Rumor: Cs passed on PP & 1st for Smith

[ssspence]

Thanks, Roy.

To me, rumor like this confirm my doubts about the Cs willingness to pay out PP next year.

[tonyto3690]

If Pierce hadn't been playing at such a ridiculously high level lately (25-7-7 on a consistent basis), I wouldn't have been surprised at all to see him gone.  Honestly, I wouldn't have been too upset either.  He's one of the greatest Celtics ever, but he's not going to be playing for us in 5 years (or maybe even next year).  Josh Smith is a young star with massive upside who would give us a real PF and allow Green to finally start.


However, this isn't NBA2k13 and I'm sure KG would have been livid and to trade your captain and team catalyst is a surefire way of killing the teams season.  KG would likely retire at seasons end and we'd be forced to resign Smith at a max contract (because he would very well know we were committed to him and would have to blow the load on him). 

In a vacuum it's a pretty good deal, but looking at the whole situation I'm happy we stayed put.  Give Pierce and KG their punchers shot at Lebron and Wade. 

[CelticG1]

I can undeerstand people wanting to do this deal.

I cant understand people wanting to do this deal for either a one year rental or for long tetm huge deal for smith. You talking about a Rondo type contract im game but if you are makinghim our highedt paid player? Well thats just frightening

[clover]

If Pierce hadn't been playing at such a ridiculously high level lately (25-7-7 on a consistent basis), I wouldn't have been surprised at all to see him gone.  Honestly, I wouldn't have been too upset either.  He's one of the greatest Celtics ever, but he's not going to be playing for us in 5 years (or maybe even next year).  Josh Smith is a young star with massive upside who would give us a real PF and allow Green to finally start.


However, this isn't NBA2k13 and I'm sure KG would have been livid and to trade your captain and team catalyst is a surefire way of killing the teams season.  KG would likely retire at seasons end and we'd be forced to resign Smith at a max contract (because he would very well know we were committed to him and would have to blow the load on him). 

In a vacuum it's a pretty good deal, but looking at the whole situation I'm happy we stayed put.  Give Pierce and KG their punchers shot at Lebron and Wade.

The deal IMO would only have made sense if it were the final piece to get Bledsoe and Jordan for KG.  Then it would have been a steal--even if they'd let Smith walk after the year.

[CelticG1]

Ha just heard Cedric Maxwells brilliant quote on Josh Smith:

He keeps both teams in the game

[BballTim]

If Pierce hadn't been playing at such a ridiculously high level lately (25-7-7 on a consistent basis), I wouldn't have been surprised at all to see him gone.  Honestly, I wouldn't have been too upset either.  He's one of the greatest Celtics ever, but he's not going to be playing for us in 5 years (or maybe even next year).  Josh Smith is a young star with massive upside who would give us a real PF and allow Green to finally start.

  Smith's been in the league for 8-9 years. There's no upside, only the hope that he starts playing smarter ball. When we played the Hawks last spring I'd watch those first quarters hoping Smith would knock down his first few jumpers because that would lead to a bad shot selection in the second half of the game. If you could somehow knock the "Antoine" out of him he could be a great player.

[hpantazo]

If Pierce hadn't been playing at such a ridiculously high level lately (25-7-7 on a consistent basis), I wouldn't have been surprised at all to see him gone.  Honestly, I wouldn't have been too upset either.  He's one of the greatest Celtics ever, but he's not going to be playing for us in 5 years (or maybe even next year).  Josh Smith is a young star with massive upside who would give us a real PF and allow Green to finally start.

  Smith's been in the league for 8-9 years. There's no upside, only the hope that he starts playing smarter ball. When we played the Hawks last spring I'd watch those first quarters hoping Smith would knock down his first few jumpers because that would lead to a bad shot selection in the second half of the game. If you could somehow knock the "Antoine" out of him he could be a great player.

This is exactly what I've been saying in this thread, TP.

Smith is Antoine Walker 2.0. He's been in the league almost 10 years now, and he has never been an all-star. There is no "upside". He is what he is, he's just going to lose athleticism from here on out.

Yet, some people here still think he's 22 and a perennial all-star who the hawks should get a package of quality young starters and draft picks for, even though he's leaving in a couple of months anyway. Go figure.

[BballTim]

If Pierce hadn't been playing at such a ridiculously high level lately (25-7-7 on a consistent basis), I wouldn't have been surprised at all to see him gone.  Honestly, I wouldn't have been too upset either.  He's one of the greatest Celtics ever, but he's not going to be playing for us in 5 years (or maybe even next year).  Josh Smith is a young star with massive upside who would give us a real PF and allow Green to finally start.

