charlotte on the other hand just quit.

We had injuries to IT, Sully, KO, and briefly AB but our team didnt quit and then come playoff time we faced a full strength cavs team and played them to 4 quasi competitive games.

back on March 15 I would have viewed charlotte as a team we should shoot for. Someone who if we could stay with for the rest of the season I would be happy. Instead we outplayed them. Now I would not trade positions with Charlotte.

Thus the last month was a success.

Charlotte also wanted very much to make the playoffs, they just failed miserably. They were not out to tank, hence the signings of big Al and Stephenson.

... and had Charlottes two best players not been injured down the stretch... and had Cleveland not let Boston win two games over the final week... and had Charlotte snuck into the playoffs while Boston missed out, would you have felt dramatically different about the talent on the Boston roster?  I wouldn't.

I still feel like we're overstating how much that little run impacted the trade value of our players.  I agree it put attention on Brad (a good thing) and hopefully helps convince free agents to come here... but it's not like someone is or isn't trading for Avery Bradley, Tyler Zeller or Evan Turner based on what happened over the final month.

Also on another thread you were saying the Hornets are better of with Biyombo as opposed to big Al

Stats suggest they were better defensively with Biyombo and they happened to have their best stretch of the season with him starting.  But clearly nobody is claiming Biyombo is better than Al Jefferson.  Jefferson lead the Hornets to the playoffs the season prior.  He's their all-star leader.  He's the best scorer on the team.    The team had a 6-24 record in games MKG didn't play.  HIs impact on the team was significant.   Take both Big Al and MKG off the roster, you got a problem... Hence why the Hornets struggled in the final month.

Meanwhile, Boston played admirably and finished the season strong.   

I don't believe that the last month of the season had significant impact on anyone's trade value.  THe rest of the league isn't braindead.  They know why the HOrnets fella apart (injuries).  THey know why the Celtics overachieved (Stevens).  Nobody is going to wildly overpay for Avery Bradley in a trade simply because the Celtics won some games in April.   I'm doubtful our late push had much impact on player trade value at all.

Basically.

I think the difference between us faltering at the end and picking 10th or so and us making the charge we did is small and prior to the charge I thought faltering and picking 9th would be better
 

[colincb]

So if we ended up missing the playoffs by a hair, we'd be in a lot better situation?

Our picks wouldn't have been much better (12 or 13), we would have known a lot less about what we have, and our players would have had less market value.

Come on... on March 15th with a month left in the season, the Hornets were 29-35 and the Celtics were 29-36.   Hornets were ahead of us.

The last month of the season is traditionally extended garbage time for the entire league.  Teams out of the race give reps to youth.  Teams locked into the playoffs rest their stars.   It's traditionally NBA bizarro-land.

Boston, due to Brad Stevens, finished the season 40-42 (pick 16).    Hornets, due to injuries to Jefferson and MKG, finished the season 33-49 (pick 9). 

You really think that last month (and subsequent sweep by the Cavs) had a dramatic impact on anyone's trade value or our understanding of our players?  I don't.

With the composition of Boston and Charlotte is very similar. Both are very young teams who will be able to painlessly return all impact players on their rosters.

As you said, Boston and Charlotte were in the same place before, as you put it "extended garbage time'.

During this Boston went on a huge run and Charlotte fell apart. Charlotte has 4x the top 10 talent as us and another top 10 pick on the way, but when people talk about rising young teams they dont mention Charlotte. they mention us.

As you said, we went on that run because of Brad and that is relevant. When the going got tough a lot of our players proved that they wont shy away from the moment. Charlotte on the other hand just quit.

We had injuries to IT, Sully, KO, and briefly AB but our team didnt quit and then come playoff time we faced a full strength cavs team and played them to 4 quasi competitive games.

back on March 15 I would have viewed charlotte as a team we should shoot for. Someone who if we could stay with for the rest of the season I would be happy. Instead we outplayed them. Now I would not trade positions with Charlotte.

Thus the last month was a success.

Charlotte also wanted very much to make the playoffs, they just failed miserably. They were not out to tank, hence the signings of big Al and Stephenson.

... and had Charlottes two best players not been injured down the stretch... and had Cleveland not let Boston win two games over the final week... and had Charlotte snuck into the playoffs while Boston missed out, would you have felt dramatically different about the talent on the Boston roster?  I wouldn't.

