CB DRAFT FINALS THREAD: Sixers Win!!!!!!!

[Redz]

After having several more hours to think about this...  I still don't see how anybody objectively thinks that the best team defense in the CB-NBA plus the league's most clutch superstar would lose to a team that starts Carlos Delfino, James Harden, and Kyle Lowry.  

This is what jumped out at me.  I haven't been following this thing until the Final (there's just too much to digest), but it must have been interesting to see how that core got Portland to this point. 

They must have done some fine jellin' 

[mgent]

I thinK varejo's defense at the 5 is getting greatly overblown, especially in an era with few legitimate low post options. He is fine against the Kendrick Perkins' of the world, but stick him on a center with actual moves and or speed and he's not that good.

Then how was he anchoring a perennial top defense on the Cavs?  The year before last, he was finishing every game with Shaq on the bench, and before that he was still sliding over to Center whenever Ben Wallace, JJ Hickson, or Jamison were in.

[Roy H.]

After having several more hours to think about this...  I still don't see how anybody objectively thinks that the best team defense in the CB-NBA plus the league's most clutch superstar would lose to a team that starts Carlos Delfino, James Harden, and Kyle Lowry.  

This is what jumped out at me.  I haven't been following this thing until the Final (there's just too much to digest), but it must have been interesting to see how that core got Portland to this point. 

They must have done some fine jellin' 

Haha.  Thanks, Redz, for making me feel like I'm not crazy. 

[mgent]

I mean Roy, we just saw the best team defense in the actual NBA with Wade on it, lose because it had the exact same holes.

What holes?  PG?  C?  Bench?  My team doesn't have those.

Waiting for you to name a better defense too.

Spurs, Oklahoma City and the Kings had better team defenses.

Varejo is a hole defensively at the C, way more thanAnthony. D West is more of a hole than Bosh at PF and Hinirich is a comprable defensive player at this point in his career to Chalmers. Your best bench player is Kenyon Martin, there's was James Jones. Really not that different defensively.

Varejao played exclusively at center last season. He had the 11th best points allowed per possession in the entire NBA.  On post ups, he was also 11th in the NBA, allowing an anemic .64 points per post-up. 

Varejao was one of the best defenders in the entire league last year, and he did that from the center position.  There's really no justification for calling him a weak defender.

How about the fact he played 31 games last year, only 3 of which were against legitimate low post threats. One against Howard, Al Jeff and Marc Gasol.

Eh...  There aren't a ton of great post threats in the NBA.  Also, Varejao's numbers showed he was 11th overall, as well as in the post.  Therefore, the lack of low post scorers doesn't mean a ton, since he was great no matter what type of defense he was asked to play. 

Varejao played in 40% of the games last year, and played stellar defense against centers.  That completely contradicts your earlier observations.

It would, if he was going against a typical center. The fact that there are fewer low post threats in the NBA, and the fact that Varejo went up against 3 of the 4 at C exactly once each helps my position that those stats really don't matter much for this match up. WHereas IPs stats about how Bogut did against varejo do. As does the fact that the Cavs, a stout defensive teams, never started varejo at C over Big freaking Z. They also felt the need to go get Shaq after getting burned by Dwight.


::::Drops Mic:::::::


I gotta go, I have a job interview of a lifetime coming up and I'm here talking to you schlubs. We all know my vote is going to the Blazers. And to paraphrase a great man-- who apparently never means what he says-- " IP can defend his own team".

Wait a minute when did IP post stats that show how good Bogut is vs. Varejao?

The only stats I'm aware of is these:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=bogutan01&p2=varejan01

[The Walker Wiggle]

Trailblazers in six.

[mgent]

After having several more hours to think about this...  I still don't see how anybody objectively thinks that the best team defense in the CB-NBA plus the league's most clutch superstar would lose to a team that starts Carlos Delfino, James Harden, and Kyle Lowry.  

This is what jumped out at me.  I haven't been following this thing until the Final (there's just too much to digest), but it must have been interesting to see how that core got Portland to this point. 

They must have done some fine jellin' 

Like a felon 

[Roy H.]

Wait a minute when did IP post stats that show how good Bogut is vs. Varejao?

The only stats I'm aware of is these:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=bogutan01&p2=varejan01

IP convinced people to ignore the history of games, and to only focus on the last one.  In other words, don't point out that Varejao has held Bogut to 7 points or less in 3 of the past 4 matchups.

[indeedproceed]

Is it weird that I kinda feel like mgent and I have no sway at all in this debate? Ah well, I've said my piece. If you're buyin you're buyin, if you're not you're not. I'm gonna go find some buddies to drink some beer with and explain to them why Kyle Lowry and James harden are on he precipice of something great....as well as what happens when Roy H., Judas, and Brutus walk into a bar.

I know it was you, Fredo. You broke my heart......YOU BROKE MY HEART!

But one last point for all you hobbsian acolytes out there...you may not like that a team started Lowry, Harden, and Delfino made it to the finals...but they did, and they made it though the tougher conference. So the whole point of 'I couldn't vote for a team that starts....' is frankly asinine. If those guys didn't produce, my team wouldn't have gotten here, past Westbrook and Boozer, past Garnett and Pierce, or past Lebron James. They must have done something special... But now some people are acting like the bottom fell out from under my team or something.

Well, this is the fantasy you voted for. Pretending that it's real now, well that's just cheating.

Also Roy, read the posts. I pointed out that varejao hasn't been asked to guard Bogut. And that's true. Look at the boxscores. JEez.

[mgent]

The West was stronger at the bottom, not the top.  Sixers won the best division and pretty much swept the first two rounds (3 votes each).

So they have a ton of rest and homecourt!

[mgent]

Try talking to Edgar, I haven't swayed him into voting for me once!

[Edgar]

sorry Mgent

but I am not in love with your team from the beggining
to be honest other than wade your team is made pretty from the things you find around and even when varejao is servicable hes just post injury
West doesnt have a heart nor the talent of the  next level
and IGGY is pretty much one of the players i hate the most

I dont like Portland team either but i really dont understand how this year peoples likes were

Nothing close as how i see basketball for sure


my vote is Portland

 

[mgent]

sorry Mgent

but I am not in love with your team from the beggining
to be honest other than wade your team is made pretty from the things you find around and even when varejao is servicable hes just post injury
West doesnt have a heart nor the talent of the  next level
and IGGY is pretty much one of the players i hate the most

I dont like Portland team either but i really dont understand how this year peoples likes were

Nothing close as how i see basketball for sure


my vote is Portland

 

West is a vampire and doesn't have the talent of the next level, but Portland's 3rd best player does?  Kyle Lowry??

You'd think having the name West was enough.

[Roy H.]

Jeez, I wasn't aware of the anti-Iguodala bias out there.  The guy is overpaid, but he's a heck of a player.  Great athlete, great defender, great passer, good scorer, high basketball IQ, accepting of his role.  But definitely overpaid.

[mgent]

It's too bad that "Bogut help D" is Portland's only plan to slow down DWade.

[mgent]

"IP over hypes us in CB Drafts but he never told us what to do against Dwyane Wade"