Do you agree the players are the product?

[Chris]

The product is the best team basketball in the world. Without the players, the owners can't make that claim.

Absolutely true.  But without the league, there is no product either.  And that is the point. 

The players are an intregal part of the product, but they are not the entire product.

Sure there is, with No NBA players will go and be apart of another league somewhere else and in a few years one of the foreign leagues will be the premier league. High Level basketball can exist without the NBA, The NBA can't exists without the highest level of basketball. The product ( The Player's performance) can be delivered on any stage, as they're proving right now.

But that is a different product.  Just like the NBA with lesser players is a different product.  

[mgent]

Absolutely true.  But without the league, there is no product either.  And that is the point. 

That's not true though.  The product is still there, the players are still alive.  They just don't have anyone to market them.

If they went and joined a similar league, it would be about the same.  It could never be the same for the NBA without the current players, because there's no similar product for them to sell.  There are tons of other people capable of running a business, but there's nobody as talented as NBA players.

[wdleehi]

And is there the same amount of money in the Euro leagues for all the NBA players?  Or even enough spots?

[mgent]

Absolutely true.  But without the league, there is no product either.  And that is the point.  

That's not true though.  The product is still there, the players are still alive.  They just don't have anyone to market them.

If they went and joined a similar league, it would be about the same.  It could never be the same for the NBA without the current players, because there's no similar product for them to sell.  There are tons of other people capable of running a business, but there's nobody as talented as NBA players.

See my previous example:


You walk into a store and buy a 6 pack, you can't do that without the store, or a cashier to scan your item, or the liquor license, or your own ID, but none of that matters.  You're still paying for the beer.

Without all that other stuff the product can't be sold, but without the 6 pack you don't even have a product.

[wdleehi]

Absolutely true.  But without the league, there is no product either.  And that is the point. 

That's not true though.  The product is still there, the players are still alive.  They just don't have anyone to market them.

If they went and joined a similar league, it would be about the same.  It could never be the same for the NBA without the current players, because there's no similar product for them to sell.  There are tons of other people capable of running a business, but there's nobody as talented as NBA players.

Where is the similar league with teams in the NY market?  The LA market?  The Boston market?  The Chicago market?  


Those markets allow players to make more money.  (and not just the superstars)  

[KCattheStripe]

The product is the best team basketball in the world. Without the players, the owners can't make that claim.

Absolutely true.  But without the league, there is no product either.  And that is the point. 

The players are an intregal part of the product, but they are not the entire product.

Sure there is, with No NBA players will go and be apart of another league somewhere else and in a few years one of the foreign leagues will be the premier league. High Level basketball can exist without the NBA, The NBA can't exists without the highest level of basketball. The product ( The Player's performance) can be delivered on any stage, as they're proving right now.

Like the other high level sports that make all that money in the US?  



I don't care about the Euro leagues.  They are not here.  Their games are not on TV and not schedule with times that would be good with my schedule.  

Japan has great baseball.  High level.  I am a baseball fan.  I do not watch baseball from Japan.  



So, the NBA player can play somewhere else, but they would not have the star they have here.  They would not be the advertising money makers they can be with the NBA.  

Basketball, thanks in large part to the efforts David Stern, is more global than all of the other Big 4 in the US. You may not watch games abroad, but that is by no means a sign that these players won't make absurd money from advertising and rising salaries as they bring high level basketball to another market? Soccer players make huge endorsement deals even though only hardcore fans of the sport watch it regularly here. F-1 racers are some of the highest paid athletes in the world, that sport isn't big here.

Basketball is a global game and the NBA needs to have the premier product to retain interest in it's own country, whereas the players can go abroad to find money and owners willing to work with them.

[wdleehi]

Absolutely true.  But without the league, there is no product either.  And that is the point. 

That's not true though.  The product is still there, the players are still alive.  They just don't have anyone to market them.

If they went and joined a similar league, it would be about the same.  It could never be the same for the NBA without the current players, because there's no similar product for them to sell.  There are tons of other people capable of running a business, but there's nobody as talented as NBA players.

See my latest example:


You walk into a store and buy a 6 pack, you can't do that without the store, or a cashier to scan your item, or the liquor license, or your own ID, but none of that matters.  You're still paying for the beer.

Without all that other stuff the product can't be sold, but without the 6 pack you don't even have a product.

But if the store was removed and you had to leave the area to buy the product and it is open only at 2 am, there is going to be issues.

[wdleehi]

The product is the best team basketball in the world. Without the players, the owners can't make that claim.

Absolutely true.  But without the league, there is no product either.  And that is the point. 

The players are an intregal part of the product, but they are not the entire product.

