Do you agree the players are the product?

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

I'm gonna use Golf as an example b/c there is proof that without Tiger, the majority of people that watch it when he is playing, don't watch it when he isn't (check the ratings and that's not even the only proof). If the superstars in the NBA weren't still playing, the NBA would be hanging on by a thread like the WNBA! Go ahead and send out a bunch of "no names" and see how many people still watch. I don't care if the owners sent out teams of women in lingerie, few people would watch (lingerie football is STILL trying for the come-up right now). When half-naked ladies can't get many viewers then you know it's the players! I don't care how much money the owners shell out to advertise the stars, because it's not like if they shelled out the same for someone like Avery Bradely, people would care who he is! You can do million dollar ads for the kid, no one wants to see a bunch of players of his talent level play (sure, hardcore fans who watch just b/c of teams maybe... but in reality how many are out there?). You can put any bunch of people who know how to run an organization (like exchange the owners for other people who can do that job but not as well) but you can't put out a bunch of players who can play basket ball (but not as well) and expect the NBA to still be the NBA (hell it wouldn't even be close), the HUGE MAJORITY of fans wouldn't even watch anymore! Sure, they need each other but the owners need the players more! Americans like to see bigger and better, who's tuning in to see average (again, a few people for sure, but you know what I mean)?

Now, what's the product? I dunno. It seems without each interchanging part there is nothing... so maybe they ALL (even the game) are pieces that come together to make the product. Frankly, thinking of what the product is hurts my head so I just wrote in response to people arguing who/what is most important.

[wdleehi]

Without the PGA, no one would be watching Tiger.




Why is it hard to believe that multiple parts are all important to a product? 

[mgent]

Because all the leagues, at some point, became "players'" leagues.  Nowadays all the marketing is on the players and more-so the superstars.  They're the most important part of the business.

The only real exception you could argue is Nascar, but even then the drivers are responsible for most of the sponsors.

[wdleehi]

Because all the leagues, at some point, became "players'" leagues.  Nowadays all the marketing is on the players and more-so the superstars.  They're the most important part of the business.

The only real exception you could argue is Nascar, but even then the drivers are responsible for most of the sponsors.

And with no league, where are the players?



With no players, where is the league?



Both are equally important. 

[Chris]

Because all the leagues, at some point, became "players'" leagues.  Nowadays all the marketing is on the players and more-so the superstars.  They're the most important part of the business.

The only real exception you could argue is Nascar, but even then the drivers are responsible for most of the sponsors.

No one is debating who is most important.  The question is whether they can exist without each other, and I say no.  Players need the league as much as the league needs the players. 

[Fafnir]

Because all the leagues, at some point, became "players'" leagues.  Nowadays all the marketing is on the players and more-so the superstars.  They're the most important part of the business.

The only real exception you could argue is Nascar, but even then the drivers are responsible for most of the sponsors.

No one is debating who is most important.  The question is whether they can exist without each other, and I say no.  Players need the league as much as the league needs the players. 

Which is one reason why the players rejected an offer that gives them far less than 50% of the pie out of hand.

[mgent]

Because all the leagues, at some point, became "players'" leagues.  Nowadays all the marketing is on the players and more-so the superstars.  They're the most important part of the business.

The only real exception you could argue is Nascar, but even then the drivers are responsible for most of the sponsors.

And with no league, where are the players?



With no players, where is the league?



Both are equally important.  

That's oversimplifying it.

Edit:  For example, the heart doesn't work without the brain and the brain doesn't work without the heart, but your brain is obviously more important/vital than your heart.

[mgent]

Because all the leagues, at some point, became "players'" leagues.  Nowadays all the marketing is on the players and more-so the superstars.  They're the most important part of the business.

The only real exception you could argue is Nascar, but even then the drivers are responsible for most of the sponsors.

No one is debating who is most important.  The question is whether they can exist without each other, and I say no.  Players need the league as much as the league needs the players. 

The players are the ones generating the majority of the money, that's why they're the product.  I haven't seen one person trying to argue that players could exist without the league or that the league could exist without players.  That's ridiculous.

I actually said before that I think players need the league/owners more than the owners need them.  I wasn't debating about power, I was disagreeing with the statements that the game of basketball is what's being sold and not the players/franchises.

[wdleehi]

Because all the leagues, at some point, became "players'" leagues.  Nowadays all the marketing is on the players and more-so the superstars.  They're the most important part of the business.

