Asik trade rumors (deal reportedly off)

[Yoki_IsTheName]

There's a lot of talk about this guy for Jeff Green or Brendon Bass.
Can someone please convince me as to how this guy fits.
I am just going on record as "I don't see this guy as anything more then a second string center"!!!

He role in the team would be the interior defender. Think of him as Andrew Bogut that is a bit quicker on his feet, but less the skills and none of the good passing. He'll do the dirty work down low, challenge and block shots, defend the paint and control the rebounds. (as long as he doesnt quit)

Giving up Brandon Bass for him should be okay, although Bass is playing great as of now. I don't know about Green though. Asik I think is no where near Green's value.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

This is from Hoopshype.com

One possible scenario that has emerged, sources say, is a three-way trade in which Boston lands Asik, Cleveland absorbs the contract of Celtics forward Jeff Green and Houston scores no fewer than one of the future first-round picks it covets for surrendering Asik. Other players would have to be involved in such a trade to make the salary-cap math work, but it's the sort of trade that would fall in line with Cleveland's well-known focus on upgrading its options at small forward. ESPN.com -

I'm not sure if I want to give up Green for Asik. Jeff has really good, especially for what we are paying him.

I dont get the Jeff Green hate around Boston. He has played well for us especially this year. I also dont want to give up Jeff in an Asik deal because he has been proven to guard (or at least somewhat contain)  the James, Durants, and Georges of the world with more success than most others can. And thats huge in todays NBA.

Exactly.

Asik is NO WHERE near Green's value. Green can do so much more on a reasonable contract than Asik can. I get that he's not assertive most of the times, but he's doing great on the other things. Shooting efficiently, defending great.

[Nerf DPOY]

This is from Hoopshype.com

One possible scenario that has emerged, sources say, is a three-way trade in which Boston lands Asik, Cleveland absorbs the contract of Celtics forward Jeff Green and Houston scores no fewer than one of the future first-round picks it covets for surrendering Asik. Other players would have to be involved in such a trade to make the salary-cap math work, but it's the sort of trade that would fall in line with Cleveland's well-known focus on upgrading its options at small forward. ESPN.com -

I'm not sure if I want to give up Green for Asik. Jeff has really good, especially for what we are paying him.

I dont get the Jeff Green hate around Boston. He has played well for us especially this year. I also dont want to give up Jeff in an Asik deal because he has been proven to guard (or at least somewhat contain)  the James, Durants, and Georges of the world with more success than most others can. And thats huge in todays NBA.

Exactly.

Asik is NO WHERE near Green's value. Green can do so much more on a reasonable contract than Asik can. I get that he's not assertive most of the times, but he's doing great on the other things. Shooting efficiently, defending great.

I think some can't seem to separate Green from the timing of the Green/Perkins trade, and I honestly think a lot of the negativity may stem from Felger deciding that attacking Green was going to be one of his new talking points. I can't say for sure how influential Felger is in shaping fan's opinions on players, but if he isn't, it's not for lack of exposure.

[Evantime34]

There's a lot of talk about this guy for Jeff Green or Brendon Bass.
Can someone please convince me as to how this guy fits.
I am just going on record as "I don't see this guy as anything more then a second string center"!!!

This year he is getting almost twice as many rebounds that are available as Sullinger, this year he has defended the rim better than Noah, Duncan, Ibaka and Howard. He is a top 5 defensive center in the league.

[Chris]

This is from Hoopshype.com

One possible scenario that has emerged, sources say, is a three-way trade in which Boston lands Asik, Cleveland absorbs the contract of Celtics forward Jeff Green and Houston scores no fewer than one of the future first-round picks it covets for surrendering Asik. Other players would have to be involved in such a trade to make the salary-cap math work, but it's the sort of trade that would fall in line with Cleveland's well-known focus on upgrading its options at small forward. ESPN.com -

I'm not sure if I want to give up Green for Asik. Jeff has really good, especially for what we are paying him.