Sure there is, with No NBA players will go and be apart of another league somewhere else and in a few years one of the foreign leagues will be the premier league. High Level basketball can exist without the NBA, The NBA can't exists without the highest level of basketball. The product ( The Player's performance) can be delivered on any stage, as they're proving right now.

Like the other high level sports that make all that money in the US?  



I don't care about the Euro leagues.  They are not here.  Their games are not on TV and not schedule with times that would be good with my schedule.  

Japan has great baseball.  High level.  I am a baseball fan.  I do not watch baseball from Japan.  



So, the NBA player can play somewhere else, but they would not have the star they have here.  They would not be the advertising money makers they can be with the NBA.  

Basketball, thanks in large part to the efforts David Stern, is more global than all of the other Big 4 in the US. You may not watch games abroad, but that is by no means a sign that these players won't make absurd money from advertising and rising salaries as they bring high level basketball to another market? Soccer players make huge endorsement deals even though only hardcore fans of the sport watch it regularly here. F-1 racers are some of the highest paid athletes in the world, that sport isn't big here.

Basketball is a global game and the NBA needs to have the premier product to retain interest in it's own country, whereas the players can go abroad to find money and owners willing to work with them.

Baseball is a global sport.  Doesn't mean I am watching the games from other countries.


Players are in the NBA because there is more money there.  It's not like a new deal will change that. 

[mgent]

Absolutely true.  But without the league, there is no product either.  And that is the point. 

That's not true though.  The product is still there, the players are still alive.  They just don't have anyone to market them.

If they went and joined a similar league, it would be about the same.  It could never be the same for the NBA without the current players, because there's no similar product for them to sell.  There are tons of other people capable of running a business, but there's nobody as talented as NBA players.

See my latest example:


You walk into a store and buy a 6 pack, you can't do that without the store, or a cashier to scan your item, or the liquor license, or your own ID, but none of that matters.  You're still paying for the beer.

Without all that other stuff the product can't be sold, but without the 6 pack you don't even have a product.

But if the store was removed and you had to leave the area to buy the product and it is open only at 2 am, there is going to be issues.

Which is why the league is needed, to sell the product.

[KCattheStripe]

The product is the best team basketball in the world. Without the players, the owners can't make that claim.

Absolutely true.  But without the league, there is no product either.  And that is the point. 

The players are an intregal part of the product, but they are not the entire product.

Sure there is, with No NBA players will go and be apart of another league somewhere else and in a few years one of the foreign leagues will be the premier league. High Level basketball can exist without the NBA, The NBA can't exists without the highest level of basketball. The product ( The Player's performance) can be delivered on any stage, as they're proving right now.

But that is a different product.  Just like the NBA with lesser players is a different product.  

It's not a different product, The Highest Level of Basketball is the same no matter where it's being played. In a few years , if the players all decided to say to heck with the NBA owners and just went abroad, a dominant league in europe would be established that would be able to pay comprable salaries to what players are getting now because they would be providing access to the same product the NBA is providing access to now in a region where there is demand for it.

[mgent]

Absolutely true.  But without the league, there is no product either.  And that is the point. 

That's not true though.  The product is still there, the players are still alive.  They just don't have anyone to market them.

If they went and joined a similar league, it would be about the same.  It could never be the same for the NBA without the current players, because there's no similar product for them to sell.  There are tons of other people capable of running a business, but there's nobody as talented as NBA players.

Where is the similar league with teams in the NY market?  The LA market?  The Boston market?  The Chicago market?  


Those markets allow players to make more money.  (and not just the superstars)  

Since when is New York, LA, etc. exclusive to the NBA?

[KCattheStripe]

The product is the best team basketball in the world. Without the players, the owners can't make that claim.

Absolutely true.  But without the league, there is no product either.  And that is the point. 

The players are an intregal part of the product, but they are not the entire product.

Sure there is, with No NBA players will go and be apart of another league somewhere else and in a few years one of the foreign leagues will be the premier league. High Level basketball can exist without the NBA, The NBA can't exists without the highest level of basketball. The product ( The Player's performance) can be delivered on any stage, as they're proving right now.

Like the other high level sports that make all that money in the US?  



I don't care about the Euro leagues.  They are not here.  Their games are not on TV and not schedule with times that would be good with my schedule.  

Japan has great baseball.  High level.  I am a baseball fan.  I do not watch baseball from Japan.  



So, the NBA player can play somewhere else, but they would not have the star they have here.  They would not be the advertising money makers they can be with the NBA.  

Basketball, thanks in large part to the efforts David Stern, is more global than all of the other Big 4 in the US. You may not watch games abroad, but that is by no means a sign that these players won't make absurd money from advertising and rising salaries as they bring high level basketball to another market? Soccer players make huge endorsement deals even though only hardcore fans of the sport watch it regularly here. F-1 racers are some of the highest paid athletes in the world, that sport isn't big here.

