CB DRAFT FINALS THREAD: Sixers Win!!!!!!!

[indeedproceed]

Mgent, do you plan on doing anything special to contain Amar'e and/or Bogut?

Nope, IP's shooters are too good to double.  West and Varejao will play them straight up.  Varejao will do a better job on Bogut than IP wants you to think.  He'll guard Amare when Amare's playing C, or when Lopez is in at C (who West can handle).

When West sits, I've got KMarts fresh legs to throw at Amare.  Situationly, I might throw Bonner in for limited minutes to draw Bogut out of the paint for Iggy and Wade.

Overall, Varejao and West/KMart will match Bogut and Amare defensively.  Offensively I think they'll out score my bigs, but not nearly as much as Wade and Iguodala will limit and outscore Harden and Delfino.

mgent: Tell me one game in the last 3 years where Andersen Varejao plainly guarded Bogut for the majority of his time on the floor in a H2H matchup.

Tell me the last time you saw Bogut guarded by Varejao for the majority of his time on the floor and Bogut scored easily and consistently.

We don't know he will.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201003060MIL.html

56% shooting, 15 points, 9 rebounds, and Varejao had 5 fouls in 25 minutes.

Tell us why that won't happen again.

[indeedproceed]

IP's plan to defend Wade for 50 minutes in a 48 minute game has blown my mind. What an innovator.

You're hate and I tacky you.

[KCattheStripe]

IP's plan to defend Wade for 50 minutes in a 48 minute game has blown my mind. What an innovator.

You're hate and I tacky you.

[indeedproceed]

So none of this is swaying anyone either way? Nobody cares?

[Who]

Actually Barbosa is a 39% 3pt shooter.  One year he hit 2 and a half a game at 43%.  I'd say he's better than "about good enough not to leave alone."

My concern with this statement is that he's shot 32% and 33% the last two years. His first six years in the league he did shoot 3's much better, but his shot has been off. I'd say it was the Steve Nash effect, but the first of his bad shooting years was in Phoenix.

Barbosa had an injury that year in Phoenix. It effected his shot. I think it was his wrist but I am not 100% sure. He had problems with it all year long.

I think his poor shooting in Toronto is solely down to that team's inability to create quality shot attempts for it's players. They had nobody who could draw attention defensively and free up others for higher percentage shots with Chris Bosh gone.

Barbosa wasn't the only player on that Raptors roster to see his shooting sink. Calderon did too. Bargnani is another. Two very talented shooters. Kleiza is another shooter who suffered.

With Dwyane Wade there to draw help defense and able to find shooters for high percentage shots, I think Barbosa will be very effective from downtown once again.

[mgent]

Actually Barbosa is a 39% 3pt shooter.  One year he hit 2 and a half a game at 43%.  I'd say he's better than "about good enough not to leave alone."

My concern with this statement is that he's shot 32% and 33% the last two years. His first six years in the league he did shoot 3's much better, but his shot has been off.

I was actually trying to be impartial. Barbosa the last 2 years has been pretty poor from 3, especially considering he took nearly 4 attempts per game and that would've put him in the top 10 for attempts per contest among starting PG's...who played 30+ minutes a night

But Barbosa only played 24 minutes a night. He would've led all point guards in 3pts attempted per game if he played 36 minutes a game...and he would've done that at 33.4%.

Still even with those two years he's still a 39% career 3pt shooter, for 75% of his career he was one of the best in the league.

Barbosa is one of those guys like Tony Allen that need to play decent minutes to get that confidence and get hot.  He'll get those ~24 minutes a game and he'll get back to a quick paced offense like Phoenix.

Also, Wade or Iguodala will be initiating the offense, so Barbosa will be getting catch-and-shoots or will be beating the defense down to court to give Wade and Iggy space with that transition 3.  He won't be coming in for Nash or Calderon and having nobody to create shots, thus resorting to bad 3s (like Eddie House at PG).

[indeedproceed]

Actually Barbosa is a 39% 3pt shooter.  One year he hit 2 and a half a game at 43%.  I'd say he's better than "about good enough not to leave alone."

My concern with this statement is that he's shot 32% and 33% the last two years. His first six years in the league he did shoot 3's much better, but his shot has been off.

