Author Topic: Kings are putting together a package for Rondo  (Read 52505 times)

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Re: Kings are putting together a package for Rondo
« Reply #120 on: December 16, 2013, 04:40:28 PM »

Offline ScoobyDoo

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Got it with the X, Y and agree on the comparison game.


Re: Kings are putting together a package for Rondo
« Reply #121 on: December 16, 2013, 04:42:09 PM »

Offline BballTim

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I just can't talk myself into the idea of a 5'9 guard being the centerpiece of a successful NBA team.
me neither.  But 20 year old Mclemore and two 1sts for a fringe all-star PG who can't shoot?... that's an absolute haul.

   When you're talking about draft picks who might turn out to be all-stars someday you refer to them as franchise cornerstones, but you refer to someone who's made 4 straight all-star games as a fringe all-star. You somehow reversed those definitions in your head.

With the amount of great PGs in the NBA I highly question him getting half that many for the rest of his career.

  I spent much of the offseason hearing about how Rondo was unlikely to make any more all-star games because the other point guards were so great. Now we're seeing threads about how Jordon Crawford has a shot at being an all-star. If you've been here since 2008 or so you'd have seen numerous posts about how Rondo will never be (fill in the blank) unless he greatly improves his jump shot and ft%, with (fill in the blank) starting out as "anything other than a below average pg" and progressing through above average, having a chance at being an all-star and so on.

  Every time Rondo surpasses the previous "unattainable level" the "Rondo will never" crowd just moves on to the next prediction like nothing happened. Rondo's been in the league for quite some time. If he was as bad as his detractors imagine they'd be saying "Rondo has never done" all the time instead of saying "Rondo's unlikely to ever do" about things he's already done multiple times.

Well, let's not ignore facts though. Rondo was an injury replacement in 2012 (Joe Johnson) and was voted in by the fans last year, which the fan voting being a glorified popularity contest. Let's not act as though Rondo is a sure fire all-star. Many questioned him even being on the team last year because our record was so poor.

He stays in the East and he deals with Williams, Irving, and Wall. Goes to the West and it gets worse with Paul, Curry, Lillard, Parker, and Westbrook.

  Rondo was injured during much of the abbreviated voting in 2012, that's why he wasn't on the roster to begin with. Claiming that you shouldn't count a player's all-star appearances if they're voted in as starters? Hilarious.

Good point... calling him a "fringe all-star" isn't appropriate.   We should be calling him an "injury prone fringe all-star"

  I mentioned this before, but you refer to someone who's made the last 4 all-star teams a fringe all-star, but you refer to draft picks who might be all-stars someday as franchise cornerstones. The terms you're using don't really mean what you think they do.

Re: Kings are putting together a package for Rondo
« Reply #122 on: December 16, 2013, 04:47:31 PM »

Offline JSD

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No thanks. Rondo is a keeper and an Alpha Dog. He's the type of dude you build around. Especially right now while he's on an affordable contract and we have assets. We should be offering other teams similar packages for their stars not accepting the opposite. This is Celtics 2007 all over again. We have a star waiting in the wings while we collect chips to cash in.

Re: Kings are putting together a package for Rondo
« Reply #123 on: December 16, 2013, 04:48:46 PM »

Offline Jailan34

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I just can't talk myself into the idea of a 5'9 guard being the centerpiece of a successful NBA team.
me neither.  But 20 year old Mclemore and two 1sts for a fringe all-star PG who can't shoot?... that's an absolute haul.

   When you're talking about draft picks who might turn out to be all-stars someday you refer to them as franchise cornerstones, but you refer to someone who's made 4 straight all-star games as a fringe all-star. You somehow reversed those definitions in your head.

With the amount of great PGs in the NBA I highly question him getting half that many for the rest of his career.

