Asik trade rumors (deal reportedly off)

[jambr380]

I look at this way:
which is easier to find in NBA??

A 7ft big that can clogged the paint, grab rebounds and play defense
vs
Inconsistent wing player that can drive and shoot 3s

Again I agree to certain extent, but if it was so easy to find a wing of Jeff Green's caliber why havent we done so yet. He averages 17 and 5 with 45% and 40% shooting. He's in the top ten of SF's in the league, he isnt exactly easily replaceable.

If Asik was a legit monster of a player then its a different story but Asik, in my mind, isn't exactly an All Star nba center. He's pretty great but I dont think his value is worth a player of Green's caliber.

Asik isn't an all star center and Green isn't an all star sf. Asik's value doesn't show up in the box score as much as Green, but the advanced numbers indicate that Asik is the better player.

And you're sure of this because???

Green is clearly by far the better player of the two. I am glad that Asik is such a good low post defender, but he is pretty utterly useless in just about every other facet of the game. Also, for such a great defender, he sure doesn't block his share of shots.

Green is exactly the type of non-superstar every team would be happy to have. He is efficient, has the ability to take over a game, can guard the other team's best player, and is literally [at least] good at every aspect of the game of basketball.

If a deal goes down with Asik and we are trading Green, it will be a sad day in Boston. I say he is much more worth Humphries expiring and the LAC 1st than he is Green.

[BleedGreen1989]

This is from Hoopshype.com

One possible scenario that has emerged, sources say, is a three-way trade in which Boston lands Asik, Cleveland absorbs the contract of Celtics forward Jeff Green and Houston scores no fewer than one of the future first-round picks it covets for surrendering Asik. Other players would have to be involved in such a trade to make the salary-cap math work, but it's the sort of trade that would fall in line with Cleveland's well-known focus on upgrading its options at small forward. ESPN.com -

I'm not sure if I want to give up Green for Asik. Jeff has really good, especially for what we are paying him.

I dont get the Jeff Green hate around Boston. He has played well for us especially this year. I also dont want to give up Jeff in an Asik deal because he has been proven to guard (or at least somewhat contain)  the James, Durants, and Georges of the world with more success than most others can. And thats huge in todays NBA.

While I agree, having a good big man defender is just as important as the wing defender against scoring wings, because it is the help defense that keeps them out of the lane.  And big men are harder to find than wings.

But then the trade will make no sense.

Are we trading for Asik just to have him or are we trading for Asik because we saw the potential of the team and is now trying to make a Playoff run?

Giving Green for Asik would put us in the same boat, if not worse as we lose one of our offensive weapons. And while it's easier to find a scoring wing, keep in mind that Omer is only contracted until next year. Unless we get a replacement for Green right now and next year, swapping him for Asik would make no sense.

I think you would be trading for Asik, knowing that you need to make another move to then replace Green, but you know that a slightly above average scoring wing is easier to come by than a defensive anchor center. 

I don't think this team has a chance to be above average until they get an above average defensive big man to pair with Sully (well, short of getting a superstar wing player, which isn't happening this year).  But, if they have Asik, they could then use some of the other assets/expiring contracts they have to get a quality wing (someone mentioned Granger, which would fit), and suddenly you have a team that could do some real damage in the playoffs. 

And that second shoe could possibly not even drop until the offseason.

The interesting thing about a Green for Asik trade is that it absolutely kills the floor spacing, which has been a strength of the team this year, allowing them to overachieve a bit.  While Asik is a better player, and more valuable piece than Green, on this particular team, he would actually make them significantly worse until they replaced Green. 

So, what could happen is Danny could be filling the center hole right now, when he sees this opportunity, while deciding to go ahead with tanking the season.  And then use the assets he has to fill in the roster around Rondo/Bradley/Sully/Asik/lottery pick to make a run next year.

That's the only way I see a Green/Asik deal making any sense.

Like you said, replacing Green with Asik would turn a pretty poor offense into a "this is an NBA team?" offense.

[Evantime34]

I look at this way:
which is easier to find in NBA??

A 7ft big that can clogged the paint, grab rebounds and play defense
vs
Inconsistent wing player that can drive and shoot 3s

Again I agree to certain extent, but if it was so easy to find a wing of Jeff Green's caliber why havent we done so yet. He averages 17 and 5 with 45% and 40% shooting. He's in the top ten of SF's in the league, he isnt exactly easily replaceable.

If Asik was a legit monster of a player then its a different story but Asik, in my mind, isn't exactly an All Star nba center. He's pretty great but I dont think his value is worth a player of Green's caliber.

Asik isn't an all star center and Green isn't an all star sf. Asik's value doesn't show up in the box score as much as Green, but the advanced numbers indicate that Asik is the better player.

And you're sure of this because???

Green is clearly by far the better player of the two. I am glad that Asik is such a good low post defender, but he is pretty utterly useless in just about every other facet of the game. Also, for such a great defender, he sure doesn't block his share of shots.

Green is exactly the type of non-superstar every team would be happy to have. He is efficient, has the ability to take over a game, can guard the other team's best player, and is literally [at least] good at every aspect of the game of basketball.

