Do you agree the players are the product?

[Fafnir]

Also, I hate to single them out, but what about chicks?  I once read a post on here from a guy that lives in Cleveland who heard a girl at work say "LeBron's not playing tonight, I'm not even going to bother watching the game."  For some reason, these types of fans make up a decent amount of sales.

How many women do you see at games, wearing Paul Pierce jerseys, cheering when he scores?  How many of them do you think know what a clear path or 8 second violation is?

You can say this about a lot of the male fans as well.  

I know at least 3 football fans who only really follow Michael Vick. (all are men)

[Kane3387]

If the product is "the game of basketball", then why does the WNBA suck lol? It's not just the players either. It is the elite player. People became interested in the Clippers because of Griffin, OKC becuase of Durant, and Cleveland when Lebron was there. Miami became a circus because they had Lebron & Wade with a little Chris Bosh on the side.

The NBA has always marketed its top talent more then any other league. It's why the All Star Game is such a Huge event. Football on the other hand markets the sport. They don't sell players as much. It's easier though since they wear helmets.

If you took out the superstars of the NBA... The every year All-Stars the average fan who isn't a die hard fan wouldn't be interested that much. Not everyone roots for a team like we do the Celtics. Most people follow players, not team, and that is why the Superstars are the product.

[Chris]

If the product is "the game of basketball", then why does the WNBA suck lol? It's not just the players either. It is the elite player. People became interested in the Clippers because of Griffin, OKC becuase of Durant, and Cleveland when Lebron was there. Miami became a circus because they had Lebron & Wade with a little Chris Bosh on the side.

The NBA has always marketed its top talent more then any other league. It's why the All Star Game is such a Huge event. Football on the other hand markets the sport. They don't sell players as much. It's easier though since they wear helmets.

If you took out the superstars of the NBA... The every year All-Stars the average fan who isn't a die hard fan wouldn't be interested that much. Not everyone roots for a team like we do the Celtics. Most people follow players, not team, and that is why the Superstars are the product.

While this is all true.  Without the NBA, these players would also not be what they are.

The product is the whole package. 

Would you buy just a computer processor?  Would you buy just milk and flour when you want a cake?

They need each other.  The owners know this, but I am getting the impression that the players have not realized it.  So, this lockout is going to keep going until that sinks in to the players, so both sides can agree to work together.

[mgent]

If the product is "the game of basketball", then why does the WNBA suck lol? It's not just the players either. It is the elite player. People became interested in the Clippers because of Griffin, OKC becuase of Durant, and Cleveland when Lebron was there. Miami became a circus because they had Lebron & Wade with a little Chris Bosh on the side.

The NBA has always marketed its top talent more then any other league. It's why the All Star Game is such a Huge event. Football on the other hand markets the sport. They don't sell players as much. It's easier though since they wear helmets.

If you took out the superstars of the NBA... The every year All-Stars the average fan who isn't a die hard fan wouldn't be interested that much. Not everyone roots for a team like we do the Celtics. Most people follow players, not team, and that is why the Superstars are the product.

While this is all true.  Without the NBA, these players would also not be what they are.

The product is the whole package.  

Would you buy just a computer processor?  Would you buy just milk and flour when you want a cake?

They need each other.  The owners know this, but I am getting the impression that the players have not realized it.  So, this lockout is going to keep going until that sinks in to the players, so both sides can agree to work together.

I don't think anyone is arguing that the players are the only part of the product, but they're the most important and they make the majority of the money.

The lockout has nothing to do with that.  The owners have most of the power, and actually the players probably need the owners more than the owners need the players.

[Mr October]

This whole players are the product thing really rubs me the wrong way. They are no more the product than a movie star is the product (or special effects) in a blockbuster film.

Yes they are the primary draw. Yes they deserve a ton of money. But the players make it sound like the owners are just going to pocket 50 % of the revenue. The owners (like movie studios) still have to pay all the producers, marketing, catering, transportation etc.

The marketing expenses alone are probably astronomical. You can't draw an audience if the audience doesn't know you are there, or has a place to go to see you.

[Chris]

If the product is "the game of basketball", then why does the WNBA suck lol? It's not just the players either. It is the elite player. People became interested in the Clippers because of Griffin, OKC becuase of Durant, and Cleveland when Lebron was there. Miami became a circus because they had Lebron & Wade with a little Chris Bosh on the side.

The NBA has always marketed its top talent more then any other league. It's why the All Star Game is such a Huge event. Football on the other hand markets the sport. They don't sell players as much. It's easier though since they wear helmets.

If you took out the superstars of the NBA... The every year All-Stars the average fan who isn't a die hard fan wouldn't be interested that much. Not everyone roots for a team like we do the Celtics. Most people follow players, not team, and that is why the Superstars are the product.

While this is all true.  Without the NBA, these players would also not be what they are.

The product is the whole package.  

Would you buy just a computer processor?  Would you buy just milk and flour when you want a cake?

They need each other.  The owners know this, but I am getting the impression that the players have not realized it.  So, this lockout is going to keep going until that sinks in to the players, so both sides can agree to work together.

I don't think anyone is arguing that the players are the only part of the product, but they're the most important and they make the majority of the money.

The lockout has nothing to do with that.  The owners have most of the power, and actually the players probably need the owners more than the owners need the players.

This whole thread is about whether the players are the whole product or not.  