  Smith's been in the league for 8-9 years. There's no upside, only the hope that he starts playing smarter ball. When we played the Hawks last spring I'd watch those first quarters hoping Smith would knock down his first few jumpers because that would lead to a bad shot selection in the second half of the game. If you could somehow knock the "Antoine" out of him he could be a great player.

This is exactly what I've been saying in this thread, TP.

Smith is Antoine Walker 2.0. He's been in the league almost 10 years now, and he has never been an all-star. There is no "upside". He is what he is, he's just going to lose athleticism from here on out.

Yet, some people here still think he's 22 and a perennial all-star who the hawks should get a package of quality young starters and draft picks for, even though he's leaving in a couple of months anyway. Go figure.

  Haha. I spent last summer in discussions about Smith where people would talk about how young all-star bigs rarely become available. When I'd point out how far into his career he was without ever being an all-star they'd say that he should have been last year and assure me that he'd be one in the 12-13 season. Not that I'd necessarily mind having him, but more for something like Bass/Lee than PP, and not for a max contract.

[crimson_stallion]

If Pierce hadn't been playing at such a ridiculously high level lately (25-7-7 on a consistent basis), I wouldn't have been surprised at all to see him gone.  Honestly, I wouldn't have been too upset either.  He's one of the greatest Celtics ever, but he's not going to be playing for us in 5 years (or maybe even next year).  Josh Smith is a young star with massive upside who would give us a real PF and allow Green to finally start.

  Smith's been in the league for 8-9 years. There's no upside, only the hope that he starts playing smarter ball. When we played the Hawks last spring I'd watch those first quarters hoping Smith would knock down his first few jumpers because that would lead to a bad shot selection in the second half of the game. If you could somehow knock the "Antoine" out of him he could be a great player.

This is exactly what I've been saying in this thread, TP.

Smith is Antoine Walker 2.0. He's been in the league almost 10 years now, and he has never been an all-star. There is no "upside". He is what he is, he's just going to lose athleticism from here on out.

Yet, some people here still think he's 22 and a perennial all-star who the hawks should get a package of quality young starters and draft picks for, even though he's leaving in a couple of months anyway. Go figure.

  Haha. I spent last summer in discussions about Smith where people would talk about how young all-star bigs rarely become available. When I'd point out how far into his career he was without ever being an all-star they'd say that he should have been last year and assure me that he'd be one in the 12-13 season. Not that I'd necessarily mind having him, but more for something like Bass/Lee than PP, and not for a max contract.

They are right, he should have been.

Smith is an All-Star CALIBRE player.  He probably should have been an All Star this season too. 

Look at Paul George.  Smith can match George's athleticism, but he's bigger, stronger and putting up better numbers.  Hes also put up those numbers very consistently since he entered the league, while George has only done so this one season.  Smith should have had that spot over George, but do be it.

Smith has the talent to be one of the top players in the league if his head got in line.  When you are limited by your talent then there's only so far you can go (see: Brandon Bass).  When you are limited only by your attitude, then a chance of sceneryay be all you need to turn you from a talented bonehead to a top level talent.  Just ask Zach Randolf.

[GreenFaith1819]

Thank God that didn't go through.

As much as I love Josh Smith, I'd rather Paul Pierce retire as a Celtic.

He deserves that, as does KG.

I'm hoping Josh just signs with us in the off-season somehow...I'm thinking salaries may be an impediment, but hopefully something can be worked out.

[BballTim]

If Pierce hadn't been playing at such a ridiculously high level lately (25-7-7 on a consistent basis), I wouldn't have been surprised at all to see him gone.  Honestly, I wouldn't have been too upset either.  He's one of the greatest Celtics ever, but he's not going to be playing for us in 5 years (or maybe even next year).  Josh Smith is a young star with massive upside who would give us a real PF and allow Green to finally start.

  Smith's been in the league for 8-9 years. There's no upside, only the hope that he starts playing smarter ball. When we played the Hawks last spring I'd watch those first quarters hoping Smith would knock down his first few jumpers because that would lead to a bad shot selection in the second half of the game. If you could somehow knock the "Antoine" out of him he could be a great player.

This is exactly what I've been saying in this thread, TP.

Smith is Antoine Walker 2.0. He's been in the league almost 10 years now, and he has never been an all-star. There is no "upside". He is what he is, he's just going to lose athleticism from here on out.