  I spent much of the offseason hearing about how Rondo was unlikely to make any more all-star games because the other point guards were so great. Now we're seeing threads about how Jordon Crawford has a shot at being an all-star. If you've been here since 2008 or so you'd have seen numerous posts about how Rondo will never be (fill in the blank) unless he greatly improves his jump shot and ft%, with (fill in the blank) starting out as "anything other than a below average pg" and progressing through above average, having a chance at being an all-star and so on.

  Every time Rondo surpasses the previous "unattainable level" the "Rondo will never" crowd just moves on to the next prediction like nothing happened. Rondo's been in the league for quite some time. If he was as bad as his detractors imagine they'd be saying "Rondo has never done" all the time instead of saying "Rondo's unlikely to ever do" about things he's already done multiple times.

Well, let's not ignore facts though. Rondo was an injury replacement in 2012 (Joe Johnson) and was voted in by the fans last year, which the fan voting being a glorified popularity contest. Let's not act as though Rondo is a sure fire all-star. Many questioned him even being on the team last year because our record was so poor.

He stays in the East and he deals with Williams, Irving, and Wall. Goes to the West and it gets worse with Paul, Curry, Lillard, Parker, and Westbrook.

  Rondo was injured during much of the abbreviated voting in 2012, that's why he wasn't on the roster to begin with. Claiming that you shouldn't count a player's all-star appearances if they're voted in as starters? Hilarious.

Good point... calling him a "fringe all-star" isn't appropriate.   We should be calling him an "injury prone fringe all-star"

  I mentioned this before, but you refer to someone who's made the last 4 all-star teams a fringe all-star, but you refer to draft picks who might be all-stars someday as franchise cornerstones. The terms you're using don't really mean what you think they do.


Even if Rondo makes 8 all star teams staying at his career averages as they are doesn't improve his trade value, Rondos an exceptional passer who can score 13 a game over the course of a season.

Getting a prospect, salary cap relief and two 1st's for that kind of player is a great deal. Especially when hes coming off major surgery and in all likely hood will want a pay increase.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.

Re: Kings are putting together a package for Rondo
« Reply #124 on: December 16, 2013, 04:49:44 PM »

Offline Jailan34

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No thanks. Rondo is a keeper and an Alpha Dog. He's the type of dude you build around. Especially right now while he's on an affordable contract and we have assets. We should be offering other teams similar packages for their stars not accepting the opposite. This is Celtics 2007 all over again. We have a star waiting in the wings while we collect chips to cash in.

This is nothing like 2007, Rondo is not close to the player Pierce was and we don't have the same kind of assets we did in 2007. Rondo can't be a number one option with his limited scoring ability.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.

Re: Kings are putting together a package for Rondo
« Reply #125 on: December 16, 2013, 04:56:37 PM »

Offline Kane3387

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I just can't talk myself into the idea of a 5'9 guard being the centerpiece of a successful NBA team.
me neither.  But 20 year old Mclemore and two 1sts for a fringe all-star PG who can't shoot?... that's an absolute haul.

   When you're talking about draft picks who might turn out to be all-stars someday you refer to them as franchise cornerstones, but you refer to someone who's made 4 straight all-star games as a fringe all-star. You somehow reversed those definitions in your head.

With the amount of great PGs in the NBA I highly question him getting half that many for the rest of his career.

  I spent much of the offseason hearing about how Rondo was unlikely to make any more all-star games because the other point guards were so great. Now we're seeing threads about how Jordon Crawford has a shot at being an all-star. If you've been here since 2008 or so you'd have seen numerous posts about how Rondo will never be (fill in the blank) unless he greatly improves his jump shot and ft%, with (fill in the blank) starting out as "anything other than a below average pg" and progressing through above average, having a chance at being an all-star and so on.

  Every time Rondo surpasses the previous "unattainable level" the "Rondo will never" crowd just moves on to the next prediction like nothing happened. Rondo's been in the league for quite some time. If he was as bad as his detractors imagine they'd be saying "Rondo has never done" all the time instead of saying "Rondo's unlikely to ever do" about things he's already done multiple times.