If a deal goes down with Asik and we are trading Green, it will be a sad day in Boston. I say he is much more worth Humphries expiring and the LAC 1st than he is Green.

Yes I'm sure, and I will attempt to prove it.

Just because someone doesn't block shots does not mean he isn't a rim protector, if a big contests a shot at the rim causing the opponent to miss it is just as good as a block. This year, of  players with 5 or more shots at the rim defended a game, Asik is 6th in the NBA in percentage of shot made at the rim. He has better rim protection numbers than Dwight, Ibaka, Noah, Duncan, and Drummond.

The Celtics score .1 less point per 100 possession with Green on the court (compared to when he is not on the court), but they allow 2.4 less points per 100 possessions on defense with him on the court. So per 100 possessions he improves the Celtics by +2.3 points.

 Last year in a full time roll Asik's team scored +1.3 more per 100 possessions with him on the court and gave up 6.5 less points per 100 possession when he was on the court. So per 100 possessions Asik improved the Rockets by +7.8 points.

[Fafnir]

adjusted +/- or go home.

[fairweatherfan]

I look at this way:
which is easier to find in NBA??

A 7ft big that can clogged the paint, grab rebounds and play defense
vs
Inconsistent wing player that can drive and shoot 3s

Again I agree to certain extent, but if it was so easy to find a wing of Jeff Green's caliber why havent we done so yet. He averages 17 and 5 with 45% and 40% shooting. He's in the top ten of SF's in the league, he isnt exactly easily replaceable.

If Asik was a legit monster of a player then its a different story but Asik, in my mind, isn't exactly an All Star nba center. He's pretty great but I dont think his value is worth a player of Green's caliber.

Asik isn't an all star center and Green isn't an all star sf. Asik's value doesn't show up in the box score as much as Green, but the advanced numbers indicate that Asik is the better player.

And you're sure of this because???

Green is clearly by far the better player of the two.

Same question for your statement.

I'd rather not give up Green for Asik, and while I'm sure Danny covets Asik he's probably very reluctant to make that move too.  But it's less because of any major talent disparity than because of the giant hole we'd have at the 3.

We should be looking to move a big, whether it's Bass or Hump, to make room for Asik in the rotation.  If it's Green or bust, I'm ok with going bust.  Doubly so if it's Green + a 1st.

[Evantime34]

adjusted +/- or go home.

Was the in reference to my post? My +/- was per 100 possessions, that seems pretty adjusted to me.

[BleedGreen1989]

I look at this way:
which is easier to find in NBA??

A 7ft big that can clogged the paint, grab rebounds and play defense
vs
Inconsistent wing player that can drive and shoot 3s

Again I agree to certain extent, but if it was so easy to find a wing of Jeff Green's caliber why havent we done so yet. He averages 17 and 5 with 45% and 40% shooting. He's in the top ten of SF's in the league, he isnt exactly easily replaceable.

If Asik was a legit monster of a player then its a different story but Asik, in my mind, isn't exactly an All Star nba center. He's pretty great but I dont think his value is worth a player of Green's caliber.

Asik isn't an all star center and Green isn't an all star sf. Asik's value doesn't show up in the box score as much as Green, but the advanced numbers indicate that Asik is the better player.

And you're sure of this because???

Green is clearly by far the better player of the two. I am glad that Asik is such a good low post defender, but he is pretty utterly useless in just about every other facet of the game. Also, for such a great defender, he sure doesn't block his share of shots.

"I BLOCK A LOT OF SHOTS!"

[Fafnir]

adjusted +/- or go home.

Was the in reference to my post? My +/- was per 100 possessions, that seems pretty adjusted to me.

Yup and no they're not adjusted in the parlance of advanced stats.

Adjusted +/- uses regressions to control who you're on the court with, raw on/off numbers don't do that.

So If Asik sucks offensively (true story) on/off won't capture that because the vast majority of his minutes are with James Harden who's a beast offensively. Similar to how Sideshow Bob would have the best +/- in the nba when LBJ was in Cleveland because he basically shared the court with LBJ all the time.

Adjusted +/- last year has Asik as -.8 on offense and +5.4 (all per 100)

For Green its -1.4 on offense and 0 on defense.

Doesn't change your point, but raw on/off numbers are just inferior tools. We shouldn't use them.

[wdleehi]

Would a trade like this work  (where the Cavs send a 1st)

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=mxwbno4



The Celtics give up only one piece that could be part of their future in Green.  The 2nd big key to such a deal is that it cuts 5 million from the books this season.  Why could that be important?  It would allow the Celtics to use the TE they got from the Pierce trade without going into the tax level. 


Maybe they could get another young player.  Maybe they could take a contract off another team trying to save tax money for an extra draft pick. 

[Fafnir]

I look at this way:
which is easier to find in NBA??

A 7ft big that can clogged the paint, grab rebounds and play defense
vs
Inconsistent wing player that can drive and shoot 3s

Again I agree to certain extent, but if it was so easy to find a wing of Jeff Green's caliber why havent we done so yet. He averages 17 and 5 with 45% and 40% shooting. He's in the top ten of SF's in the league, he isnt exactly easily replaceable.