I dont get the Jeff Green hate around Boston. He has played well for us especially this year. I also dont want to give up Jeff in an Asik deal because he has been proven to guard (or at least somewhat contain)  the James, Durants, and Georges of the world with more success than most others can. And thats huge in todays NBA.

While I agree, having a good big man defender is just as important as the wing defender against scoring wings, because it is the help defense that keeps them out of the lane.  And big men are harder to find than wings.

[beklog]

I look at this way:
which is easier to find in NBA??

A 7ft big that can clogged the paint, grab rebounds and play defense
vs
Inconsistent wing player that can drive and shoot 3s

[pearljammer10]

This is from Hoopshype.com

One possible scenario that has emerged, sources say, is a three-way trade in which Boston lands Asik, Cleveland absorbs the contract of Celtics forward Jeff Green and Houston scores no fewer than one of the future first-round picks it covets for surrendering Asik. Other players would have to be involved in such a trade to make the salary-cap math work, but it's the sort of trade that would fall in line with Cleveland's well-known focus on upgrading its options at small forward. ESPN.com -

I'm not sure if I want to give up Green for Asik. Jeff has really good, especially for what we are paying him.

I dont get the Jeff Green hate around Boston. He has played well for us especially this year. I also dont want to give up Jeff in an Asik deal because he has been proven to guard (or at least somewhat contain)  the James, Durants, and Georges of the world with more success than most others can. And thats huge in todays NBA.

While I agree, having a good big man defender is just as important as the wing defender against scoring wings, because it is the help defense that keeps them out of the lane.  And big men are harder to find than wings.

Valid point and I agree with it to a certain extent. Without Green to guard and contain these types of guys on the perimeter, they will drive to the hole and probably just get Asik fouled out anyway.

[Evantime34]

This is from Hoopshype.com

One possible scenario that has emerged, sources say, is a three-way trade in which Boston lands Asik, Cleveland absorbs the contract of Celtics forward Jeff Green and Houston scores no fewer than one of the future first-round picks it covets for surrendering Asik. Other players would have to be involved in such a trade to make the salary-cap math work, but it's the sort of trade that would fall in line with Cleveland's well-known focus on upgrading its options at small forward. ESPN.com -

I'm not sure if I want to give up Green for Asik. Jeff has really good, especially for what we are paying him.

I dont get the Jeff Green hate around Boston. He has played well for us especially this year. I also dont want to give up Jeff in an Asik deal because he has been proven to guard (or at least somewhat contain)  the James, Durants, and Georges of the world with more success than most others can. And thats huge in todays NBA.

While I agree, having a good big man defender is just as important as the wing defender against scoring wings, because it is the help defense that keeps them out of the lane.  And big men are harder to find than wings.

Valid point and I agree with it to a certain extent. Without Green to guard and contain these types of guys on the perimeter, they will drive to the hole and probably just get Asik fouled out anyway.

I think Gerald Wallace is actually a better defender than Jeff Green, but trading Green would really hurt our offense.

If you like defense though, a lineup of Rondo, Bradley, Wallace, Bass or Sully and Asik would be elite defensively.

[pearljammer10]

I look at this way:
which is easier to find in NBA??

A 7ft big that can clogged the paint, grab rebounds and play defense
vs
Inconsistent wing player that can drive and shoot 3s

Again I agree to certain extent, but if it was so easy to find a wing of Jeff Green's caliber why havent we done so yet. He averages 17 and 5 with 45% and 40% shooting. He's in the top ten of SF's in the league, he isnt exactly easily replaceable.

If Asik was a legit monster of a player then its a different story but Asik, in my mind, isn't exactly an All Star nba center. He's pretty great but I dont think his value is worth a player of Green's caliber.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

This is from Hoopshype.com

One possible scenario that has emerged, sources say, is a three-way trade in which Boston lands Asik, Cleveland absorbs the contract of Celtics forward Jeff Green and Houston scores no fewer than one of the future first-round picks it covets for surrendering Asik. Other players would have to be involved in such a trade to make the salary-cap math work, but it's the sort of trade that would fall in line with Cleveland's well-known focus on upgrading its options at small forward. ESPN.com -

I'm not sure if I want to give up Green for Asik. Jeff has really good, especially for what we are paying him.