Well, let's not ignore facts though. Rondo was an injury replacement in 2012 (Joe Johnson) and was voted in by the fans last year, which the fan voting being a glorified popularity contest. Let's not act as though Rondo is a sure fire all-star. Many questioned him even being on the team last year because our record was so poor.

He stays in the East and he deals with Williams, Irving, and Wall. Goes to the West and it gets worse with Paul, Curry, Lillard, Parker, and Westbrook.

  Rondo was injured during much of the abbreviated voting in 2012, that's why he wasn't on the roster to begin with. Claiming that you shouldn't count a player's all-star appearances if they're voted in as starters? Hilarious.

Good point... calling him a "fringe all-star" isn't appropriate.   We should be calling him an "injury prone fringe all-star"

  I mentioned this before, but you refer to someone who's made the last 4 all-star teams a fringe all-star, but you refer to draft picks who might be all-stars someday as franchise cornerstones. The terms you're using don't really mean what you think they do.


Even if Rondo makes 8 all star teams staying at his career averages as they are doesn't improve his trade value, Rondos an exceptional passer who can score 13 a game over the course of a season.

Getting a prospect, salary cap relief and two 1st's for that kind of player is a great deal. Especially when hes coming off major surgery and in all likely hood will want a pay increase.

Assuming rondo is back to pre injury status then he's an all star and arguably a perennial all star. That's what four times in a row playing in that game is.

Jeff green is a fringe all star.

Regardless he's coming off an ACL and when he's 29 he wants a max deal. I hate to give a guy beating the end of his prime a max deal period. Let alone with an ACL. I worry how effective he can be when he is no longer more athletic then his opponents. Jason Kidd did it tho. A bad knee injury, a shaky shot, and was still elite so it can happen.

Still a lotto pick in this draft is great with the other assets you're netting as well and the removal of Wallace.


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Re: Kings are putting together a package for Rondo
« Reply #126 on: December 16, 2013, 05:01:10 PM »

Offline Diggles

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http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1290961

Didn't see this posted on the forums , sry if there is already a thread

Sac is prepared to offer Isah Thomas, Maclemore, Thorton,Thompson and two 1st rd picks for Rondo and Wallace

Thoughts?

Its a strong offer, but I am not completely sold on Maclmore, how good will he be?

If we could send Thornton/ to Houston for their Asik. and two seconds...
Diggles

Re: Kings are putting together a package for Rondo
« Reply #127 on: December 16, 2013, 05:01:41 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Regardless he's coming off an ACL and when he's 29 he wants a max deal. I hate to give a guy beating the end of his prime a max deal period. Let alone with an ACL. I worry how effective he can be when he is no longer more athletic then his opponents. Jason Kidd did it tho. A bad knee injury, a shaky shot, and was still elite so it can happen.
I feel that getting others involved is one skill that may age well, so to say. Also, I'm hoping that his shot has improved over a recovery period where his drills must have been limited to taking a billion set shots.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: Kings are putting together a package for Rondo
« Reply #128 on: December 16, 2013, 05:06:15 PM »

Offline Jailan34

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Regardless he's coming off an ACL and when he's 29 he wants a max deal. I hate to give a guy beating the end of his prime a max deal period. Let alone with an ACL. I worry how effective he can be when he is no longer more athletic then his opponents. Jason Kidd did it tho. A bad knee injury, a shaky shot, and was still elite so it can happen.
I feel that getting others involved is one skill that may age well, so to say. Also, I'm hoping that his shot has improved over a recovery period where his drills must have been limited to taking a billion set shots.

I love rondo, but we've been hoping for the same thing from him since we traded for him on draft night. I think he is what he is, I'd love if he could mimic Kidd and improve his shot, but that still won't make him worth the deal he will be seeking after next season.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.