I still feel like we're overstating how much that little run impacted the trade value of our players.  I agree it put attention on Brad (a good thing) and hopefully helps convince free agents to come here... but it's not like someone is or isn't trading for Avery Bradley, Tyler Zeller or Evan Turner based on what happened over the final month.

Also on another thread you were saying the Hornets are better of with Biyombo as opposed to big Al

Stats suggest they were better defensively with Biyombo and they happened to have their best stretch of the season with him starting.  But clearly nobody is claiming Biyombo is better than Al Jefferson.  Jefferson lead the Hornets to the playoffs the season prior.  He's their all-star leader.  He's the best scorer on the team.    The team had a 6-24 record in games MKG didn't play.  HIs impact on the team was significant.   Take both Big Al and MKG off the roster, you got a problem... Hence why the Hornets struggled in the final month.

Meanwhile, Boston played admirably and finished the season strong.   

I don't believe that the last month of the season had significant impact on anyone's trade value.  THe rest of the league isn't braindead.  They know why the HOrnets fella apart (injuries).  THey know why the Celtics overachieved (Stevens). Nobody is going to wildly overpay for Avery Bradley in a trade simply because the Celtics won some games in April.   I'm doubtful our late push had much impact on player trade value at all.

Wrong on both.

If CHA had played as well as after the ASG as before the ASG they would have ended 5 games behind BOS instead of 7. It had nothing to do with CHA collapsing down the stretch. It had everything to do with the Cs tying for the most wins in the East after the IT trade.

The Cs played at a 65% winning pace post-IT trade and a 39% pace before. Maybe BCS got a lot better after the trade, but a better explanation is that the on-floor Cs did.

[cometboy]

At some point folks will come to the realization that our biggest asset demands we show significant progress:

Brad Stevens

If we wanted to become Philly, we shouldn't have hired one of the best college coaches. He didn't come here to tank and won't be here for long if we regress.

Would you rather have a lottery pick this year or CBS? Which is more valuable to the long term progress of this team?

Danny has collected many tradable assets (mostly picks), 12 over the next two years. I guarantee he doesn't plan to start another team in Marblehead. Most of these pick are there to be traded en masse, either up into the lottery or for better players.

Expect it, embrace it.

CB

[crimson_stallion]

If this is true, it really just fuels the fire of people who didn't want to make the playoffs.  And now, I honestly am starting to agree.  And this is coming from someone who wanted to make the playoffs. 

But if you look now, the Celtics made the playoffs only to get swept (and in my opinion, there's nothing worse than being a playoff team that gets swept in the 1st round) and it cost them at least 6 spots in the draft this year.  Now Ainge has to give up more assets than he wanted in order to get into the top 10 for a draft that many teams feel is loaded.

You look at it now in hindsight, my mind has been changed.  I really wish we didn't make the playoffs.

There is something very much worse than getting swept in the first rounding - getting the 9th seed.

Making the playoffs is very valuable for Boston - it significantly increased their appeal to free agents looking for somewhere to sign. 

If you're a free agent star who wants to go somewhere you feel you can win for years to come...there's a very big difference between the thought "If I come here I could make this a playoff team" and "If I come here I could make this a contender". 

That's the difference in thought process between finishing as a #9 or #10 seed, versus finishing a #8 or #7 seed.  For potential free agents, it's a big difference.  Guys LMA don't want to come to Lottery teams in the hope that adding their talent could make that team a playoff team.  They want to go to a team that's ALREADY a playoff team, in the hope that they can improve that team to be a GOOD playoff team...or even better, a legit contender.

There's a very big difference in perception between a team that got a #7 seed and a team that got a #10 seed.  Nobody wants to go to bad teams unless it's a huge market team like the Knicks or Lakers. That's why teams like Sacramento continuously suck - nobody wants to go to a  team who just misses the playoffs every year.

Also regarding the draft being loaded, a lot of people said the same about last year's draft...and now that the season is over you could easily argue that it was one of the worst drafts of the past 20 years.  Probably bottom 5 at least.  How many guys in this draft even averaged double figure scoring?  Maybe 3 or 4?

