Rumor: Cs passed on PP & 1st for Smith

[LarBrd33]

So, in theory, the deal could possibly have netted us Josh Smith, and additionally made dealing KG to LA plausible.

We'd have been left with (potentially) Jordan, Smith, Sullinger, Green, Lee, Bradley, Bledsoe, Rondo as our core.  Plus whatever we could have gotten for Terry.

As much as I am loathe to trading Pierce/KG, that would have been a pretty solid core to move forward with.

Thing is... this current team would beat that team... and that team wouldn't contend for a title.  Boston only ever goes as far as KG and Pierce takes them.  It's been that way since 07-08 and nothing has changed... not even Rondo's big playoff stats.  It's still KG and Pierce who are the driving-force of any possible title contention. 

[LooseCannon]

Smith is a very good player.  32/8/8 tonight and solid defense.  Yeah, he made some baffling plays at the end, but Smith shouldn't be asked to do as much as he has to.  Why the Hawks run the offense through him from the perimeter as much as they do is beyond me.  Mostly, it is just bad coaching/lack of leadership. That would never happen here.

I just don't think Josh Smith would want to go somewhere where he has a much smaller role on offense.  I think he is the sort to pout if he doesn't get to be "the man" with the ball in his hands at the end of the game.  He probably needs to go to another team for a few years to acquire the maturity needed to get to that next level.

[crimson_stallion]

Smith is a very good player.  32/8/8 tonight and solid defense.  Yeah, he made some baffling plays at the end, but Smith shouldn't be asked to do as much as he has to.  Why the Hawks run the offense through him from the perimeter as much as they do is beyond me.  Mostly, it is just bad coaching/lack of leadership. That would never happen here.

I just don't think Josh Smith would want to go somewhere where he has a much smaller role on offense.  I think he is the sort to pout if he doesn't get to be "the man" with the ball in his hands at the end of the game.  He probably needs to go to another team for a few years to acquire the maturity needed to get to that next level.

I don't see anything in Smith's past to suggest this. 

He has never really been a true 'first option' in Atlanta - more like an equal first option or second option - and he's already stated that he'd love to play with Rondo in Boston.

Also if we got Smith he WOULD be our first option once Pierce and KG retire.

[guava_wrench]

So, in theory, the deal could possibly have netted us Josh Smith, and additionally made dealing KG to LA plausible.

We'd have been left with (potentially) Jordan, Smith, Sullinger, Green, Lee, Bradley, Bledsoe, Rondo as our core.  Plus whatever we could have gotten for Terry.

As much as I am loathe to trading Pierce/KG, that would have been a pretty solid core to move forward with.

Thing is... this current team would beat that team... and that team wouldn't contend for a title.  Boston only ever goes as far as KG and Pierce takes them.  It's been that way since 07-08 and nothing has changed... not even Rondo's big playoff stats.  It's still KG and Pierce who are the driving-force of any possible title contention.

And if that last sentence is true, perhaps that is why we are not contenders. If they don't have enough left to drive, your argument doesn't really say anything.

We clearly would better compete 2 years from now with that deal than our changes 2 years from now after passing on the deal.

[guava_wrench]

Also if we got Smith he WOULD be our first option once Pierce and KG retire.

Well, Pierce would have been out of town and KG has no interest in being the first option.

[guava_wrench]

Was just going to post this

Beat you to it for once!

HaHa
Like the article says, do you think they go back to the trade talks in the summer?

Is it possible to make a deal before deciding about Pierce's team option?

[pearljammer10]

terrible deal for atlanta. as much as i want josh smith pierce and a first is way over paying for him. no way.

[LooseCannon]

Smith is a very good player.  32/8/8 tonight and solid defense.  Yeah, he made some baffling plays at the end, but Smith shouldn't be asked to do as much as he has to.  Why the Hawks run the offense through him from the perimeter as much as they do is beyond me.  Mostly, it is just bad coaching/lack of leadership. That would never happen here.