Re: Kings are putting together a package for Rondo
« Reply #129 on: December 16, 2013, 05:11:33 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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I just can't talk myself into the idea of a 5'9 guard being the centerpiece of a successful NBA team.
me neither.  But 20 year old Mclemore and two 1sts for a fringe all-star PG who can't shoot?... that's an absolute haul.

   When you're talking about draft picks who might turn out to be all-stars someday you refer to them as franchise cornerstones, but you refer to someone who's made 4 straight all-star games as a fringe all-star. You somehow reversed those definitions in your head.

With the amount of great PGs in the NBA I highly question him getting half that many for the rest of his career.

  I spent much of the offseason hearing about how Rondo was unlikely to make any more all-star games because the other point guards were so great. Now we're seeing threads about how Jordon Crawford has a shot at being an all-star. If you've been here since 2008 or so you'd have seen numerous posts about how Rondo will never be (fill in the blank) unless he greatly improves his jump shot and ft%, with (fill in the blank) starting out as "anything other than a below average pg" and progressing through above average, having a chance at being an all-star and so on.

  Every time Rondo surpasses the previous "unattainable level" the "Rondo will never" crowd just moves on to the next prediction like nothing happened. Rondo's been in the league for quite some time. If he was as bad as his detractors imagine they'd be saying "Rondo has never done" all the time instead of saying "Rondo's unlikely to ever do" about things he's already done multiple times.

Well, let's not ignore facts though. Rondo was an injury replacement in 2012 (Joe Johnson) and was voted in by the fans last year, which the fan voting being a glorified popularity contest. Let's not act as though Rondo is a sure fire all-star. Many questioned him even being on the team last year because our record was so poor.

He stays in the East and he deals with Williams, Irving, and Wall. Goes to the West and it gets worse with Paul, Curry, Lillard, Parker, and Westbrook.

  Rondo was injured during much of the abbreviated voting in 2012, that's why he wasn't on the roster to begin with. Claiming that you shouldn't count a player's all-star appearances if they're voted in as starters? Hilarious.

I didn't say you shouldn't count them, but on many occasions the player was not deserving and they were popularity contests. This applied in Rondo's case last season. And it did in many years with Iverson, Yao, McGrady, Magic (HIV year), etc.

Tim, it's really great to have heroes. It makes you ignore the negative and accentuate the positive. However, that blindness  8) is what makes you have these constant Rondo debates with other posters. I do like Rondo, just not at the same extent you do (honestly your devotion is hard to top), but I am a realist and see the player for what he is. There are a lot of Tim's out there. There's one in New Orleans talking about Holiday. There's one in Minnesota ranting about Rubio. Hell, there is probably even someone in Miami hyping up Chalmers. It doesn't mean any of you are actually right. It just means that you've lost a grip on reality.

Rondo's a top 10 PG, he's had some great playoff moments, and he's a great passer. However, teams still don't respect his shot, he's a liability at the free throw line, he gambles too much defensively, and he's coming off of knee surgery. And you know what? It's ok to admit it, man.

Re: Kings are putting together a package for Rondo
« Reply #130 on: December 16, 2013, 05:13:14 PM »

Offline JSD

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No thanks. Rondo is a keeper and an Alpha Dog. He's the type of dude you build around. Especially right now while he's on an affordable contract and we have assets. We should be offering other teams similar packages for their stars not accepting the opposite. This is Celtics 2007 all over again. We have a star waiting in the wings while we collect chips to cash in.

This is nothing like 2007, Rondo is not close to the player Pierce was and we don't have the same kind of assets we did in 2007. Rondo can't be a number one option with his limited scoring ability.

Breakdown the accolades between a 27 year old Pierce to a 27 year old Rondo, then tell me it's not close... You’re simply wrong on that. It is very close. I agree we need a scorer, but the scorer doesn’t NEED to be the alpha dog.

We had a high end big man prospect in Al Jefferson in 2007 and multiple mid-grade prospects to go along with an $11 million expiring.