I'd much rather let our young guys get some playoff experience under their belt - a chance to see what it's like playing the same opponent four games in a row.  A chance to see what it's like dealing with the extra pressure, the extra publicity, everything that goes with it.  If this team makes the playoffs next year, every one of those guys is going to feel that little bit more comfortable on the big stage because they've been there before.

[Surferdad]

If this is true, it really just fuels the fire of people who didn't want to make the playoffs.  And now, I honestly am starting to agree.  And this is coming from someone who wanted to make the playoffs. 

But if you look now, the Celtics made the playoffs only to get swept (and in my opinion, there's nothing worse than being a playoff team that gets swept in the 1st round) and it cost them at least 6 spots in the draft this year.  Now Ainge has to give up more assets than he wanted in order to get into the top 10 for a draft that many teams feel is loaded.

You look at it now in hindsight, my mind has been changed.  I really wish we didn't make the playoffs.

There is something very much worse than getting swept in the first rounding - getting the 9th seed.


That's the difference in thought process between finishing as a #9 or #10 seed, versus finishing a #8 or #7 seed.  For potential free agents, it's a big difference.  Guys LMA don't want to come to Lottery teams in the hope that adding their talent could make that team a playoff team.  They want to go to a team that's ALREADY a playoff team, in the hope that they can improve that team to be a GOOD playoff team...or even better, a legit contender.

There's a very big difference in perception between a team that got a #7 seed and a team that got a #10 seed.  Nobody wants to go to bad teams unless it's a huge market team like the Knicks or Lakers. That's why teams like Sacramento continuously suck - nobody wants to go to a  team who just misses the playoffs every year.

Also regarding the draft being loaded, a lot of people said the same about last year's draft...and now that the season is over you could easily argue that it was one of the worst drafts of the past 20 years.  Probably bottom 5 at least.  How many guys in this draft even averaged double figure scoring?  Maybe 3 or 4?

I'd much rather let our young guys get some playoff experience under their belt - a chance to see what it's like playing the same opponent four games in a row.  A chance to see what it's like dealing with the extra pressure, the extra publicity, everything that goes with it.  If this team makes the playoffs next year, every one of those guys is going to feel that little bit more comfortable on the big stage because they've been there before.

Come on. Free agents are not so dumb to think of the Celtics as "a playoff team, could be a contender with me added to the mix". They had a losing record and they didn't win one playoff game. I doubt FA's are intrigued to join the Celtics without any other stars there, no less.

[Smitty77]

If this is true, it really just fuels the fire of people who didn't want to make the playoffs.  And now, I honestly am starting to agree.  And this is coming from someone who wanted to make the playoffs. 

But if you look now, the Celtics made the playoffs only to get swept (and in my opinion, there's nothing worse than being a playoff team that gets swept in the 1st round) and it cost them at least 6 spots in the draft this year.  Now Ainge has to give up more assets than he wanted in order to get into the top 10 for a draft that many teams feel is loaded.

You look at it now in hindsight, my mind has been changed.  I really wish we didn't make the playoffs.

There is something very much worse than getting swept in the first rounding - getting the 9th seed.

Making the playoffs is very valuable for Boston - it significantly increased their appeal to free agents looking for somewhere to sign. 

If you're a free agent star who wants to go somewhere you feel you can win for years to come...there's a very big difference between the thought "If I come here I could make this a playoff team" and "If I come here I could make this a contender". 

That's the difference in thought process between finishing as a #9 or #10 seed, versus finishing a #8 or #7 seed.  For potential free agents, it's a big difference.  Guys LMA don't want to come to Lottery teams in the hope that adding their talent could make that team a playoff team.  They want to go to a team that's ALREADY a playoff team, in the hope that they can improve that team to be a GOOD playoff team...or even better, a legit contender.

There's a very big difference in perception between a team that got a #7 seed and a team that got a #10 seed.  Nobody wants to go to bad teams unless it's a huge market team like the Knicks or Lakers. That's why teams like Sacramento continuously suck - nobody wants to go to a  team who just misses the playoffs every year.

Also regarding the draft being loaded, a lot of people said the same about last year's draft...and now that the season is over you could easily argue that it was one of the worst drafts of the past 20 years.  Probably bottom 5 at least.  How many guys in this draft even averaged double figure scoring?  Maybe 3 or 4?

