CB DRAFT FINALS THREAD: Sixers Win!!!!!!!

[mgent]

Well overall Wade still did what you would expect from him (especially with BallHog James).  25/7/4 on 49% shooting.

So go ahead throw out Wade's numbers vs. Chicago.  I'll just compare Amare's best playoff numbers to Wade's best playoff numbers.

[Fafnir]

I think Roy's calling for this year's playoff stats again.

Amare's playoff averages:  14.5ppg, 7.8rpg, 1.8 apg,  38% shooting
Wade's finals averages:  26.5ppg, 7rpg, 5.2apg,  55% shooting

I really dislike this argument you should retire it, especially given how Amar'e was killing the C's before his injury.

I mean IP could post the stats from last three chicago games where Wade played like garbage, but that wouldn't tell you much about Wade's playoff performance.

Yeah, the only thing it tells you is that Wade played better injured than Amare did.

True, but injuries aren't created equally either. Wade was out there and moving fine, he just looked off. (it was supposedly the shoulder he's had issue with before right)

Amar'e's injury was his back and noticably he couldn't even move out there normally. No athleticism or fluidity to his game after he tweaked it.

[mgent]

Roy,

It's because I don't believe that the 76ers have the best team defense in the CBNBA that I don't think they have a prayer of winning this series. Hinrich has lost a step defensively. varejo is bad defender at the 5 spot against quality offensive 5s. David West at his best was an alright defender at the 4 who couldn't contain athletic 4s. They have two tremendous wing defenders, but almost none of IPs attack comes from the wings. I see the 76ers as poor copy of this past years heat. A team with tremendous defense that could contain opposing wings but could not adequately contain offensive pressure coming from the 4 and the Point Guard. Add in Bogut and that's simply too much for the 76ers to contain.

Name one better team defense or overall defense.

[mgent]

I think Roy's calling for this year's playoff stats again.

Amare's playoff averages:  14.5ppg, 7.8rpg, 1.8 apg,  38% shooting
Wade's finals averages:  26.5ppg, 7rpg, 5.2apg,  55% shooting

I really dislike this argument you should retire it, especially given how Amar'e was killing the C's before his injury.

I mean IP could post the stats from last three chicago games where Wade played like garbage, but that wouldn't tell you much about Wade's playoff performance.

Yeah, the only thing it tells you is that Wade played better injured than Amare did.

True, but injuries aren't created equally either. Wade was out there and moving fine, he just looked off. (it was supposedly the shoulder he's had issue with before right)

Amar'e's injury was his back and noticably he couldn't even move out there normally. No athleticism or fluidity to his game after he tweaked it.

He also had no jump shot whatsoever.

Fair enough though.  I think me and IP both conceded that Bogut, Amare, West, and KMart are healthy.

[Fafnir]

I think me and IP both conceded that Bogut, Amare, West, and KMart are healthy.

Yeah its more fun that way, I think both teams have fairly equal injury concerns. Wade has had his issues in the past as well, best to imagine everyone at relativly full strength even though it never works out that way. (Poor Rondo  )

[KCattheStripe]

I mean Roy, we just saw the best team defense in the actual NBA with Wade on it, lose because it had the exact same holes.

[dark_lord]

After having several more hours to think about this...  I still don't see how anybody objectively thinks that the best team defense in the CB-NBA plus the league's most clutch superstar would lose to a team that starts Carlos Delfino, James Harden, and Kyle Lowry.  

The unfocused / undisciplined Amare Stoudemire is going to carry a team on his shoulders to victory (against a good defensive front line)?  On what planet?

All the people saying "I don't like Iguodala"...  are you huge Carlos Delfino fans?  Do you think James Harden suddenly became a consistent player?  Is Kyle Lowry appreciably better than the 13 ppg scorer he was in every month outside of one last year?  (The same Kyle Lowry who can't stand internal competition on his team?)  

All the people saying "I don't think David West will be healthy"...  do you really think Bogut would be?  And who are you more comfortable with, a team with Robin Lopez as a backup, or Kenyon Martin?

People get upset about me wondering if they're being truly objective, but for the life of me I can't understand why people are picking at nits with the Sixers, while just accepting that Kyle Lowry, James Harden, and Carlos Freakin' Delfino are all going to be proven playoff players.

Again:  Dwyane Wade has as many career playoff minutes as Portland's top six players combined.  Doesn't that count for anything, even ignoring that Wasde is by far the best player in this series?