I just don't think Josh Smith would want to go somewhere where he has a much smaller role on offense.  I think he is the sort to pout if he doesn't get to be "the man" with the ball in his hands at the end of the game.  He probably needs to go to another team for a few years to acquire the maturity needed to get to that next level.

I don't see anything in Smith's past to suggest this. 

He has never really been a true 'first option' in Atlanta - more like an equal first option or second option - and he's already stated that he'd love to play with Rondo in Boston.

Also if we got Smith he WOULD be our first option once Pierce and KG retire.

Josh Smith seems to want to be a clear first option and to be paid like a superstar who is the first option on offense.  What he seems to crave most of all is recognition as an All-Star.  The appeal of Boston for him is probably more that it is a big market that will give him the spotlight he may think he needs for that to happen, but he may want to go somewhere else where he has a better shot of being able to score 20ppg. 

Smith has also been reported as wanting to leave Atlanta because he is tired of his shot selection being criticized by coaches, media, and fans, so playing in Boston for Doc Rivers strikes me as poor option towards that goal.

[LooseCannon]

Was just going to post this

Beat you to it for once!

HaHa
Like the article says, do you think they go back to the trade talks in the summer?

Is it possible to make a deal before deciding about Pierce's team option?

You can't trade a player whose contract could end due to an option.  If it is a team option, the team can invoke the option, then trade the player.

[krook]

a team with a veteran players is a + factor, kg is still good for me even next year, pierce still got it… if you don’t believe and this team, and you think pierce and kg should be traded, then you are not a celtics fans, there is a thing called rebuilding, i agree with that, but as reggie miller said, let them retire then that is the time to rebuild, trading kg means saying there are way too old, kg is the most respected threat as pf/c in this league, and about the gay and pierce, pierce anytime anyday,

the line-up you stated is that a contender team? NO!
the line-up next year with kg and pierce are contender? YES!
as long as we got 2 veterans we are still a contender….

man josh smith hits too many badshots
jordan can give you average below 10 rebounds and scores
rondo hogs the ball,
terry has an upside down roller coaster thing
who motivates this team? rondo? smith?
who can give you 20+ points a game?
stop talking about smith coming here
i stick on jeff green besides he can contain lebron 1 on 1
josh smith is a weak shot blocker
perimeter 1 on 1 defender
as this line-up right now
with the last piece, released randolph and sign a bigman that plays even 5 min below
and bledsoe and rondo can’t battle in minutes…so bledsoe might be traded too
this is not rebuilding
this team will be like cleveland or wizards team
if you don’t trust this team, go route other teams
and whoever says round 1 exit, shame on you guys
we can beat the heat,
i don’t care about those tickets without kg and pierce
what matters to me is winning, yes that line-up is a winning team but again not a contending team
crawford lee bradley sully are all playing good because of our veteran teams, they motivate new comers in this teams, take out kg and this team will break down
and im sure one of you will say, i hate this team or i will not watched this team,
this is not josh smith team, this is a celtics team
there is not loyalty in a team, i don’t care about loyalty
what i care about is winning
kg and pierce in this team equals contender

[connor]

Glad this didn't happen.

Was this the best offer we're going to get for Pierce?  Sure it was.  That doesn't mean we should've made it.

I don't want a meathead like Smith on this team.  If people really hate the Pierce end-of-game iso, I'd bet my left nut they would've hated the Smoove 17-seconds-left-on-the-shot-clock three more.

I'm not even sure its the best deal we could have gotten for Pierce. Potentially a 1 year rental of Smith and then either forced to let him walk or give him a max contract, which I don't think he is worth. And for that we have to give up the Captain, who you could argue deserves to retire in green AND a first rounder.

As I said above, I don't think swapping Pierce for Smith would have put us over the top. If the Celtics are moving PP I expect it to be as a part of a larger rebuilding process.