I'd much rather let our young guys get some playoff experience under their belt - a chance to see what it's like playing the same opponent four games in a row.  A chance to see what it's like dealing with the extra pressure, the extra publicity, everything that goes with it.  If this team makes the playoffs next year, every one of those guys is going to feel that little bit more comfortable on the big stage because they've been there before.

Come on. Free agents are not so dumb to think of the Celtics as "a playoff team, could be a contender with me added to the mix". They had a losing record and they didn't win one playoff game. I doubt FA's are intrigued to join the Celtics without any other stars there, no less.

Let me follow your logic.  The Hawks won 60 games but also got swept and lost by a LARGER AVERAGE MARGIN to the Cavs than we did!!  Surely, free agents are NOT SO DUMB to think of the Hawks as a playoff team!!:-)))))

Smitty77

[Surferdad]

If this is true, it really just fuels the fire of people who didn't want to make the playoffs.  And now, I honestly am starting to agree.  And this is coming from someone who wanted to make the playoffs. 

But if you look now, the Celtics made the playoffs only to get swept (and in my opinion, there's nothing worse than being a playoff team that gets swept in the 1st round) and it cost them at least 6 spots in the draft this year.  Now Ainge has to give up more assets than he wanted in order to get into the top 10 for a draft that many teams feel is loaded.

You look at it now in hindsight, my mind has been changed.  I really wish we didn't make the playoffs.

There is something very much worse than getting swept in the first rounding - getting the 9th seed.

Making the playoffs is very valuable for Boston - it significantly increased their appeal to free agents looking for somewhere to sign. 

If you're a free agent star who wants to go somewhere you feel you can win for years to come...there's a very big difference between the thought "If I come here I could make this a playoff team" and "If I come here I could make this a contender". 

That's the difference in thought process between finishing as a #9 or #10 seed, versus finishing a #8 or #7 seed.  For potential free agents, it's a big difference.  Guys LMA don't want to come to Lottery teams in the hope that adding their talent could make that team a playoff team.  They want to go to a team that's ALREADY a playoff team, in the hope that they can improve that team to be a GOOD playoff team...or even better, a legit contender.

There's a very big difference in perception between a team that got a #7 seed and a team that got a #10 seed.  Nobody wants to go to bad teams unless it's a huge market team like the Knicks or Lakers. That's why teams like Sacramento continuously suck - nobody wants to go to a  team who just misses the playoffs every year.

Also regarding the draft being loaded, a lot of people said the same about last year's draft...and now that the season is over you could easily argue that it was one of the worst drafts of the past 20 years.  Probably bottom 5 at least.  How many guys in this draft even averaged double figure scoring?  Maybe 3 or 4?

I'd much rather let our young guys get some playoff experience under their belt - a chance to see what it's like playing the same opponent four games in a row.  A chance to see what it's like dealing with the extra pressure, the extra publicity, everything that goes with it.  If this team makes the playoffs next year, every one of those guys is going to feel that little bit more comfortable on the big stage because they've been there before.

Come on. Free agents are not so dumb to think of the Celtics as "a playoff team, could be a contender with me added to the mix". They had a losing record and they didn't win one playoff game. I doubt FA's are intrigued to join the Celtics without any other stars there, no less.

Let me follow your logic.  The Hawks won 60 games but also got swept and lost by a LARGER AVERAGE MARGIN to the Cavs than we did!!  Surely, free agents are NOT SO DUMB to think of the Hawks as a playoff team!!:-)))))

Smitty77

No let me follow YOUR logic. Your are comparing the Hawks to the Celtics because both got swept.  Never mind that the C's DID NOT WIN EVEN ONE GAME.  If you are LMA, you rather join the Hawks than the C's because the Hawks are a contender that made a deep playoff run.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

If this is true, it really just fuels the fire of people who didn't want to make the playoffs.  And now, I honestly am starting to agree.  And this is coming from someone who wanted to make the playoffs. 

But if you look now, the Celtics made the playoffs only to get swept (and in my opinion, there's nothing worse than being a playoff team that gets swept in the 1st round) and it cost them at least 6 spots in the draft this year.  Now Ainge has to give up more assets than he wanted in order to get into the top 10 for a draft that many teams feel is loaded.