If Asik was a legit monster of a player then its a different story but Asik, in my mind, isn't exactly an All Star nba center. He's pretty great but I dont think his value is worth a player of Green's caliber.

Asik isn't an all star center and Green isn't an all star sf. Asik's value doesn't show up in the box score as much as Green, but the advanced numbers indicate that Asik is the better player.

And you're sure of this because???

Green is clearly by far the better player of the two.

Same question for your statement.

I'd rather not give up Green for Asik, and while I'm sure Danny covets Asik he's probably very reluctant to make that move too.  But it's less because of any major talent disparity than because of the giant hole we'd have at the 3.

We should be looking to move a big, whether it's Bass or Hump, to make room for Asik in the rotation.  If it's Green or bust, I'm ok with going bust.  Doubly so if it's Green + a 1st.

Pretty much where I'm at with this rumor.

[Evantime34]

adjusted +/- or go home.

Was the in reference to my post? My +/- was per 100 possessions, that seems pretty adjusted to me.

Yup and no they're not adjusted in the parlance of advanced stats.

Adjusted +/- uses regressions to control who you're on the court with, raw on/off numbers don't do that.

So If Asik sucks offensively (true story) on/off won't capture that because the vast majority of his minutes are with James Harden who's a beast offensively. Similar to how Sideshow Bob would have the best +/- in the nba when LBJ was in Cleveland because he basically shared the court with LBJ all the time.

Adjusted +/- last year has Asik as -.8 on offense and +5.4 (all per 100)

For Green its -1.4 on offense and 0 on defense.

Doesn't change your point, but raw on/off numbers are just inferior tools. We shouldn't use them.

Where do I find those numbers?

[ScoobyDoo]

1. Asik would be a good fit in Boston. Ainge has already had success with a defensive minded center, Rondo at the and scorers in the middle.

Asik
Sully, Olynyk, Green, Bradley, Crawford draft picks, free e agents
Rondo

2. Lopez, Drummond, Hibbert, Noah, Gortat, Bynum, Chandler

Probably another good 1-2 big men coming into the east in this year's draft as well.

3.
Asik / Faverani
Sully / Olynyk
Green / Gerald Wallace
Bradley / Bogans / Brooks
Rondo / Crawford / Pressey

I think that team could make a legitimate run in the east this year - we add draft picks and free agents from there.

Two trades that would make sense to me - for Houston - and that would also work for us:

Bass, Lee and a first round pick for Asik
* Houston needs an off guard and Bass is a very good mid range jump shooter to pari with Howard in the post.
* They get a first round pick

Humphries and 1-2 first round picks for Houston.
* Houston gets the draft picks they want
* Humphries can play back up center and power forward
* His contract expires at year end so they get major cap relief to sign Parsons and/or go after the best available off guard if they want.

If I were Houston I woudl seriously, seriously consider the Humphries trade because:

1. It would give me great cap flex to pursue another free agent of choice to pair with Harden and Howard at a position of need.

2. I get two draft picks - which I want so I can get cheap young talent on the team to develop while I'[m competing for titles

3. It gives me a versatile big amn I can put into my rotation at center and PF along with Terrence Jones, Smith, Howard & Valuncincius.
 
 

[tstorey_97]

I will continue:
Ainge offered a bag o'donuts for Asik. Rox said no. Ainge called other teams and offered a bang and a half of doughnuts. Rox said no.

Ainge doesn't want Asik that much. If he did? He'd have got him.

Ainge gains far more by waiting than pulling the trigger in mid December. His interest in Asik is based on the pressure the Rox are under to move him. If Ainge can't steal him? No deal.

This is how I justify why Ainge is in this deal in the first place. Why on earth would he spend one of his absolute best trade chips (Green) and spend it on this guy? This summer will offer the best FA class and best draft in recent memory and Ainge is going to "go for it" now?

Long shot.

[D.o.s.]

I do think Jeff is right on that Stein appears to be pushing Houston's narrative of the talks. Amazing how much posturing happens in the media.

Agreed. There is a lootttt of Dork Elvis love at ESPN. I think Stein also lives in Texas?

To be fair, I don't think these guys really purposely print stories as a favor to GMs they like.  They print stories for the GMs who feed them information to get clicks on their website.

Yes but... I've been to the MIT Sports conference. To watch the ESPN crew circle around Morey like giddy school kids is not to be believed.

It's very similar to the way young kids gather around famous athletes, actually.

I think a lot of sports reporters see themselves in Daryl Morey.

[NocturnalRebel]

I would much rather part with Bass than Green. It's reported tha Rockets have Bass included in their list of forwards they're interested in and looking at our roster it would make much more sense for us to part with Bass than Green if we're really front-runners for Asik.

Green is really our only legitimate Small Forward. Why give that up when we have Sully, Humphries, and Olynyk that can and do play at tha 4 spot. For us Bass is more replaceable than Green is. I mean Wallace can play some 3 too but is he more dependable than Green?

I like Wallace's efforts and I understand we really do need a center but I would much rather keep him on tha bench than see him takeover as our Small Forward when we have Sully whose been playing great basketball for us and is more than capable of taking over as our starting Power Forward.