I was actually trying to be impartial. Barbosa the last 2 years has been pretty poor from 3, especially considering he took nearly 4 attempts per game and that would've put him in the top 10 for attempts per contest among starting PG's...who played 30+ minutes a night

But Barbosa only played 24 minutes a night. He would've led all point guards in 3pts attempted per game if he played 36 minutes a game...and he would've done that at 33.4%.

Still even with those two years he's still a 39% career 3pt shooter, for 75% of his career he was one of the best in the league.

Barbosa is one of those guys like Tony Allen that need to play decent minutes to get that confidence and get hot.  He'll get those ~24 minutes a game and he'll get back to a quick paced offense like Phoenix.

Also, Wade or Iguodala will be initiating the offense, so Barbosa will be getting catch-and-shoots or will be beating the defense down to court to give Wade and Iggy space with that transition 3.  He won't be coming in for Nash or Calderon and having nobody to create shots, thus resorting to bad 3s (like Eddie House at PG).

I see...so what do your minutes look like? I showed mine, you gonna show yours?

[mgent]

Mgent, do you plan on doing anything special to contain Amar'e and/or Bogut?

Nope, IP's shooters are too good to double.  West and Varejao will play them straight up.  Varejao will do a better job on Bogut than IP wants you to think.  He'll guard Amare when Amare's playing C, or when Lopez is in at C (who West can handle).

When West sits, I've got KMarts fresh legs to throw at Amare.  Situationly, I might throw Bonner in for limited minutes to draw Bogut out of the paint for Iggy and Wade.

Overall, Varejao and West/KMart will match Bogut and Amare defensively.  Offensively I think they'll out score my bigs, but not nearly as much as Wade and Iguodala will limit and outscore Harden and Delfino.

mgent: Tell me one game in the last 3 years where Andersen Varejao plainly guarded Bogut for the majority of his time on the floor in a H2H matchup.

Tell me the last time you saw Bogut guarded by Varejao for the majority of his time on the floor and Bogut scored easily and consistently.

We don't know he will.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201003060MIL.html

56% shooting, 15 points, 9 rebounds, and Varejao had 5 fouls in 25 minutes.

Tell us why that won't happen again.

Is that the only sample?

[indeedproceed]

Mgent, do you plan on doing anything special to contain Amar'e and/or Bogut?

Nope, IP's shooters are too good to double.  West and Varejao will play them straight up.  Varejao will do a better job on Bogut than IP wants you to think.  He'll guard Amare when Amare's playing C, or when Lopez is in at C (who West can handle).

When West sits, I've got KMarts fresh legs to throw at Amare.  Situationly, I might throw Bonner in for limited minutes to draw Bogut out of the paint for Iggy and Wade.

Overall, Varejao and West/KMart will match Bogut and Amare defensively.  Offensively I think they'll out score my bigs, but not nearly as much as Wade and Iguodala will limit and outscore Harden and Delfino.

mgent: Tell me one game in the last 3 years where Andersen Varejao plainly guarded Bogut for the majority of his time on the floor in a H2H matchup.

Tell me the last time you saw Bogut guarded by Varejao for the majority of his time on the floor and Bogut scored easily and consistently.

We don't know he will.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201003060MIL.html

56% shooting, 15 points, 9 rebounds, and Varejao had 5 fouls in 25 minutes.

Tell us why that won't happen again.

Is that the only sample?

I went through the last 3 years of box scores...in every other game vs Bogut its pretty clear they used Shaq, Big Z, or some other combo to fill those minutes. Varejao was paired with them for a defensive monster, but wasn't guarding Bogut.

[mgent]

Hinrich (36)   Barbosa (12)
Wade (36)    Barbosa (12)
Iguodala (42)   Wade [(~6) whenever Williams isn't at SF]
West (35)    KMart (13)
Varejao (37)   Bonner/KMart (11)

[mgent]

Mgent, do you plan on doing anything special to contain Amar'e and/or Bogut?

Nope, IP's shooters are too good to double.  West and Varejao will play them straight up.  Varejao will do a better job on Bogut than IP wants you to think.  He'll guard Amare when Amare's playing C, or when Lopez is in at C (who West can handle).

When West sits, I've got KMarts fresh legs to throw at Amare.  Situationly, I might throw Bonner in for limited minutes to draw Bogut out of the paint for Iggy and Wade.