You look at it now in hindsight, my mind has been changed.  I really wish we didn't make the playoffs.

There is something very much worse than getting swept in the first rounding - getting the 9th seed.

Making the playoffs is very valuable for Boston - it significantly increased their appeal to free agents looking for somewhere to sign. 

If you're a free agent star who wants to go somewhere you feel you can win for years to come...there's a very big difference between the thought "If I come here I could make this a playoff team" and "If I come here I could make this a contender". 

That's the difference in thought process between finishing as a #9 or #10 seed, versus finishing a #8 or #7 seed.  For potential free agents, it's a big difference.  Guys LMA don't want to come to Lottery teams in the hope that adding their talent could make that team a playoff team.  They want to go to a team that's ALREADY a playoff team, in the hope that they can improve that team to be a GOOD playoff team...or even better, a legit contender.

There's a very big difference in perception between a team that got a #7 seed and a team that got a #10 seed.  Nobody wants to go to bad teams unless it's a huge market team like the Knicks or Lakers. That's why teams like Sacramento continuously suck - nobody wants to go to a  team who just misses the playoffs every year.

Also regarding the draft being loaded, a lot of people said the same about last year's draft...and now that the season is over you could easily argue that it was one of the worst drafts of the past 20 years.  Probably bottom 5 at least.  How many guys in this draft even averaged double figure scoring?  Maybe 3 or 4?

I'd much rather let our young guys get some playoff experience under their belt - a chance to see what it's like playing the same opponent four games in a row.  A chance to see what it's like dealing with the extra pressure, the extra publicity, everything that goes with it.  If this team makes the playoffs next year, every one of those guys is going to feel that little bit more comfortable on the big stage because they've been there before.

Come on. Free agents are not so dumb to think of the Celtics as "a playoff team, could be a contender with me added to the mix". They had a losing record and they didn't win one playoff game. I doubt FA's are intrigued to join the Celtics without any other stars there, no less.

Let me follow your logic.  The Hawks won 60 games but also got swept and lost by a LARGER AVERAGE MARGIN to the Cavs than we did!!  Surely, free agents are NOT SO DUMB to think of the Hawks as a playoff team!!:-)))))

Smitty77

No let me follow YOUR logic. Your are comparing the Hawks to the Celtics because both got swept.  Never mind that the C's DID NOT WIN EVEN ONE GAME.  If you are LMA, you rather join the Hawks than the C's because the Hawks are a contender that made a deep playoff run.

One more try, we met Cavs first so of course Hawks had a chance to get further! We played them tight when they were FULLY healthy! Sure, we didn't win a game against the best team (maybe champion) but no one knows how we would have done against everyone else. I do know that Cavs players haven't tried to take out guys on the rest of their opponents teams, haven't seen them send Perk out there to be an enforcer either. Our series was tougher than some of you want to admit and we were the maybe the least talented team there (Bucks may have that claim, lol).

[Smitty77]

If this is true, it really just fuels the fire of people who didn't want to make the playoffs.  And now, I honestly am starting to agree.  And this is coming from someone who wanted to make the playoffs. 

But if you look now, the Celtics made the playoffs only to get swept (and in my opinion, there's nothing worse than being a playoff team that gets swept in the 1st round) and it cost them at least 6 spots in the draft this year.  Now Ainge has to give up more assets than he wanted in order to get into the top 10 for a draft that many teams feel is loaded.

You look at it now in hindsight, my mind has been changed.  I really wish we didn't make the playoffs.

There is something very much worse than getting swept in the first rounding - getting the 9th seed.

Making the playoffs is very valuable for Boston - it significantly increased their appeal to free agents looking for somewhere to sign. 

If you're a free agent star who wants to go somewhere you feel you can win for years to come...there's a very big difference between the thought "If I come here I could make this a playoff team" and "If I come here I could make this a contender". 

That's the difference in thought process between finishing as a #9 or #10 seed, versus finishing a #8 or #7 seed.  For potential free agents, it's a big difference.  Guys LMA don't want to come to Lottery teams in the hope that adding their talent could make that team a playoff team.  They want to go to a team that's ALREADY a playoff team, in the hope that they can improve that team to be a GOOD playoff team...or even better, a legit contender.