I dont get the Jeff Green hate around Boston. He has played well for us especially this year. I also dont want to give up Jeff in an Asik deal because he has been proven to guard (or at least somewhat contain)  the James, Durants, and Georges of the world with more success than most others can. And thats huge in todays NBA.

While I agree, having a good big man defender is just as important as the wing defender against scoring wings, because it is the help defense that keeps them out of the lane.  And big men are harder to find than wings.

But then the trade will make no sense.

Are we trading for Asik just to have him or are we trading for Asik because we saw the potential of the team and is now trying to make a Playoff run?

Giving Green for Asik would put us in the same boat, if not worse as we lose one of our offensive weapons. And while it's easier to find a scoring wing, keep in mind that Omer is only contracted until next year. Unless we get a replacement for Green right now and next year, swapping him for Asik would make no sense.

[Evantime34]

I look at this way:
which is easier to find in NBA??

A 7ft big that can clogged the paint, grab rebounds and play defense
vs
Inconsistent wing player that can drive and shoot 3s

Again I agree to certain extent, but if it was so easy to find a wing of Jeff Green's caliber why havent we done so yet. He averages 17 and 5 with 45% and 40% shooting. He's in the top ten of SF's in the league, he isnt exactly easily replaceable.

If Asik was a legit monster of a player then its a different story but Asik, in my mind, isn't exactly an All Star nba center. He's pretty great but I dont think his value is worth a player of Green's caliber.

Asik isn't an all star center and Green isn't an all star sf. Asik's value doesn't show up in the box score as much as Green, but the advanced numbers indicate that Asik is the better player.

[wdleehi]

I look at this way:
which is easier to find in NBA??

A 7ft big that can clogged the paint, grab rebounds and play defense
vs
Inconsistent wing player that can drive and shoot 3s

Again I agree to certain extent, but if it was so easy to find a wing of Jeff Green's caliber why havent we done so yet. He averages 17 and 5 with 45% and 40% shooting. He's in the top ten of SF's in the league, he isnt exactly easily replaceable.

If Asik was a legit monster of a player then its a different story but Asik, in my mind, isn't exactly an All Star nba center. He's pretty great but I dont think his value is worth a player of Green's caliber.

In the NBA, Asik's worth is more. 


7 footer.

Plays elite level defense.

Strong rebounder.

Cap impact is less and for a shorter period.




In the NBA, size matters.  Is it any surprise the teams the Heat has the most trouble with are large teams?  And that large team added more talent at the PF position? 




And this is the value on Asik who is asking to be traded from a team that has the best player in the NBA at that position in front of him already.  Imagine what his value could be when he is the clear starter and is not demanding a trade. 



Green is a good player, but he plays at a position that is deeper in the NBA and would be easier to find a replacement for then a C.  The Celtics are still trying to replace Perk who was traded a few seasons ago. 

[Chris]

This is from Hoopshype.com

One possible scenario that has emerged, sources say, is a three-way trade in which Boston lands Asik, Cleveland absorbs the contract of Celtics forward Jeff Green and Houston scores no fewer than one of the future first-round picks it covets for surrendering Asik. Other players would have to be involved in such a trade to make the salary-cap math work, but it's the sort of trade that would fall in line with Cleveland's well-known focus on upgrading its options at small forward. ESPN.com -

I'm not sure if I want to give up Green for Asik. Jeff has really good, especially for what we are paying him.

I dont get the Jeff Green hate around Boston. He has played well for us especially this year. I also dont want to give up Jeff in an Asik deal because he has been proven to guard (or at least somewhat contain)  the James, Durants, and Georges of the world with more success than most others can. And thats huge in todays NBA.

While I agree, having a good big man defender is just as important as the wing defender against scoring wings, because it is the help defense that keeps them out of the lane.  And big men are harder to find than wings.