Overall, Varejao and West/KMart will match Bogut and Amare defensively.  Offensively I think they'll out score my bigs, but not nearly as much as Wade and Iguodala will limit and outscore Harden and Delfino.

mgent: Tell me one game in the last 3 years where Andersen Varejao plainly guarded Bogut for the majority of his time on the floor in a H2H matchup.

Tell me the last time you saw Bogut guarded by Varejao for the majority of his time on the floor and Bogut scored easily and consistently.

We don't know he will.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201003060MIL.html

56% shooting, 15 points, 9 rebounds, and Varejao had 5 fouls in 25 minutes.

Tell us why that won't happen again.

Is that the only sample?

I went through the last 3 years of box scores...in every other game vs Bogut its pretty clear they used Shaq, Big Z, or some other combo to fill those minutes. Varejao was paired with them for a defensive monster, but wasn't guarding Bogut.

So there's about a 50-50% chance that would or would not happen again?

[KCattheStripe]

Hinrich (28-30)   Barbosa (8-10)
Wade (34)    Barbosa (14)
Iguodala (42)   Wade [(~6) whenever Williams isn't at SF]
West (35)    KMart (13)
Varejao (37)   Bonner/KMart (11)

Are you planning on playing Wade at the 1? Those minutes only add up to 38.

[Kane3387]

But here is the problem when you say "People are voting for the GM they like best": You're de-legitimizing peoples' opinions who don't agree with your evaluation of the players involved.

To be clear, the "vote the GM" argument is only aimed at those GMs who make shorthand, lazy arguments for one side or the other, without seriously considering critiques or strengths of one team or the other.

That type of thing absolutely *does* happen in this draft, when consciously or subconsciously.  Heck, I know in my own mind, I feel guilty when I have to vote against one of the other mods (something I've done three times this draft, by the way).  It sucks, because I feel like I'm voting down somebody I personally like, and there's a very real pressure there (internal within myself).  I'd be shocked if I was the only one who was a bit uncomfortable voting against people I personally care for over guys who are relative strangers or who rub me the wrong way.

So, I apologize if I offended anybody, and if my thoughts crossed the line.  Maybe I should have kept that to myself, but again, some of the justifications to vote against Wade are just strange to me.

Im not sure its Wade people are voting against honestly. I have seen everyone say Wade gets his and still loses. Wade got his against Atlanta in 2009, Boston in 2010, and Dallas in 2011 and still lost. I think Wade definitely gets his. BUT the front court mismatch is big. It comes down to perimeter players vs front court players.

[indeedproceed]

Hinrich (28-30)   Barbosa (8-10)
Wade (34)    Barbosa (14)
Iguodala (42)   Wade [(~6) whenever Williams isn't at SF]
West (35)    KMart (13)
Varejao (37)   Bonner/KMart (11)

That's interesting. Really interesting.

Mgent, do you plan on doing anything special to contain Amar'e and/or Bogut?

Nope, IP's shooters are too good to double.  West and Varejao will play them straight up.  Varejao will do a better job on Bogut than IP wants you to think.  He'll guard Amare when Amare's playing C, or when Lopez is in at C (who West can handle).

When West sits, I've got KMarts fresh legs to throw at Amare.  Situationly, I might throw Bonner in for limited minutes to draw Bogut out of the paint for Iggy and Wade.

Overall, Varejao and West/KMart will match Bogut and Amare defensively.  Offensively I think they'll out score my bigs, but not nearly as much as Wade and Iguodala will limit and outscore Harden and Delfino.

mgent: Tell me one game in the last 3 years where Andersen Varejao plainly guarded Bogut for the majority of his time on the floor in a H2H matchup.

Tell me the last time you saw Bogut guarded by Varejao for the majority of his time on the floor and Bogut scored easily and consistently.

We don't know he will.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201003060MIL.html

56% shooting, 15 points, 9 rebounds, and Varejao had 5 fouls in 25 minutes.

Tell us why that won't happen again.

Is that the only sample?

I went through the last 3 years of box scores...in every other game vs Bogut its pretty clear they used Shaq, Big Z, or some other combo to fill those minutes. Varejao was paired with them for a defensive monster, but wasn't guarding Bogut.

So there's about a 50-50 chance that would or would not happen again?

No, because this isn't a coin flip. Its one guy having a height, strength, and skill disadvantage going against a taller, stronger, more skilled opponent. Its not really chance at all.

[Fafnir]

IP/Mgent how do you see the rebounding/possession battle working out for your respective teams.