C's reportedly been trying like crazy to trade Bass

[Jiri Welsch]

Bradley's contract is a complete waste of money. He isn't very good, and he is always injured.
Bass was overpaid because at the time we had an outside chance to compete for a championship.

I had to stop at " isn't very good"    Really?  You can have an opinion that he's overpaid, that's fine, but to say he isn't very good?  He's a very good, young, and improving player.  He's improved each and every year, plays his butt off, plays crazy defense, and has gotten better on offense each year.  He's on the verge of being a young star ... but he "isn't very good".  I'm going to go on a limb here and say your player scouting/judgement "isn't very good".

Exactly.  I will never understand the lack of love that Avery Bradley gets on this forum.  A young, tough kid, not afraid of the big moment, that is getting better.  Let's ship him out of town because he is 3 inches too short.

Bradley's PER is 12.80 which would rank him 39th among the shooting guards in the league.
He's not very good.[/quote]

Because PER objectively reveals a player's talent and value for the team!! Forget actually watching the game.

If someone mentioned Bradley's injury problems I would take them a lot more serious than just throwing out PER. Hollinger isn't as much a whiz as people think.

[D.o.s.]

Chris22 loves PER. It's his thing.

[Jiri Welsch]

Chris22 loves PER. It's his thing.

Gotcha

[Chris22]

Chris22 loves PER. It's his thing.

Gotcha

Celtics fans are such homers about their players.
There is a reason we lost so many games last year.
Once again, Bradley was overpowered by OJ Mayo.

[D.o.s.]

My distaste for PER has exactly nothing to do with my fandom, Celtic or otherwise.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Chris22 loves PER. It's his thing.

Gotcha

Celtics fans are such homers about their players.
There is a reason we lost so many games last year.
Once again, Bradley was overpowered by OJ Mayo.

That has incredibly less importance than what you're attributing it. As in, no one cares that Mayo had some good games against Bradley and it shouldn't influence one way or another an evaluation of Bradley's abilities.

[fitzhickey]

Chris22 loves PER. It's his thing.

Gotcha

Celtics fans are such homers about their players.
There is a reason we lost so many games last year.
Once again, Bradley was overpowered by OJ Mayo.

OJ Mayo had a good game, big deal. Jonny Flynn once scored 28 points, does that whoever was defending him completely useless?

[Chris22]

Chris22 loves PER. It's his thing.

Gotcha

Celtics fans are such homers about their players.
There is a reason we lost so many games last year.
Once again, Bradley was overpowered by OJ Mayo.

That has incredibly less importance than what you're attributing it. As in, no one cares that Mayo had some good games against Bradley and it shouldn't influence one way or another an evaluation of Bradley's abilities.

When people believe in mythology, no facts will sway their opinion.
Bradley played great for about two months two years ago.
Since then he has been injured and hasn't played that type of defense since.
His shooting has improved, but it had nowhere to go but up.
In a year or two James Young will be our starting SG and Bradley will be an overpaid backup.

[gpap]

Ainge needs to stop overpaying for players like Bass and Bradley.

I don't think you understand the market real well right now.  Take a look around at the contracts that have been handed out in this league.

If the rest of the league jumped off a bridge, would you?

That is an irrelevant metaphor. Ainge's slight overpaying of these players prevents other teams from offering enormous contracts that he won't match. Ainge is almost getting bargain deals compared to deals like Parsons' and Hayward's.

Parson and Hayward are not undersized.
Bass and Bradley are.

  Which explains the relative bargain on Bradley's contract compared to those guys.

Bradley's contract is a complete waste of money. He isn't very good, and he is always injured.
Bass was overpaid because at the time we had an outside chance to compete for a championship.

I had to stop at " isn't very good"    Really?  You can have an opinion that he's overpaid, that's fine, but to say he isn't very good?  He's a very good, young, and improving player.  He's improved each and every year, plays his butt off, plays crazy defense, and has gotten better on offense each year.  He's on the verge of being a young star ... but he "isn't very good".  I'm going to go on a limb here and say your player scouting/judgement "isn't very good". 

