CB DRAFT FINALS THREAD: Sixers Win!!!!!!!

[mgent]

The idea that Andre Iguodala can't play without the ball in his hands is a strange idea to me.  He shared the ball with Allen Iverson, and he shared the ball with Jrue Holiday / Lou Williams.

Iggy only became a prolific score after Iverson left.

And his scoring dropped to 14ppg this past season.

Yet averaged 18 the 4 years before that.  To say he's an incapable scorer is ridiculous.  He doesn't have the best jump shot, but makes up for it by being one of the best slashers in the league.  And when that jump shot is falling he's unstoppable because he can get his shot any time (remember that game he stole from Boston this year).

[Roy H.]

The idea that Andre Iguodala can't play without the ball in his hands is a strange idea to me.  He shared the ball with Allen Iverson, and he shared the ball with Jrue Holiday / Lou Williams.

Iggy only became a prolific score after Iverson left.

And his scoring dropped to 14ppg this past season.

Alongside D. Wade and David West, though, do you need much more than 14 ppg, so long as you're getting Iggy's ball movement, rebounding, and superb defense, as well?

I have no doubt in my mind, though, that Iguodala will be able to outperform 14 ppg if he's defended by Carlos Delfino, James Harden, or Derrick Williams and is treated like Philly's 3rd offensive option.

[mgent]

Iguoadala is a terrible spot uP shooter though...so is wade. Another reason I'm gonna win...lack of shooters. Your guys need to put the ball on he floor to score.

Also to dark-lord.... I don't agree at all with just about anything you said there. Why can't my guys getthw bigs the ball? Because of some kind of forcefield?

And why can't they get garbage points? Theyre both better rebounders than their counterparts.

AlsO, how is iggy that good off the ball? With his sub 30% shooting midrange game? The guy is about as reliable a shooter as....something that is not very reliable.

Well for one, he's very good at cuts to the basket (and Wade/Hinrich will find him better than Lou Williams).

[mgent]

The idea that Andre Iguodala can't play without the ball in his hands is a strange idea to me.  He shared the ball with Allen Iverson, and he shared the ball with Jrue Holiday / Lou Williams.

Iggy only became a prolific score after Iverson left.

And his scoring dropped to 14ppg this past season.

Alongside D. Wade and David West, though, do you need much more than 14 ppg, so long as you're getting Iggy's ball movement, rebounding, and superb defense, as well?

I have no doubt in my mind, though, that Iguodala will be able to outperform 14 ppg if he's defended by Carlos Delfino, James Harden, or Derrick Williams and is treated like Philly's 3rd offensive option.

Yeah, I heard someone say his scoring will drop to 12ppg beside Wade.  If Andre Iguodala is averaging 12ppg, then it's because Wade is averaging 40.

I see reasonable numbers being Wade 28-30, Iguodala 15-17, West 16-18

[mgent]

Iguoadala is a terrible spot uP shooter though...so is wade. Another reason I'm gonna win...lack of shooters. Your guys need to put the ball on he floor to score.

Also to dark-lord.... I don't agree at all with just about anything you said there. Why can't my guys getthw bigs the ball? Because of some kind of forcefield?

And why can't they get garbage points? Theyre both better rebounders than their counterparts.

AlsO, how is iggy that good off the ball? With his sub 30% shooting midrange game? The guy is about as reliable a shooter as....something that is not very reliable.

Well for one, he's very good at cuts to the basket (and Wade/Hinrich will find him better than Lou Williams).

Also, 52% of Iguodala's baskets were assisted on, compared to say LeBron James' 32%.

Can't play off the ball?  Ridiculous.

[Roy H.]

I'm also confused why IP regards Andre Iguodala as a terrible shooter, but James Harden as a good one.

Harden shot 34.9% on threes last year (4.0 attempts per game).

Iguodala shot 33.7% on three last year (2.7 attempts per game).

That difference of 1.2% means that for every 100 shots, Harden makes 1.2 more three pointers than Iguodala.  At Harden's pace, that's about one extra three pointer every 25 games.

In other words, that's not a hugely significant difference, and certainly isn't the difference between a good shooter and a bad one.

[Who]

I have no doubt in my mind, though, that Iguodala will be able to outperform 14 ppg if he's defended by Carlos Delfino, James Harden, or Derrick Williams and is treated like Philly's 3rd offensive option.