There's a very big difference in perception between a team that got a #7 seed and a team that got a #10 seed.  Nobody wants to go to bad teams unless it's a huge market team like the Knicks or Lakers. That's why teams like Sacramento continuously suck - nobody wants to go to a  team who just misses the playoffs every year.

Also regarding the draft being loaded, a lot of people said the same about last year's draft...and now that the season is over you could easily argue that it was one of the worst drafts of the past 20 years.  Probably bottom 5 at least.  How many guys in this draft even averaged double figure scoring?  Maybe 3 or 4?

I'd much rather let our young guys get some playoff experience under their belt - a chance to see what it's like playing the same opponent four games in a row.  A chance to see what it's like dealing with the extra pressure, the extra publicity, everything that goes with it.  If this team makes the playoffs next year, every one of those guys is going to feel that little bit more comfortable on the big stage because they've been there before.

Come on. Free agents are not so dumb to think of the Celtics as "a playoff team, could be a contender with me added to the mix". They had a losing record and they didn't win one playoff game. I doubt FA's are intrigued to join the Celtics without any other stars there, no less.

Let me follow your logic.  The Hawks won 60 games but also got swept and lost by a LARGER AVERAGE MARGIN to the Cavs than we did!!  Surely, free agents are NOT SO DUMB to think of the Hawks as a playoff team!!:-)))))

Smitty77

No let me follow YOUR logic. Your are comparing the Hawks to the Celtics because both got swept.  Never mind that the C's DID NOT WIN EVEN ONE GAME.  If you are LMA, you rather join the Hawks than the C's because the Hawks are a contender that made a deep playoff run.

I defer to your intellectual superiority.  I am simply incapable of competing with you.

Smitty77

[SHAQATTACK]

If this is true, it really just fuels the fire of people who didn't want to make the playoffs.  And now, I honestly am starting to agree.  And this is coming from someone who wanted to make the playoffs. 

But if you look now, the Celtics made the playoffs only to get swept (and in my opinion, there's nothing worse than being a playoff team that gets swept in the 1st round) and it cost them at least 6 spots in the draft this year.  Now Ainge has to give up more assets than he wanted in order to get into the top 10 for a draft that many teams feel is loaded.

You look at it now in hindsight, my mind has been changed.  I really wish we didn't make the playoffs.

There is something very much worse than getting swept in the first rounding - getting the 9th seed.

Making the playoffs is very valuable for Boston - it significantly increased their appeal to free agents looking for somewhere to sign. 

If you're a free agent star who wants to go somewhere you feel you can win for years to come...there's a very big difference between the thought "If I come here I could make this a playoff team" and "If I come here I could make this a contender". 

That's the difference in thought process between finishing as a #9 or #10 seed, versus finishing a #8 or #7 seed.  For potential free agents, it's a big difference.  Guys LMA don't want to come to Lottery teams in the hope that adding their talent could make that team a playoff team.  They want to go to a team that's ALREADY a playoff team, in the hope that they can improve that team to be a GOOD playoff team...or even better, a legit contender.

There's a very big difference in perception between a team that got a #7 seed and a team that got a #10 seed.  Nobody wants to go to bad teams unless it's a huge market team like the Knicks or Lakers. That's why teams like Sacramento continuously suck - nobody wants to go to a  team who just misses the playoffs every year.

Also regarding the draft being loaded, a lot of people said the same about last year's draft...and now that the season is over you could easily argue that it was one of the worst drafts of the past 20 years.  Probably bottom 5 at least.  How many guys in this draft even averaged double figure scoring?  Maybe 3 or 4?

I'd much rather let our young guys get some playoff experience under their belt - a chance to see what it's like playing the same opponent four games in a row.  A chance to see what it's like dealing with the extra pressure, the extra publicity, everything that goes with it.  If this team makes the playoffs next year, every one of those guys is going to feel that little bit more comfortable on the big stage because they've been there before.

Come on. Free agents are not so dumb to think of the Celtics as "a playoff team, could be a contender with me added to the mix". They had a losing record and they didn't win one playoff game. I doubt FA's are intrigued to join the Celtics without any other stars there, no less.