Yet, some people here still think he's 22 and a perennial all-star who the hawks should get a package of quality young starters and draft picks for, even though he's leaving in a couple of months anyway. Go figure.

  Haha. I spent last summer in discussions about Smith where people would talk about how young all-star bigs rarely become available. When I'd point out how far into his career he was without ever being an all-star they'd say that he should have been last year and assure me that he'd be one in the 12-13 season. Not that I'd necessarily mind having him, but more for something like Bass/Lee than PP, and not for a max contract.

They are right, he should have been.

Smith is an All-Star CALIBRE player.  He probably should have been an All Star this season too. 

Look at Paul George.  Smith can match George's athleticism, but he's bigger, stronger and putting up better numbers.  Hes also put up those numbers very consistently since he entered the league, while George has only done so this one season.  Smith should have had that spot over George, but do be it.

Smith has the talent to be one of the top players in the league if his head got in line.  When you are limited by your talent then there's only so far you can go (see: Brandon Bass).  When you are limited only by your attitude, then a chance of sceneryay be all you need to turn you from a talented bonehead to a top level talent.  Just ask Zach Randolf.

  He's putting up similar numbers to George: http://bkref.com/tiny/sKhjI

  The fact that his head hasn't "got in line" yet tip the scales to George, who probably doesn't hurt his team as much late in games with poor decision making/shot selection. I agree his issues can probably be fixed, but he's the player that he is, not the player he could/should be, hence the lack of all-star selections.

[hpantazo]

If Pierce hadn't been playing at such a ridiculously high level lately (25-7-7 on a consistent basis), I wouldn't have been surprised at all to see him gone.  Honestly, I wouldn't have been too upset either.  He's one of the greatest Celtics ever, but he's not going to be playing for us in 5 years (or maybe even next year).  Josh Smith is a young star with massive upside who would give us a real PF and allow Green to finally start.

  Smith's been in the league for 8-9 years. There's no upside, only the hope that he starts playing smarter ball. When we played the Hawks last spring I'd watch those first quarters hoping Smith would knock down his first few jumpers because that would lead to a bad shot selection in the second half of the game. If you could somehow knock the "Antoine" out of him he could be a great player.

This is exactly what I've been saying in this thread, TP.

Smith is Antoine Walker 2.0. He's been in the league almost 10 years now, and he has never been an all-star. There is no "upside". He is what he is, he's just going to lose athleticism from here on out.

Yet, some people here still think he's 22 and a perennial all-star who the hawks should get a package of quality young starters and draft picks for, even though he's leaving in a couple of months anyway. Go figure.

  Haha. I spent last summer in discussions about Smith where people would talk about how young all-star bigs rarely become available. When I'd point out how far into his career he was without ever being an all-star they'd say that he should have been last year and assure me that he'd be one in the 12-13 season. Not that I'd necessarily mind having him, but more for something like Bass/Lee than PP, and not for a max contract.

They are right, he should have been.

Smith is an All-Star CALIBRE player.  He probably should have been an All Star this season too. 

Look at Paul George.  Smith can match George's athleticism, but he's bigger, stronger and putting up better numbers.  Hes also put up those numbers very consistently since he entered the league, while George has only done so this one season.  Smith should have had that spot over George, but do be it.

Smith has the talent to be one of the top players in the league if his head got in line.  When you are limited by your talent then there's only so far you can go (see: Brandon Bass).  When you are limited only by your attitude, then a chance of sceneryay be all you need to turn you from a talented bonehead to a top level talent.  Just ask Zach Randolf.

  He's putting up similar numbers to George: http://bkref.com/tiny/sKhjI

  The fact that his head hasn't "got in line" yet tip the scales to George, who probably doesn't hurt his team as much late in games with poor decision making/shot selection. I agree his issues can probably be fixed, but he's the player that he is, not the player he could/should be, hence the lack of all-star selections.

even Glen Davis put up great numbers on a poor team. Should he be an all-star?

George did it on a very good Pacer's team. Huge difference. If Josh Smith ever puts up those numbers on a contender then we can talk about him deserving to be an all-star.

Btw, has there ever been a player who made their fist all-star team in their 10th season or later? Next year is JSmoove's 10th.

[hpantazo]

If Pierce hadn't been playing at such a ridiculously high level lately (25-7-7 on a consistent basis), I wouldn't have been surprised at all to see him gone.  Honestly, I wouldn't have been too upset either.  He's one of the greatest Celtics ever, but he's not going to be playing for us in 5 years (or maybe even next year).  Josh Smith is a young star with massive upside who would give us a real PF and allow Green to finally start.