Now we have a mid/high end big man prospect in Sully and multiple mid-grade prospect plus a few of first round picks and a $12 million expiring.

The situations are very similar.

Re: Kings are putting together a package for Rondo
« Reply #131 on: December 16, 2013, 05:17:58 PM »

Offline Jailan34

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No thanks. Rondo is a keeper and an Alpha Dog. He's the type of dude you build around. Especially right now while he's on an affordable contract and we have assets. We should be offering other teams similar packages for their stars not accepting the opposite. This is Celtics 2007 all over again. We have a star waiting in the wings while we collect chips to cash in.

This is nothing like 2007, Rondo is not close to the player Pierce was and we don't have the same kind of assets we did in 2007. Rondo can't be a number one option with his limited scoring ability.

Breakdown the accolades between a 27 year old Pierce to a 27 year old Rondo, then tell me it's not close... You’re simply wrong on that. It is very close. I agree we need a scorer, but the scorer doesn’t NEED to be the alpha dog.

We had a high end big man prospect in Al Jefferson in 2007 and multiple mid-grade prospects to go along with an $11 million expiring.

Now we have a mid/high end big man prospect in Sully and multiple mid-grade prospect plus a few of first round picks and a $12 million expiring.

The situations are very similar.


If you think a 27 year old Pierce, and a 27 year old rondo are similar players idk what to tell you man, Pierce was a guy you could build a team around, rondo isn't. Elite scorers like Pierce are just plain more valuable than elite passers like rondo.

Also in 2007 we had the 5th overall pick, this year we'd be lucky to get the 10th. Just because you think sully equals al jefferson doesn't mean this is anything like 2007.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.

Re: Kings are putting together a package for Rondo
« Reply #132 on: December 16, 2013, 05:18:06 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Regardless he's coming off an ACL and when he's 29 he wants a max deal. I hate to give a guy beating the end of his prime a max deal period. Let alone with an ACL. I worry how effective he can be when he is no longer more athletic then his opponents. Jason Kidd did it tho. A bad knee injury, a shaky shot, and was still elite so it can happen.
I feel that getting others involved is one skill that may age well, so to say. Also, I'm hoping that his shot has improved over a recovery period where his drills must have been limited to taking a billion set shots.

I love rondo, but we've been hoping for the same thing from him since we traded for him on draft night. I think he is what he is, I'd love if he could mimic Kidd and improve his shot, but that still won't make him worth the deal he will be seeking after next season.
No, up to now we've been hoping that we can see shot improvement after summer work that was often severely abbreviated by deep playoff runs.

This time, he has had a year where he has been limited to shooting drills just because he had to save the knee. It's not much, but it may be different.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: Kings are putting together a package for Rondo
« Reply #133 on: December 16, 2013, 05:21:13 PM »

Offline EJPLAYA

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There is a big possibility that Rondo either takes off when he becomes a free agent because someone will offer him huge money, OR he will sign a big contract and decline rapidly which may even be worse. He relies so heavily on his athleticism to produce that an aging Rondo will be kind of like an aging Pierce. Flashes of former skill levels, but done for the most part. There is also no guarantee that he will return from this injury to the level he was before. Or that he won't quickly re-injure himself like Rose did.

If you can get this kind of a package including a couple draft picks you do it in a heartbeat. Those tons of draft picks can be paired together to trade up in the draft a few spots if needed. They also can be paired with young talent in a trade. This would be a great option for us and allow Danny to wheel and deal.

Re: Kings are putting together a package for Rondo
« Reply #134 on: December 16, 2013, 05:35:16 PM »

Offline MBunge

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Rondo's a top 10 PG

Well, more like a top 5 PG in an era of some really great PGs.

And the thing to remember about Rondo is he's spent his entire career playing in a straight jacket with Doc's walk-it-up, grind-it-out offense that was entirely designed to get shots for KG and Pierce.  This is the first time in his career when Rondo's really going to be able to run a team like CP3 and other top point guards do.

Mike