But then the trade will make no sense.

Are we trading for Asik just to have him or are we trading for Asik because we saw the potential of the team and is now trying to make a Playoff run?

Giving Green for Asik would put us in the same boat, if not worse as we lose one of our offensive weapons. And while it's easier to find a scoring wing, keep in mind that Omer is only contracted until next year. Unless we get a replacement for Green right now and next year, swapping him for Asik would make no sense.

I think you would be trading for Asik, knowing that you need to make another move to then replace Green, but you know that a slightly above average scoring wing is easier to come by than a defensive anchor center. 

I don't think this team has a chance to be above average until they get an above average defensive big man to pair with Sully (well, short of getting a superstar wing player, which isn't happening this year).  But, if they have Asik, they could then use some of the other assets/expiring contracts they have to get a quality wing (someone mentioned Granger, which would fit), and suddenly you have a team that could do some real damage in the playoffs. 

And that second shoe could possibly not even drop until the offseason.

The interesting thing about a Green for Asik trade is that it absolutely kills the floor spacing, which has been a strength of the team this year, allowing them to overachieve a bit.  While Asik is a better player, and more valuable piece than Green, on this particular team, he would actually make them significantly worse until they replaced Green. 

So, what could happen is Danny could be filling the center hole right now, when he sees this opportunity, while deciding to go ahead with tanking the season.  And then use the assets he has to fill in the roster around Rondo/Bradley/Sully/Asik/lottery pick to make a run next year.

[CelticG1]

I look at this way:
which is easier to find in NBA??

A 7ft big that can clogged the paint, grab rebounds and play defense
vs
Inconsistent wing player that can drive and shoot 3s

I'd rather have Green. There are a few semi dominant centers in the NBA where there are solid SFs every night and the best players in the game are SF.

You can get away with playing whoever at center like half the league does. Unless you are getting one of the top bigs I  the league I domt see the point. Asik is an average center. Him being 7 feet tall isn't all that enticing to me.

If people are going to try and convince me that having a guy like Asik will help more defensively on a guy like lebron than Green well good luck.

Just like you aren't going to convince me that Hibbert is more importantly defensively on lebron type guys than George

[Neurotic Guy]

Boston send Green and Clippers 2015 1st rounder
Boston receives Asik

Cleveland sends Varejao
Cleveland receives Green

Houston sends Asik
Houston receives Varejao and Clippers 2015 1st rounder

This seems like the most likely scenario as Cleveland gets Green for their SF position and opens up playing time at the PF position for Bennett and Thompson exclusively. Houston gets their first rounder and a complimentary defensive piece to put next to Howard that can hit the 15 footer for the foul line extended. Boston gets their future defensive anchor of a center to put next to emerging offensive and rebounding star Jared Sullinger


And in the meantime, Bass switches to small forward as he played a lot at that position in the last two year's playoffs guarding Melo and Lebron for stretches.When Asik goes to the bench Sully switches to center, Bass to PF and Wallace gets time at SF. When Sully and Bass sit Asik comes back in with either Humph or Olynyk playing next to him before returning to the starting lineup late in halves.

pick(if any) doesn't come from us. I'd ask for a pick from Cleveland.

Straight swap works but Danny probably milks this till the end. He's asking for Asik and Waiters e Green+ picks going out-knowing that he's getting Asik and a pick or no deal.
Morrey would be desperate for Green. Danny doesnt pose these if the trade goes through.

I think this is basically it.  At least I hope so. 

Danny is aware of value and is also a shrewd negotiator.  He'll deal Green if we get value in return.  Each minute that passes puts more pressure on Houston as they have set their deadline and internally things get worse for them if no deal is done.   

I think Danny feels very comfortable passing on a deal -- no urgency -- I think he is fine to sit back while his player assets rise in value (Green, Bass, AB, JC, Sully, KO).   If the deal is essentially Green for Asik plus a 2014 pick (or a young talent), I think he may pull the trigger.  Bass and Brooks for Asik would also seem a no-brainer.