  Smith's been in the league for 8-9 years. There's no upside, only the hope that he starts playing smarter ball. When we played the Hawks last spring I'd watch those first quarters hoping Smith would knock down his first few jumpers because that would lead to a bad shot selection in the second half of the game. If you could somehow knock the "Antoine" out of him he could be a great player.

This is exactly what I've been saying in this thread, TP.

Smith is Antoine Walker 2.0. He's been in the league almost 10 years now, and he has never been an all-star. There is no "upside". He is what he is, he's just going to lose athleticism from here on out.

Yet, some people here still think he's 22 and a perennial all-star who the hawks should get a package of quality young starters and draft picks for, even though he's leaving in a couple of months anyway. Go figure.

  Haha. I spent last summer in discussions about Smith where people would talk about how young all-star bigs rarely become available. When I'd point out how far into his career he was without ever being an all-star they'd say that he should have been last year and assure me that he'd be one in the 12-13 season. Not that I'd necessarily mind having him, but more for something like Bass/Lee than PP, and not for a max contract.

They are right, he should have been.

Smith is an All-Star CALIBRE player.  He probably should have been an All Star this season too. 

Look at Paul George.  Smith can match George's athleticism, but he's bigger, stronger and putting up better numbers.  Hes also put up those numbers very consistently since he entered the league, while George has only done so this one season.  Smith should have had that spot over George, but do be it.

Smith has the talent to be one of the top players in the league if his head got in line.  When you are limited by your talent then there's only so far you can go (see: Brandon Bass).  When you are limited only by your attitude, then a chance of sceneryay be all you need to turn you from a talented bonehead to a top level talent.  Just ask Zach Randolf.

  He's putting up similar numbers to George: http://bkref.com/tiny/sKhjI

  The fact that his head hasn't "got in line" yet tip the scales to George, who probably doesn't hurt his team as much late in games with poor decision making/shot selection. I agree his issues can probably be fixed, but he's the player that he is, not the player he could/should be, hence the lack of all-star selections.

even Glen Davis put up great numbers on a poor team. Should he be an all-star?

George did it on a very good Pacer's team. Huge difference. If Josh Smith ever puts up those numbers on a contender then we can talk about him deserving to be an all-star.

Btw, has there ever been a player who made their fist all-star team in their 10th season or later? Next year is JSmoove's 10th.

Chandler is the oldest, at 30 in his 12th season, to make his first all-star team. I wouldn't exactly build the team around someone like that as a max player, would you?

What did NY trade for Chandler? Ronnie Turiaf and a 2nd round pick.

[LooseCannon]

The Warriors would have been a great landing spot for Pierce (it'd be nice to send him to a team that could contend rather than a sub .500 ball club)

I'd argue that if you trade Pierce, you should trade him to a team that can give you a good draft pick in return...and teams that could contend are unlikely to be able to give you that pick.

That's completely true, but also teams that can't contend aren't going to send you a lottery pick for Pierce. Doesn't make sense for them to take on so much salary, give up a solid pick only to win a few more games and still probably miss the playoffs.

Instead the best thing that they could probably do would be to trade Pierce to a contender in exchange a young guy who was recently drafted with a top pick (Barnes and Thompson, were both lottery picks the last 2 years). You lose one or 2 years of their rookie contracts, but their development is further along, you have a better chance of gauging whether they will fullfil their potential and you might actually find a team willing to give one up if it will make them better for the playoffs.

My scenario for trading Pierce involves looking for a team that has a contract bad enough that they are willing to give up a lottery pick to trade it for Pierce's shorter contract.

So, I am basically interested in trading Pierce only if the team looks like a non-contender for a few years and I don't care if a decent chunk of the payroll is tied up in a bad contract for the next 3 years.

[LooseCannon]

Here' another report on Josh Smith (item 2).

What's indisputable is that the Hawks, given their druthers, had hoped to send Smith to the Western Conference if they found a workable trade. Sources say that Dallas was among the teams that rejected those overtures, with the Mavs unwilling to add a draft pick to a package that would have cost them Vince Carter and Chris Kaman's expiring contract in addition to rookie Jae Crowder and the expiring deals of Brandan Wright and Dahntay Jones.

Since Dallas was reported to be receiving Pierce in the proposed three-way, I wonder if the Mavs ever talked to Ainge about Pierce for Jae Crowder, Chris Kaman, and stuff and what kind of "stuff" Ainge would want to consider that trade.