Asik trade rumors (deal reportedly off)

[BballTim]

Bass, Lee and a 1st rounder for Asik is a sideways move anyways.  Bass is as much an "elite" defender as Asik.  The same measures point to Bass as being a game-changer. 

Asik is a nice role player.  MOrey is trying to scam the league into believing he's some star. 

The lesson here... is that if we overpay Faverani 8 million a year, hold conferences yearly to explain why he's so amazing, and get the media to hype him as an "elite" defender... perhaps we too can have a "trade sweepstakes" in a few years.

Not sure if serious.

On an individual basis, I think that's true.

Asik is just a few inches taller, which means he can have a larger impact on the team defense.

  So can his rebounding.

[kozlodoev]

Not the easiest thing in the world to rank these players, but taking all factors and 5 minutes into account, that's my best shot at framing the discussion. Asik and Bogut is an interesting comparison- defensively they are very similar values. Offensively, Bogut is far superior. Durability-wise, Asik wins.

If I had my choice, I'd rather have Bogut than Asik. I like LooseCannon's tiers, though, for the most part. I think I'd prefer Asik to Al Jefferson or Nic Vucevic, for example.

Except that Bogut has fallen off a cliff after his injury, and is barely managing 6 shots a game these days. He's also  considerably more dependent on others creating for him rather than going to work offensively.

He's probably one of the worst starting centers in the league right now. Good for GSW that they're off the hook for his mammoth contract at the end of this season.

[Clench123]

So, what happened?  Is the deal still in works or is it done?  I don't want to have to go back few pages. 

[PhoSita]

Bass, Lee and a 1st rounder for Asik is a sideways move anyways.  Bass is as much an "elite" defender as Asik.  The same measures point to Bass as being a game-changer. 

Asik is a nice role player.  MOrey is trying to scam the league into believing he's some star. 

The lesson here... is that if we overpay Faverani 8 million a year, hold conferences yearly to explain why he's so amazing, and get the media to hype him as an "elite" defender... perhaps we too can have a "trade sweepstakes" in a few years.

Not sure if serious.

On an individual basis, I think that's true.

Asik is just a few inches taller, which means he can have a larger impact on the team defense.

  So can his rebounding.

Absolutely.  I left out the rebounding as a separate factor, though Asik can help prevent offensive rebounds which aids the defense.

[j804]

Bass, Lee and a 1st rounder for Asik is a sideways move anyways.  Bass is as much an "elite" defender as Asik.  The same measures point to Bass as being a game-changer. 

Asik is a nice role player.  MOrey is trying to scam the league into believing he's some star. 

The lesson here... is that if we overpay Faverani 8 million a year, hold conferences yearly to explain why he's so amazing, and get the media to hype him as an "elite" defender... perhaps we too can have a "trade sweepstakes" in a few years.

Too bad serious NBA teams actually run scouting departments.

Yup... and clearly those scouting departments don't think as much of Asik as Morey does... otherwise they would have sent an offer worth taking.

Morey is trying to have ppl sell asik like Ainge had ppl talk up perk. Perk was the Howard stopper, and the enforcer, etc.

Ainge got a package for perk that Morey wants for asik basically. Thing is Ainge had to wait up until the deadline before he got presti to cave and add the clippers pick which at the time appeared to be late lottery.

It's funny out of all the ppl Morey is trying to sell asik too it's Ainge. lol the man who sold perk on two banged up knees.

Ironic. Ainge is no fool. He almost always wins in trades.

Unlikely ppl give up what Ainge got for perk for asik. One way players aren't worth that many assets. Especially to non contenders. Morey is high if he thinks he's getting a perk package for asik. Especially from Ainge.

who did we get with that pick again? Melo?

[Kane3387]

Aside- Asik's credentials as an elite defender aren't media hype. By every quantitative measure I've seen, he's one of the best defenders in the NBA. Brandon Bass is a good player, but he's nowhere near that conversation.

Bass is allowing a minuscule 0.528 points per play (28 points on 53 possessions), according to individual defensive data logged by Synergy Sports. Consider this: Of players with more than 40 possessions defended entering Thursday's action, Bass ranked first in the NBA at that mark (out of 120 qualifiers). What's more, opponents are scoring on a mere 22.6 percent of total possessions again him, the best mark in the league by nearly 3 percent.

What's more encouraging is the team's defensive performance when Bass is on the floor. The Celtics own a defensive rating of 95 points per 100 possessions with Bass on the court. That's 4.1 points less than the team's season average, and that number skyrockets to 106.3 when Bass is on the bench.

http://m.espn.go.com/general/story?storyId=9942711&city=boston&src=desktop

He was very good earlier in the year. Not sure if this has still held up but I don't think he's fallen off much.

[LooseCannon]

Asik is a top ten center and I wouldn't laugh at someone who valued him as a top five center in the NBA.

Slot him in there for me- where do you see him?