[Mr October]

And if the players want to be this mercenary, then the salaries should be even more heavily skewed towards the players that sell out the building. Do they really want that?

15-20 guys getting paid big money, then a huge drop to 500K-5 million per player for the rest. No one is buying tickets to specifically see Dalembert, Nene, Perkins, Maggette, Ben Gordon, etc.

Screw these players for being so arrogant!

[Roy H.]

The product is the game of basketball.

Yep.  The players are the talent / employees.

[Mr October]

the teams are the product.  this includes the players, but half of what brings out many of the fans, whether die-hard or casual, is the connection that they have to the teams.  players come and go, but the teams (for the most part) stay, and that's what keeps fans coming back even when their favorite players have retired.


without the teams, we'd just have a bunch of tall athletic guys playing pick up games on TV.  that would be entertaining, but it wouldn't be anything close to the real NBA that we love.

TP. True. Fans watch the players, but most of the money spenders (tickets, merch) are loyal to the team.

[mgent]

If the product is "the game of basketball", then why does the WNBA suck lol? It's not just the players either. It is the elite player. People became interested in the Clippers because of Griffin, OKC becuase of Durant, and Cleveland when Lebron was there. Miami became a circus because they had Lebron & Wade with a little Chris Bosh on the side.

The NBA has always marketed its top talent more then any other league. It's why the All Star Game is such a Huge event. Football on the other hand markets the sport. They don't sell players as much. It's easier though since they wear helmets.

If you took out the superstars of the NBA... The every year All-Stars the average fan who isn't a die hard fan wouldn't be interested that much. Not everyone roots for a team like we do the Celtics. Most people follow players, not team, and that is why the Superstars are the product.

While this is all true.  Without the NBA, these players would also not be what they are.

The product is the whole package.  

Would you buy just a computer processor?  Would you buy just milk and flour when you want a cake?

They need each other.  The owners know this, but I am getting the impression that the players have not realized it.  So, this lockout is going to keep going until that sinks in to the players, so both sides can agree to work together.

I don't think anyone is arguing that the players are the only part of the product, but they're the most important and they make the majority of the money.

The lockout has nothing to do with that.  The owners have most of the power, and actually the players probably need the owners more than the owners need the players.

This whole thread is about whether the players are the whole product or not.  

Oh, well I don't see how anyone could argue that.  Why would there be teams or owners if they could just sell themselves and make pure profit?

Regardless of why the thread was started, I don't think the players or the game being the product has anything to do with the lockout.

As for the discussion itself, I think the owners are selling the players, not the game.  That's why they get like half the money, not James Naismith.

[LooseCannon]

They need each other.  The owners know this, but I am getting the impression that the players have not realized it.  So, this lockout is going to keep going until that sinks in to the players, so both sides can agree to work together.

I'd probably say the reverse is true.  The owners need to treat the players more like partners than underling employees.  The lockout is going to keep going until the owners realize that they shouldn't get to dictate most of the terms (or until the players cave).

[18isGREATERthan72]

If the product is "the game of basketball", then why does the WNBA suck lol? It's not just the players either. It is the elite player. People became interested in the Clippers because of Griffin, OKC becuase of Durant, and Cleveland when Lebron was there. Miami became a circus because they had Lebron & Wade with a little Chris Bosh on the side.

The NBA has always marketed its top talent more then any other league. It's why the All Star Game is such a Huge event. Football on the other hand markets the sport. They don't sell players as much. It's easier though since they wear helmets.

If you took out the superstars of the NBA... The every year All-Stars the average fan who isn't a die hard fan wouldn't be interested that much. Not everyone roots for a team like we do the Celtics. Most people follow players, not team, and that is why the Superstars are the product.

While this is all true.  Without the NBA, these players would also not be what they are.

The product is the whole package. 

Would you buy just a computer processor?  Would you buy just milk and flour when you want a cake?

They need each other.  The owners know this, but I am getting the impression that the players have not realized it.  So, this lockout is going to keep going until that sinks in to the players, so both sides can agree to work together.

I think a better analogy would be the League is the computer, and the Players are a videogame.  yeah, without the "elite" players, the league would still be able to function, with lower level talent.  People still would want to watch basketball, so people would still buy computers, cause they like to check their email and such.  However, the real draw is the video game.  The video game is something that will get you to go out and spend hundreds of dollars on the computer in the first place.

Also, people need to keep in mind, a majority of "fans" aren't the same type of fans that we are, that live and breath the game.  Most fans are just people who love LeBron, or Kobe, or whoever.  It's not exactly speaking for us, saying people go out just to see the players, but for the majority of fans, that is the reality.

[greenpride32]

I agree with everyone who said the product is the owners and league employees, and the platform they create for the players.  If the players didn't need the owners they could just setup their own league and make their millions, but obviously they can't; it's really as simple as that.

If Rafer Alston didn't have the NBA where fans pay $50-200 a ticket to see him play in an area or $50-75/month  subscription to watch his team on TV, then he'd being playing at Rucker Park and certainly not getting wealthy from it.

But until the players change their stance on the issue (that they are the single most important entity) this lockout will not end.

[BASS_THUMPER]

products?

this aint goin shoppin?

the players are the nba....

point blank..

if you notice...streetball is gaining ground AGAIN..

new streetball movie comin out..

mma took away boxing....rite?..

*sippin*

[paulcowens]

The players ARE the sport, from the corner playground and the basket on the garage to the NBA.  Thank goodness.