I think Delfino is a good defensive matchup against Iggy. He has the strength and enough lateral quickness to force him into heavily contested shot attempts. If Iggy is averaging much more than 14ppg, he is doing so on a lousy FG%.

As it is, as a 14ppg threat, I think Delfino will negatively effect Iggy's scoring efficiency and force him down into the 50-52% TS% range. 

Derrick Williams couldn't defend Iggy. Nor either of their two shooting guards, Harden or Morrow. Iguodala would light up all three of them whenever they are caught defending him.

However, IP is intending to keep Delfino out there whenever Iggy is on the floor. So those advantageous matchups will be minimized.

I am expecting Delfino's and Iguodala's scoring production to be fairly similar in this series. Comparable number of points scored on a comparable efficiency level.

[Who]

Alongside D. Wade and David West, though, do you need much more than 14 ppg, so long as you're getting Iggy's ball movement, rebounding, and superb defense, as well?

No, you don't need more than that.

Dwyane Wade and David West will do most of the scoring. Barbosa gives them another 15ppg threat. Hinrich is a double digit scorer. On that team, Iggy is fine at 14ppg.

Which is why I voted for Phily.

[mgent]

I would also add that I am a bigger fan of Andre Iguodala as a two guard than a small forward.

For two reasons - (1) the relative value of his rebounding is higher (2) with his size and power, he is a very tough post up player at that position and hence a superior shot-creator against solid defensive opponents.

A quickness mismatch is more valuable on the perimeter than a strength mismatch in the NBA (which is what Iggy has on Delfino).

I've said this multiple times, but Iguodala hasn't played much SG in his career, and has barely played it at all for the past 4 years or so.

[mgent]

Actually, Iguodala has a quickness and strength advantage on Delfino, like he does most players in the league.  Walking mismatch at both positions.

[Who]

I consider Iggy to be a very good complementary star.

I do, however, think that he is far from ideal as a complementary offensive weapon. Especially alongside a ball-dominant perimeter player + when used as a small forward instead of a two guard for reasons I mentioned earlier.

I think there will be considerable diminishing returns for Iguodala offensively if he ever moves into that 2nd or 3rd star type role. I don't think he'll be a 16-18ppg threat anymore. I do consider 14ppg to be the expected level of production.

I do think that his assists will fall alongside a ball-dominant perimeter star to around 4 a game with less touches. I do think his scoring efficiency is vulnerable to wild fluctuations depending on opponent due to his dodgy jump shot.

[Roy H.]

Dwyane Wade and David West will do most of the scoring. Barbosa gives them another 15ppg threat. Hinrich is a double digit scorer. On that team, Iggy is fine at 14ppg.

Yeah, that's how I see it.  I agree with those who don't love Iggy as a big time scorer, but as a third option, facilitator, and defender, I like him a lot.

[Who]

Actually, Iguodala has a quickness and strength advantage on Delfino, like he does most players in the league.  Walking mismatch at both positions.

Given Andre Iguodala's skill-set offensively, I do not consider him to have a matchup advantage offensively against Delfino. In other words, Iguodala does have an athletic advantage but his skill-level as a scorer isn't high enough.

Delfino has enough strength and quickness -- when playing in front of a defensive anchor of Bogut's ability -- to play Iguodala tough and force him into contested jump shots as he has shown in the past.

[indeedproceed]

Actually, Iguodala has a quickness and strength advantage on Delfino, like he does most players in the league.  Walking mismatch at both positions.

I think you're really overestimating iggy here and underestimating what delfino is capable of defensively. He can't pass as well as iggy, he can't slash as well as iggy, but he can hit a 3 ball better than most, and he's very good defensively. Since delfino has been in Milwaukee, delfino and him have performed pretty evenly. If someone could post my earlier post (iPhone sucks) showing the last 4 games, I'd appreciate it. Literally within a few points of each other in every contest.

Couple that wil lowry's advantage, stat's advantage, and boguts advantage, and you've got wade...without enough help.

[indeedproceed]

I didn't want to use this as collateral while votes were still being cast, and it looks like I've got few (but loyal) supporters, but hey, im gona say it now:

If I win, and Lowry and Harden both dont improve on their averages from last season, and Williams is an abject failure, I will not only be commish again (this is a task you refuse if you can as a mod...because it kinda sucks), I will abstain from being a GM again next year. That is how confident I am in my guys.