1. Howard
2. Hibbert
3. Chandler
4. M. Gasol
5. Noah
6. B. Lopez
7. Horford
8. Bosh
9. Drummond
10. Bogut
11. Vucevic
12. Jefferson
13. Pekovic
14. P. Gasol
15. Jordan
16. Splitter
17. Hawes
18. Varejao
19. Hill
20. Koufos
21. Valenciunas
22. McGee
...?

I put him around Drummond right now and next season, based solely on actual performance and not upside.  (I'm not sold on Drummond, but that's an entirely different thread).  I don't think there is a center who is clearly a better rebounder than Asik.  I can see making a case that there is no center who is clearly a better defender.

I think Asik's offense is better than Jefferson's defense and Asik's defense is better than Jefferson's offense, so I think he should be above Jefferson.  if you criticize Asik for being a one-way player, then you should be critical of Jefferson for being a one-way, offense-only defensive liability. 

Asik's been a durable guy, so that would have me place him over guys like Bogut or Bynum, who might be better players when healthy but are huge question marks as to how healthy they will be.  We'll see how Chandler returns from injury.

I could accept someone ranking only Howard, Hibbert, Gasol, and Lopez ahead of Asik, discounting Chandler and Noah due to health and claiming that Horford and Bosh are really PFs.  Not saying I would rank them that way, just that I wouldn't think it crazy if someone else did.  I have way more respect for the opinion of someone who would say that about Asik than for the opinion of someone who thinks that Asik is just a backup who shouldn't be starting in the NBA.

[Kane3387]

Bass, Lee and a 1st rounder for Asik is a sideways move anyways.  Bass is as much an "elite" defender as Asik.  The same measures point to Bass as being a game-changer. 

Asik is a nice role player.  MOrey is trying to scam the league into believing he's some star. 

The lesson here... is that if we overpay Faverani 8 million a year, hold conferences yearly to explain why he's so amazing, and get the media to hype him as an "elite" defender... perhaps we too can have a "trade sweepstakes" in a few years.

Too bad serious NBA teams actually run scouting departments.

Yup... and clearly those scouting departments don't think as much of Asik as Morey does... otherwise they would have sent an offer worth taking.

Morey is trying to have ppl sell asik like Ainge had ppl talk up perk. Perk was the Howard stopper, and the enforcer, etc.

Ainge got a package for perk that Morey wants for asik basically. Thing is Ainge had to wait up until the deadline before he got presti to cave and add the clippers pick which at the time appeared to be late lottery.

It's funny out of all the ppl Morey is trying to sell asik too it's Ainge. lol the man who sold perk on two banged up knees.

Ironic. Ainge is no fool. He almost always wins in trades.

Unlikely ppl give up what Ainge got for perk for asik. One way players aren't worth that many assets. Especially to non contenders. Morey is high if he thinks he's getting a perk package for asik. Especially from Ainge.

who did we get with that pick again? Melo?

No one knew the clips would be gifted Chris Paul...

[sofutomygaha]

Not the easiest thing in the world to rank these players, but taking all factors and 5 minutes into account, that's my best shot at framing the discussion. Asik and Bogut is an interesting comparison- defensively they are very similar values. Offensively, Bogut is far superior. Durability-wise, Asik wins.

If I had my choice, I'd rather have Bogut than Asik. I like LooseCannon's tiers, though, for the most part. I think I'd prefer Asik to Al Jefferson or Nic Vucevic, for example.

Except that Bogut has fallen off a cliff after his injury, and is barely managing 6 shots a game these days. He's also  considerably more dependent on others creating for him rather than going to work offensively.

He's probably one of the worst starting centers in the league right now. Good for GSW that they're off the hook for his mammoth contract at the end of this season.

I admit that I haven't been following Bogut particularly closely in the last few weeks. I hope he's on the mend and getting back to something like himself, but you probably know more about it than I. The reason I threw that list out there is because it's easy to say "X is a top 5 Y" without thinking about the actual candidates. We do this all the time when we imagine Jeff Green as an all-star. If you actually lay out the competition in black and white, you usually end up reconsidering the superlatives.

Does anyone want to make the case that Asik is ahead of all but 9 other guys on that list?

[LooseCannon]

Not the easiest thing in the world to rank these players, but taking all factors and 5 minutes into account, that's my best shot at framing the discussion. Asik and Bogut is an interesting comparison- defensively they are very similar values. Offensively, Bogut is far superior. Durability-wise, Asik wins.

If I had my choice, I'd rather have Bogut than Asik. I like LooseCannon's tiers, though, for the most part. I think I'd prefer Asik to Al Jefferson or Nic Vucevic, for example.

Except that Bogut has fallen off a cliff after his injury, and is barely managing 6 shots a game these days. He's also  considerably more dependent on others creating for him rather than going to work offensively.

He's probably one of the worst starting centers in the league right now. Good for GSW that they're off the hook for his mammoth contract at the end of this season.