(Clarification:  just because I can't understand others' reasoning doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.  I just normally don't have this type of disconnect with my fellow fans.  I'd love to hear somebody -- other than IP's -- reasoning why the Blazers win this series, beyond "I like Portland's front line better" or "I don't really trust Iguodala and/or West".)

thats pretty much how i feel as well.

[mgent]

I mean Roy, we just saw the best team defense in the actual NBA with Wade on it, lose because it had the exact same holes.

What holes?  PG?  C?  Bench?  My team doesn't have those.

Waiting for you to name a better defense too.

[KCattheStripe]

I mean Roy, we just saw the best team defense in the actual NBA with Wade on it, lose because it had the exact same holes.

What holes?  PG?  C?  Bench?  My team doesn't have those.

Waiting for you to name a better defense too.

Spurs, Oklahoma City and the Kings had better team defenses.

Varejo is a hole defensively at the C, way more thanAnthony. D West is more of a hole than Bosh at PF and Hinirich is a comprable defensive player at this point in his career to Chalmers. Your best bench player is Kenyon Martin, there's was James Jones. Really not that different defensively.

[KCattheStripe]

And Frankly, I like my team defense more too.

[Who]

I voted for Philadelphia.

I think they'll win in six games with Dwyane Wade putting in a legendary performance en route to a Finals MVP.

[mgent]

I mean Roy, we just saw the best team defense in the actual NBA with Wade on it, lose because it had the exact same holes.

What holes?  PG?  C?  Bench?  My team doesn't have those.

Waiting for you to name a better defense too.

Spurs, Oklahoma City and the Kings had better team defenses.

Varejo is a hole defensively at the C, way more thanAnthony. D West is more of a hole than Bosh at PF and Hinirich is a comprable defensive player at this point in his career to Chalmers. Your best bench player is Kenyon Martin, there's was James Jones. Really not that different defensively.

Varejao is one of the best help defenders and a good anchor.  Not even in the same league as Joel Anthony.  West is an equal if not better defender than Bosh.  Hinrich is a better defender than Arroyo and Bibby, and a better shooter than Chalmers.  Kenyon Martin is a better 6th man than Jones, and the rest of the bench is better.

I can't tell if you're underrating the 6ers or overrating the Heat.  Aside
from Wade/LeBron/Bosh, that was one of the worst supporting casts ever.  They put it together was left over after the Haslem signing (Mike Miller) and all minimum contracts.

[Roy H.]

I mean Roy, we just saw the best team defense in the actual NBA with Wade on it, lose because it had the exact same holes.

It was the 5th best team defense, and that team lost because their best player produced at a much lower level than normal.

[KCattheStripe]

Varejao is one of the best help defenders and a good anchor.

At the Power Forward.

 West is an equal if not better defender than Bosh.

False. See Garnett Kevin and Boozer, Carlos for more details.

 Hinrich is a better defender than Arroyo and Bibby, and a better shooter than Chalmers.  

I didn't bring up Bibby because he was the back up PG as Chalmer's played starters minutes most of the playoffs. I also didn't mention Arroyo because he was on the celtics. i didn't mention Chalmer's shooting because we were talking defense.

Kenyon Martin is a better 6th man than Jones, and the rest of the bench is better.

I made a mistake, Udonis Haslem is a better bench player than James Jones and Kenyon Martin. James Jones is a better wing option than anything you have and Mike Miller is almost as good as Childress. Barbosa has regressed since not being in a system that you don't run either, also he's a sieve defensively.

[mgent]

I mean Roy, we just saw the best team defense in the actual NBA with Wade on it, lose because it had the exact same holes.

What holes?  PG?  C?  Bench?  My team doesn't have those.

Waiting for you to name a better defense too.

Spurs, Oklahoma City and the Kings had better team defenses.

Varejo is a hole defensively at the C, way more thanAnthony. D West is more of a hole than Bosh at PF and Hinirich is a comprable defensive player at this point in his career to Chalmers. Your best bench player is Kenyon Martin, there's was James Jones. Really not that different defensively.

Defensively:

Monroe < Varejao
Horford > West
Turkoglu <<< Iguodala
Gordon < Wade
Holiday = Hinrich
bench = bench

Dalembert < Varejao
Thomas > West
Artest < Iguodala
Bryant < Wade
Rondo > Hinrich
bench < bench

Kaman <<< Varejao
Boozer < West
Hill < Iguodala
Afflalo < Wade
Westbrook > Hinrich
bench < bench

Chandler > Varejao
Milsap = West
LeBron > Iguodala
Matthews < Wade
Billups < Hinrich
bench = bench

Kings are the only ones in the discussion.