Really though when we get into these subjective labels like "isnt very good" or as you say "very good" there is a lot of room for interpretation. To me very good means someone like Kobe, Harden, Dwight or love. Basically all those players that aren't KD or LeBron.  When you say "very good" it sounds to be like you mean hes a nice stater, and as you can see these kind of labels get confusing quickly and two people talking to one another on this forum end up having two completely different conversations based on what they perceive to be "good".

Which is why I'd like to stick to facts such as

1. Bradley is young and has improved his shooting, showing he works hard on his game in the off-season
2. Bradley had a defensive rating of 109 last season, and his defense has slipped each year, at least according to defensive rating which isn't a perfect stat.
3. Bradley is undersized and injury prone, he has never played a full season but came close in 2011-2012 only missing two games.

Which I think is why when discussing a players value or how productive they are or "good" we should discuss facts about the player, not if they fit one persons definition of "good".

So am I, but something tells me Danny Ainge isn't calling me tonight, offering me a 4 yr/32 million dollar deal

[crimson_stallion]

Chris22 loves PER. It's his thing.

Gotcha

Celtics fans are such homers about their players.
There is a reason we lost so many games last year.
Once again, Bradley was overpowered by OJ Mayo.

I would like you to please take a look at Avery Bradley's ranking among starting NBA calibre guards (not just shooting guards, but all guards) in the major basic statistical categories that are relevant for a guard (Per 48 minutes), such as:

Scoring (PPG)
Rebounding (RPG)
Assists (APG)
Steals (SPG)
Fewest turnovers (TPG)
FG%
3PT%
FT%

I think you'll find he ranks pretty well in all categories except assists, which I would suggest is the one key statistic that brings his Per down so much.  Yet it is not an especially important statistic when you have so many good passers on the team.

[Chris22]

Chris22 loves PER. It's his thing.

Gotcha

Celtics fans are such homers about their players.
There is a reason we lost so many games last year.
Once again, Bradley was overpowered by OJ Mayo.

I would like you to please take a look at Avery Bradley's ranking among starting NBA calibre guards (not just shooting guards, but all guards) in the major basic statistical categories that are relevant for a guard (Per 48 minutes), such as:

Scoring (PPG)
Rebounding (RPG)
Assists (APG)
Steals (SPG)
Fewest turnovers (TPG)
FG%
3PT%
FT%

I think you'll find he ranks pretty well in all categories except assists, which I would suggest is the one key statistic that brings his Per down so much.  Yet it is not an especially important statistic when you have so many good passers on the team.

Bradley's ranking among shooting guards only......

Scoring 19th....he shoots a lot for a bad team.
Rebounds 6th....very good.
Steals 15th...the thing he does well.
Assists 53rd....he's a terrible passer.
Turnovers per game 78th.....Yikes!
FG% 35th....he's not a good shooter.
FT% 43rd....that one surprised me.

Thanks for proving my point. He isn't very good.

Here are the links if anyone doubts what I am saying.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/4240/avery-bradley

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/assists/sort/avgAssists/qualified/false/position/shooting-guards/count/41

[inverselock]

Ainge needs to stop overpaying for players like Bass and Bradley.

I don't think you understand the market real well right now.  Take a look around at the contracts that have been handed out in this league.

If the rest of the league jumped off a bridge, would you?

That is an irrelevant metaphor. Ainge's slight overpaying of these players prevents other teams from offering enormous contracts that he won't match. Ainge is almost getting bargain deals compared to deals like Parsons' and Hayward's.

Parson and Hayward are not undersized.
Bass and Bradley are.

  Which explains the relative bargain on Bradley's contract compared to those guys.

Bradley's contract is a complete waste of money. He isn't very good, and he is always injured.
Bass was overpaid because at the time we had an outside chance to compete for a championship.