Well, they did give him a three-year extension in October worth $36m guaranteed with incentives that can make it grow to $41.4m.

[Monkhouse]

So, what happened?  Is the deal still in works or is it done?  I don't want to have to go back few pages.

Its off for now, but the actual deadline is surprisingly 'tomorrow,' so who knows if it is posturing or DM seriously being high enough to believe Asik is worth an unprotected draft pick.

[sofutomygaha]

Aside- Asik's credentials as an elite defender aren't media hype. By every quantitative measure I've seen, he's one of the best defenders in the NBA. Brandon Bass is a good player, but he's nowhere near that conversation.

Bass is allowing a minuscule 0.528 points per play (28 points on 53 possessions), according to individual defensive data logged by Synergy Sports. Consider this: Of players with more than 40 possessions defended entering Thursday's action, Bass ranked first in the NBA at that mark (out of 120 qualifiers). What's more, opponents are scoring on a mere 22.6 percent of total possessions again him, the best mark in the league by nearly 3 percent.

What's more encouraging is the team's defensive performance when Bass is on the floor. The Celtics own a defensive rating of 95 points per 100 possessions with Bass on the court. That's 4.1 points less than the team's season average, and that number skyrockets to 106.3 when Bass is on the bench.

http://m.espn.go.com/general/story?storyId=9942711&city=boston&src=desktop

He was very good earlier in the year. Not sure if this has still held up but I don't think he's fallen off much.

Good stuff, thanks. It's a short track record, but based on what he's done so far this season you certainly could have a point.

[kozlodoev]

Not the easiest thing in the world to rank these players, but taking all factors and 5 minutes into account, that's my best shot at framing the discussion. Asik and Bogut is an interesting comparison- defensively they are very similar values. Offensively, Bogut is far superior. Durability-wise, Asik wins.

If I had my choice, I'd rather have Bogut than Asik. I like LooseCannon's tiers, though, for the most part. I think I'd prefer Asik to Al Jefferson or Nic Vucevic, for example.

Except that Bogut has fallen off a cliff after his injury, and is barely managing 6 shots a game these days. He's also  considerably more dependent on others creating for him rather than going to work offensively.

He's probably one of the worst starting centers in the league right now. Good for GSW that they're off the hook for his mammoth contract at the end of this season.

Well, they did give him a three-year extension in October worth $36m guaranteed with incentives that can make it grow to $41.4m.

I guess that one's not reflected on his Basketball Reference page. That's just nuts.

[BleedGreen1989]

Not the easiest thing in the world to rank these players, but taking all factors and 5 minutes into account, that's my best shot at framing the discussion. Asik and Bogut is an interesting comparison- defensively they are very similar values. Offensively, Bogut is far superior. Durability-wise, Asik wins.

If I had my choice, I'd rather have Bogut than Asik. I like LooseCannon's tiers, though, for the most part. I think I'd prefer Asik to Al Jefferson or Nic Vucevic, for example.

Except that Bogut has fallen off a cliff after his injury, and is barely managing 6 shots a game these days. He's also  considerably more dependent on others creating for him rather than going to work offensively.

He's probably one of the worst starting centers in the league right now. Good for GSW that they're off the hook for his mammoth contract at the end of this season.

Well, they did give him a three-year extension in October worth $36m guaranteed with incentives that can make it grow to $41.4m.

I guess that one's not reflected on his Basketball Reference page. That's just nuts.

Yeah, pretty terrible deal...

[kozlodoev]

Not the easiest thing in the world to rank these players, but taking all factors and 5 minutes into account, that's my best shot at framing the discussion. Asik and Bogut is an interesting comparison- defensively they are very similar values. Offensively, Bogut is far superior. Durability-wise, Asik wins.

If I had my choice, I'd rather have Bogut than Asik. I like LooseCannon's tiers, though, for the most part. I think I'd prefer Asik to Al Jefferson or Nic Vucevic, for example.

Except that Bogut has fallen off a cliff after his injury, and is barely managing 6 shots a game these days. He's also  considerably more dependent on others creating for him rather than going to work offensively.

He's probably one of the worst starting centers in the league right now. Good for GSW that they're off the hook for his mammoth contract at the end of this season.

I admit that I haven't been following Bogut particularly closely in the last few weeks. I hope he's on the mend and getting back to something like himself, but you probably know more about it than I. The reason I threw that list out there is because it's easy to say "X is a top 5 Y" without thinking about the actual candidates. We do this all the time when we imagine Jeff Green as an all-star. If you actually lay out the competition in black and white, you usually end up reconsidering the superlatives.

Does anyone want to make the case that Asik is ahead of all but 9 other guys on that list?

Based on their current level of play, the only guys I'd rather have play center for me instead of Asik are the top 7 from your list + Drummond + DeAndre Jordan (barely). This makes him top 10 easily.