I would argue that Golden State would have been a better trading partner if the Celtics wanted to get the best value back for Pierce. The Warriors would have been a great landing spot for Pierce (it'd be nice to send him to a team that could contend rather than a sub .500 ball club) and we could probably have gotten either Harrison Barnes or Klay Thompson if we were willing to take back enough in bad contracts (which we could subsequently amnesty or pawn off in other blow up trades). Adding PP would give the Warriors a boost in scoring and veteran leadership that they need. Plus with Jarret Jack and Carl Landry being so key to their success and both heading to free agency next year, this would be the year for them to make a push.

And I'm not just pulling this out of my ass, it was one of the potential trade options being floated out there for a while.

I'd rather young talent on rookie contracts to pair with our budding young core (Rondo, Bradley, Sully) than I guy who could either bail next season or end up getting way overpaid.

I agree that the trade wouldn't have put us over the top, but I strongly disagree about this not being the best value for Pierce.

Pierce isn't as valuable as many think he is.  He isn't worth picks, unless they're mid-to-late firsts.  At best, he's worth a young asset and a bad contract.

When you get a chance to get Smith, a borderline All Star, that's a great trade.  I don't understand why Dallas and Atlanta would've wanted to do this.  It's terrible for both of them.

Dallas ain't making the playoffs, so why trade for Pierce?

Atlanta is getting crap for Smith.  He's got much better value than that.

Thompson and Barnes are nice players, but they are nothing near the player Smith is.

Those guys are nothing near the player Smith is yet, but because Smith is going to get overpaid (potentially by quite a lot of money) his value takes a significant hit. I'd rather take nice young lottery pick assets on rookie deals that could develop into the next Smith or Pierce, than have to overpay Smith and get hamstrung by his cap number for the next couple years going forward. Especially if acquiring Smith isn't going to be putting my team over the top.

Its not that I'm overvaluing Pierce, its that Smith's value needs to be downgraded because he is going to get overpaid. Yes he is probably the best player the Celtics could have gotten in a trade for PP but he isn't the best value.

[connor]

The Warriors would have been a great landing spot for Pierce (it'd be nice to send him to a team that could contend rather than a sub .500 ball club)

I'd argue that if you trade Pierce, you should trade him to a team that can give you a good draft pick in return...and teams that could contend are unlikely to be able to give you that pick.

That's completely true, but also teams that can't contend aren't going to send you a lottery pick for Pierce. Doesn't make sense for them to take on so much salary, give up a solid pick only to win a few more games and still probably miss the playoffs.

Instead the best thing that they could probably do would be to trade Pierce to a contender in exchange a young guy who was recently drafted with a top pick (Barnes and Thompson, were both lottery picks the last 2 years). You lose one or 2 years of their rookie contracts, but their development is further along, you have a better chance of gauging whether they will fullfil their potential and you might actually find a team willing to give one up if it will make them better for the playoffs.

[ssspence]

terrible deal for atlanta. as much as i want josh smith pierce and a first is way over paying for him. no way.

instead of getting nothing?

[ssspence]

Was just going to post this

Beat you to it for once!

HaHa
Like the article says, do you think they go back to the trade talks in the summer?

Is it possible to make a deal before deciding about Pierce's team option?

You can't trade a player whose contract could end due to an option.  If it is a team option, the team can invoke the option, then trade the player.

There's no option on Pierce. His contract is partially guaranteed for 2013-14. The question is really when it becomes fully guaranteed (before FA starts or after).

[Roy H.]

Was just going to post this

Beat you to it for once!

HaHa
Like the article says, do you think they go back to the trade talks in the summer?

Is it possible to make a deal before deciding about Pierce's team option?

You can't trade a player whose contract could end due to an option.  If it is a team option, the team can invoke the option, then trade the player.

There's no option on Pierce. His contract is partially guaranteed for 2013-14. The question is really when it becomes fully guaranteed (before FA starts or after).

Pierce can be traded during the period between when our season ends and July 1.  After that date, the new league year begins, and PP's contract becomes fully guaranteed.

However, he can't be traded for Josh Smith, because Smith can become a free agent.