Basketball is a global game and the NBA needs to have the premier product to retain interest in it's own country, whereas the players can go abroad to find money and owners willing to work with them.

Baseball is a global sport.  Doesn't mean I am watching the games from other countries.


Players are in the NBA because there is more money there.  It's not like a new deal will change that. 

Baseball is not as global a sport as basketball. And you keep saying it doesn't mean that you will watch the games. The players don't need WD to watch the games, they just need people wherever they're playing to and because the game is global, tose people exist everywhere now. You're right, a new deal with the NBA would change that  but why should the players feel the need to play for people they don't like working and providing a product for when they could go somewhere else. The NBA would offer more money if they could reach a deal, but that's if.

[wdleehi]

Absolutely true.  But without the league, there is no product either.  And that is the point. 

That's not true though.  The product is still there, the players are still alive.  They just don't have anyone to market them.

If they went and joined a similar league, it would be about the same.  It could never be the same for the NBA without the current players, because there's no similar product for them to sell.  There are tons of other people capable of running a business, but there's nobody as talented as NBA players.

Where is the similar league with teams in the NY market?  The LA market?  The Boston market?  The Chicago market?  


Those markets allow players to make more money.  (and not just the superstars)  

Since when is New York, LA, etc. exclusive to the NBA?

Then we are back to the players having to create themselves a new league. 

[mgent]

The product is the best team basketball in the world. Without the players, the owners can't make that claim.

Absolutely true.  But without the league, there is no product either.  And that is the point. 

The players are an intregal part of the product, but they are not the entire product.

Sure there is, with No NBA players will go and be apart of another league somewhere else and in a few years one of the foreign leagues will be the premier league. High Level basketball can exist without the NBA, The NBA can't exists without the highest level of basketball. The product ( The Player's performance) can be delivered on any stage, as they're proving right now.

But that is a different product.  Just like the NBA with lesser players is a different product.  

It's not a different product, The Highest Level of Basketball is the same no matter where it's being played. In a few years , if the players all decided to say to heck with the NBA owners and just went abroad, a dominant league in europe would be established that would be able to pay comprable salaries to what players are getting now because they would be providing access to the same product the NBA is providing access to now in a region where there is demand for it.

Exactly.  The owners are paying the players, but the players are generating the revenue.  So in reality the players are paying the league to market them because they can't do it themselves.

[wdleehi]

The product is the best team basketball in the world. Without the players, the owners can't make that claim.

Absolutely true.  But without the league, there is no product either.  And that is the point. 

The players are an intregal part of the product, but they are not the entire product.

Sure there is, with No NBA players will go and be apart of another league somewhere else and in a few years one of the foreign leagues will be the premier league. High Level basketball can exist without the NBA, The NBA can't exists without the highest level of basketball. The product ( The Player's performance) can be delivered on any stage, as they're proving right now.

Like the other high level sports that make all that money in the US?  



I don't care about the Euro leagues.  They are not here.  Their games are not on TV and not schedule with times that would be good with my schedule.  

Japan has great baseball.  High level.  I am a baseball fan.  I do not watch baseball from Japan.  



So, the NBA player can play somewhere else, but they would not have the star they have here.  They would not be the advertising money makers they can be with the NBA.  

Basketball, thanks in large part to the efforts David Stern, is more global than all of the other Big 4 in the US. You may not watch games abroad, but that is by no means a sign that these players won't make absurd money from advertising and rising salaries as they bring high level basketball to another market? Soccer players make huge endorsement deals even though only hardcore fans of the sport watch it regularly here. F-1 racers are some of the highest paid athletes in the world, that sport isn't big here.

Basketball is a global game and the NBA needs to have the premier product to retain interest in it's own country, whereas the players can go abroad to find money and owners willing to work with them.

Baseball is a global sport.  Doesn't mean I am watching the games from other countries.


Players are in the NBA because there is more money there.  It's not like a new deal will change that. 

Baseball is not as global a sport as basketball. And you keep saying it doesn't mean that you will watch the games. The players don't need WD to watch the games, they just need people wherever they're playing to and because the game is global, tose people exist everywhere now. You're right, a new deal with the NBA would change that  but why should the players feel the need to play for people they don't like working and providing a product for when they could go somewhere else. The NBA would offer more money if they could reach a deal, but that's if.

You think my opinion on this is unique?  Then why doesn't ESPN show more of these international games?  Or Versus as they are trying to create their sports station?  Or Fox Sports?


Because it doesn't draw the ratings.