I had to stop at " isn't very good"    Really?  You can have an opinion that he's overpaid, that's fine, but to say he isn't very good?  He's a very good, young, and improving player.  He's improved each and every year, plays his butt off, plays crazy defense, and has gotten better on offense each year.  He's on the verge of being a young star ... but he "isn't very good".  I'm going to go on a limb here and say your player scouting/judgement "isn't very good". 

Really though when we get into these subjective labels like "isnt very good" or as you say "very good" there is a lot of room for interpretation. To me very good means someone like Kobe, Harden, Dwight or love. Basically all those players that aren't KD or LeBron.  When you say "very good" it sounds to be like you mean hes a nice stater, and as you can see these kind of labels get confusing quickly and two people talking to one another on this forum end up having two completely different conversations based on what they perceive to be "good".

Which is why I'd like to stick to facts such as

1. Bradley is young and has improved his shooting, showing he works hard on his game in the off-season
2. Bradley had a defensive rating of 109 last season, and his defense has slipped each year, at least according to defensive rating which isn't a perfect stat.
3. Bradley is undersized and injury prone, he has never played a full season but came close in 2011-2012 only missing two games.

Which I think is why when discussing a players value or how productive they are or "good" we should discuss facts about the player, not if they fit one persons definition of "good".

So am I, but something tells me Danny Ainge isn't calling me tonight, offering me a 4 yr/32 million dollar deal

You played in the NBA last year?  What kind of numbers did you produce?

[gpap]

Ainge needs to stop overpaying for players like Bass and Bradley.

I don't think you understand the market real well right now.  Take a look around at the contracts that have been handed out in this league.

If the rest of the league jumped off a bridge, would you?

That is an irrelevant metaphor. Ainge's slight overpaying of these players prevents other teams from offering enormous contracts that he won't match. Ainge is almost getting bargain deals compared to deals like Parsons' and Hayward's.

Parson and Hayward are not undersized.
Bass and Bradley are.

  Which explains the relative bargain on Bradley's contract compared to those guys.

Bradley's contract is a complete waste of money. He isn't very good, and he is always injured.
Bass was overpaid because at the time we had an outside chance to compete for a championship.

I had to stop at " isn't very good"    Really?  You can have an opinion that he's overpaid, that's fine, but to say he isn't very good?  He's a very good, young, and improving player.  He's improved each and every year, plays his butt off, plays crazy defense, and has gotten better on offense each year.  He's on the verge of being a young star ... but he "isn't very good".  I'm going to go on a limb here and say your player scouting/judgement "isn't very good". 

Really though when we get into these subjective labels like "isnt very good" or as you say "very good" there is a lot of room for interpretation. To me very good means someone like Kobe, Harden, Dwight or love. Basically all those players that aren't KD or LeBron.  When you say "very good" it sounds to be like you mean hes a nice stater, and as you can see these kind of labels get confusing quickly and two people talking to one another on this forum end up having two completely different conversations based on what they perceive to be "good".

Which is why I'd like to stick to facts such as

1. Bradley is young and has improved his shooting, showing he works hard on his game in the off-season
2. Bradley had a defensive rating of 109 last season, and his defense has slipped each year, at least according to defensive rating which isn't a perfect stat.
3. Bradley is undersized and injury prone, he has never played a full season but came close in 2011-2012 only missing two games.

Which I think is why when discussing a players value or how productive they are or "good" we should discuss facts about the player, not if they fit one persons definition of "good".

So am I, but something tells me Danny Ainge isn't calling me tonight, offering me a 4 yr/32 million dollar deal

You played in the NBA last year?  What kind of numbers did you produce?

Who me?

I had a huge year, last year.

My record was immaculate.

0 games played, 0 points per game, 0 points attempted.

I was perfect.

[inverselock]

Can't believe Danny didn't give you that contract.   Bad luck mate.   Don't give up.

[gpap]

Can't believe Danny didn't give you that contract.   Bad luck mate.   Don't give up.

My agent is smoothing him over as I type this.