Let me follow your logic.  The Hawks won 60 games but also got swept and lost by a LARGER AVERAGE MARGIN to the Cavs than we did!!  Surely, free agents are NOT SO DUMB to think of the Hawks as a playoff team!!:-)))))

Smitty77

No let me follow YOUR logic. Your are comparing the Hawks to the Celtics because both got swept.  Never mind that the C's DID NOT WIN EVEN ONE GAME.  If you are LMA, you rather join the Hawks than the C's because the Hawks are a contender that made a deep playoff run.

One more try, we met Cavs first so of course Hawks had a chance to get further! We played them tight when they were FULLY healthy! Sure, we didn't win a game against the best team (maybe champion) but no one knows how we would have done against everyone else. I do know that Cavs players haven't tried to take out guys on the rest of their opponents teams, haven't seen them send Perk out their to be an enforcer either. Our series was tougher than some of you want to admit and we were the maybe the least talented team there (Bucks may have that claim, lol).

I agree , other than couple a Bulls games ,   Celtics and Cavs were a furious battle ......not just because I'm Celtic fan , but they were brutal......ask KLove .....and Crowder .....

We were a couple star players away from beating them ....maybe less ......Aldridge might have been the difference in a couple games.

[get_banners]

I wanted a higher pick...but once it became clear that we were never going to be one of the 5-7 worst teams in the league (most of them are atrocious AND were tanking big-time), the playoff push became a better option. There are much bigger benefits from playing the EC champs (and maybe NBA champs) tooth and nail for 4 games than picking a few spots higher. Now, if we had a real chance to be one of the worst teams in the NBA, different story. But...yeah, that was pretty much impossible given Stevens and our talent (not the greatest, but not bad, and definitely grit and balls).

[Tradetime]

So if we ended up missing the playoffs by a hair, we'd be in a lot better situation?

Our picks wouldn't have been much better (12 or 13), we would have known a lot less about what we have, and our players would have had less market value.

Come on... on March 15th with a month left in the season, the Hornets were 29-35 and the Celtics were 29-36.   Hornets were ahead of us.

The last month of the season is traditionally extended garbage time for the entire league.  Teams out of the race give reps to youth.  Teams locked into the playoffs rest their stars.   It's traditionally NBA bizarro-land.

Boston, due to Brad Stevens, finished the season 40-42 (pick 16).    Hornets, due to injuries to Jefferson and MKG, finished the season 33-49 (pick 9). 

You really think that last month (and subsequent sweep by the Cavs) had a dramatic impact on anyone's trade value or our understanding of our players?  I don't.

With the composition of Boston and Charlotte is very similar. Both are very young teams who will be able to painlessly return all impact players on their rosters.

As you said, Boston and Charlotte were in the same place before, as you put it "extended garbage time'.

During this Boston went on a huge run and Charlotte fell apart. Charlotte has 4x the top 10 talent as us and another top 10 pick on the way, but when people talk about rising young teams they dont mention Charlotte. they mention us.

As you said, we went on that run because of Brad and that is relevant. When the going got tough a lot of our players proved that they wont shy away from the moment. Charlotte on the other hand just quit.

We had injuries to IT, Sully, KO, and briefly AB but our team didnt quit and then come playoff time we faced a full strength cavs team and played them to 4 quasi competitive games.

back on March 15 I would have viewed charlotte as a team we should shoot for. Someone who if we could stay with for the rest of the season I would be happy. Instead we outplayed them. Now I would not trade positions with Charlotte.

Thus the last month was a success.

The Hornets sat Al Jefferson with about 10-12 games remaining in the season. So overall, I don't think Charlotte was very hyped on making the playoffs.

If we can get the 8th or 9th pick in this draft, then we will look like movers and shakers. If we merely re-sign Crowder, and then expect someone like Aldridge to want to sign with us, I think a free agent of that caliber might be less likely to do so.

[vjcsmoke]

Actually, I believe the eagerness of the Celtics to move up is because the talent outside of the top 10 of an NBA draft is generally a lot worse.  It just makes sense to move up for a better quality player.  I don't see the correlation with lack of faith in current players and wanting to move up using both 1st rounders.

The eagerness of the Celtics to move up really demonstrates the lack of belief in the group of guys they have now to become much more than what they are now.  The Celts want to do anything necessary to get some high level young talent.