The only real exception you could argue is Nascar, but even then the drivers are responsible for most of the sponsors.

And with no league, where are the players?



With no players, where is the league?



Both are equally important.  

That's oversimplifying it.

Edit:  For example, the heart doesn't work without the brain and the brain doesn't work without the heart, but your brain is obviously more important/vital than your heart.

It is? 


With out either one, you are gone. 

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

Without the PGA, no one would be watching Tiger.




Why is it hard to believe that multiple parts are all important to a product? 

So, you didn't actually read what I said, huh? I said they need each other but Tiger is the most important part because no one really watches The PGA when Tiger isn't playing except the fans of golf! This is a fact... they have had a long time w/o Tiger over the last few years on multiple occasions and you should see the ratings (internet traffic on Golf sites) take a dive and that's over a short span, imagine the ratings if he never played again.

[Eja117]

This whole players are the product thing really rubs me the wrong way. They are no more the product than a movie star is the product (or special effects) in a blockbuster film.

Yes they are the primary draw. Yes they deserve a ton of money. But the players make it sound like the owners are just going to pocket 50 % of the revenue. The owners (like movie studios) still have to pay all the producers, marketing, catering, transportation etc.

The marketing expenses alone are probably astronomical. You can't draw an audience if the audience doesn't know you are there, or has a place to go to see you.

But movies have script writers, directors, lighting and sound guys, make up people, special effects people, costume people, etc

The nba has players, coaches, a couple doctors, and some cruddy crooked refs. All of which are nowhere near as necessary as the players.

You could have nba players in any gym on Earth and you'd have a great thing on your hands.

If the 80s Lakers, 80's Celts, 90s Bulls, 00's Spurs, and 50's Celts jumped into a time machine and arrived at a gym with nobody else there and nobody whatsoever to "produce" the game, and Larry, Michael, Russell, Duncan, and Magic walked up to each other and said "Let's settle this" how much money would you pay to be the only person in that room? Because of what those players would produce. And not anybody else.

I guess the game is the product that the players produce. So they are basically the only irreplaceable input.  Pretty similar.  It's like saying the gold in a gold neckless isn't the product. Well actually it is. And the house on a property is the product too.

Or you could say the coaches are hired to produce the best team and then they play another produced team to produce a championship team composed entirely of players.

Kevin Love is right

[Eja117]

I wish right now Brady would tell Belichek "I'm the product. Get me out of this preseason game now"

[mgent]

Because all the leagues, at some point, became "players'" leagues.  Nowadays all the marketing is on the players and more-so the superstars.  They're the most important part of the business.

The only real exception you could argue is Nascar, but even then the drivers are responsible for most of the sponsors.

And with no league, where are the players?



With no players, where is the league?



Both are equally important.  

That's oversimplifying it.

Edit:  For example, the heart doesn't work without the brain and the brain doesn't work without the heart, but your brain is obviously more important/vital than your heart.

It is? 


With out either one, you are gone. 

Well, my entire point is just because two things need each other to work, doesn't mean they're of the same value, or contribute equally.

Your brain controls your entire body.  You can get a new heart transplant, or you can be put on a bypass.  Hearts can also be restarted.  Once your brain goes, you're REALLY gone.

[Eja117]

I think the players might need the owners to make money, but not to produce great basketball. In fact I think sometimes the owners and Stern prevent them from creating great basketball.


Remember that time Kobe was allowed to punch Mike Bibby in the face and the Lakers "beat" the Kings to become "champions"?  Not a great product. The players were great. The games were great. But coulda done without the refs and the owners and the BS we were fed. That wasn't the player's fault. Alone in a gym that doesn't happen.

[wdleehi]

Because all the leagues, at some point, became "players'" leagues.  Nowadays all the marketing is on the players and more-so the superstars.  They're the most important part of the business.

The only real exception you could argue is Nascar, but even then the drivers are responsible for most of the sponsors.

And with no league, where are the players?



With no players, where is the league?



Both are equally important.  

That's oversimplifying it.

Edit:  For example, the heart doesn't work without the brain and the brain doesn't work without the heart, but your brain is obviously more important/vital than your heart.

It is? 


With out either one, you are gone. 

Well, my entire point is just because two things need each other to work, doesn't mean they're of the same value, or contribute equally.

Your brain controls your entire body.  You can get a new heart transplant, or you can be put on a bypass.  Hearts can also be restarted.  Once your brain goes, you're REALLY gone.

Get a replacement heart (SCAB!!!)  and the product is less.