2011 CB draft: How does my team look?/division rankings

[action781]

So New York is now

PG - Deron, Jameer, Chalmers
SG - Meeks
SF - W.Johnson
PF - D.West, D.Blair
C  - Horford, Turiaf, Valanciounas

This trade was a huge win for you in terms of value.  Now you just need to move some pieces around for better fits without losing value in the process and you're team will be very much improved.

I would very much like this team if they had a better SF and not a frontcourt of West and Horford.  Too redundant.  I'm not and never have been sold on Horford as a true center.  I think he would be around the 6th-8th best PF in this league though (which is a position stacked with strong talent).  I'd like to see you trade West for a legit center and maybe pick up a starting SF somehow.  Then, I will probably love this team.

Or maybe move Jameer for a SF since he's completely unnecessary right now.  You have lots of pieces to work with, so the options are there for you.

[Roy H.]

there with Anthony Tolliver, who is a proven and valuable commodity and defender.

There are two Anthony Tollivers?

I love the guy, very nice, funny, and went to college in my home town, and was super cool in a charity game where I met him. But he's not a proven commodity as a defender.

He's been a rotation big for two of the worst defenses in the NBA, who have also been two of the worse teams in the NBA. He has value becuase he's quick and can shoot. But he's a poor rebounder and not a good defender at the NBA level.

You're telling me that Anthony Tolliver only lies in being quick and able to shoot? That he can't defend at the NBA level?

His ON/Off the court #'s say differently, Experts say differently, his fans say differently...

AND ROY HOBBS SAYS DIFFERENTLY!

Both Warriors and Wolves fans have constantly applauded his defense on various forums, and from the times I've seen him play, he seems to play defense intelligently and with a lot of effort.

I'm with you Faf, I used to hate on Tolliver's talents..but I was wrong. Come to the light side, Faf..the feel-good side.

Anthony Tolliver?

Ladies and Gentlemen!  I present to you this year's Ersan Ilyasova!

He's not a stud. He's not some kind of machine. He's 18 minutes a night of energy, hustle, decent defense, decent shooting, and mediocre rebounding. He's Glen Davis, if Glen Davis were a little more moderate and humble.

Besides this years' Ersan is Derrick Williams for me. (As in he's a player I believe in strongly that some aren't buying)

I'm definitely on IP's side of the Tolliver argument.  He's probably not a huge impact player, but he can bring hustle, defense, and outside shooting.  I think the BBD comparison is a good one, if BBD had a three-point shot and played more within himself.

[action781]

So New York is now

PG - Deron, Jameer, Chalmers
SG - Meeks
SF - W.Johnson
PF - D.West, D.Blair
C  - Horford, Turiaf, Valanciounas

This trade was a huge win for you in terms of value.  Now you just need to move some pieces around for better fits without losing value in the process and you're team will be very much improved.

I would very much like this team if they had a better SF and not a frontcourt of West and Horford.  Too redundant.  I'm not and never have been sold on Horford as a true center.  I think he would be around the 6th-8th best PF in this league though (which is a position stacked with strong talent).  I'd like to see you trade West for a legit center and maybe pick up a starting SF somehow.  Then, I will probably love this team.

Or maybe move Jameer for a SF since he's completely unnecessary right now.  You have lots of pieces to work with, so the options are there for you.

Starting to have second thoughts about this.  I don't like the frontcourt right now, but if you trade away Horford/West and don't get a center back unquestionably better than Okafor, or if you don't get a SF back unquestionably better than Ariza, you run the risk of looking awfully similar to the Hornets, which I don't think is a good thing.

[Who]

EDIT:  I like Jack a lot as a player.  I think Chauncey is a great fit next to Lebron and I think you should want to maximize their minutes together.  But with Chauncey aging and likely unable to play more than 32 min per game effectively, I think you should try to maximize their minutes together, then get a more scoring oriented backup point guard who can create offense with Lebron out of the game.  A Brandon Jennings type would be interesting and I know IP would back you up that!

Yes, I was surprised by the Jarret Jack selection too.

I thought a Leandro Barbosa type would have been wonderful for the Kings.

[action781]

EDIT:  I like Jack a lot as a player.  I think Chauncey is a great fit next to Lebron and I think you should want to maximize their minutes together.  But with Chauncey aging and likely unable to play more than 32 min per game effectively, I think you should try to maximize their minutes together, then get a more scoring oriented backup point guard who can create offense with Lebron out of the game.  A Brandon Jennings type would be interesting and I know IP would back you up that!

Yes, I was surprised by the Jarret Jack selection too.

I thought a Leandro Barbosa type would have been wonderful for the Kings.

Oooooh, I agree.  I think lots of recently drafted PG like Dragic, Jeff Teague, Aaron Brooks, JJ Barea, even T-Mac woulda been nice too.  I'm sure some of them could probably be traded for

[Edgar]

new roster updated
lots of versatility now

Again

All pandas are for sale

Offering multi player deals on both sides!!!!!!

[indeedproceed]

Why James Harden is likely as good as any third option you have next year:

James Harden technically already broke out during the NBA Playoffs. But I believe he will make an even bigger improvement during the upcoming NBA season.

Throughout the second half of the season, Harden was among the game's best bench scorers, and next year he will be thrust into OKC's starting lineup. Thabo Sefolasha proved his offensive inability during the playoffs, and seemingly every time Harden came into the game, he changed the pace of the game.

Harden received tons of exposure during the Playoffs, but he also struggled with his consistency. Some games, Harden would be the floor general, scoring at will off of pick-and-roll actions or finding open teammates for easy layups. However, in others, he would be a non-factor and disappear, often times resulting in an Oklahoma City loss. His jump shot needs to become more consistent from downtown.

Although it will be hard for James to get sufficient touches with Westbrook and Durant already taking most of the shots, Harden proved during the playoffs that he may indeed be a better offensive facilitator than Russell Westbrook, and I believe the coaching staff will take note of this and run more isolation and pick-and-roll plays for Harden.

James Harden is not super quick, but he gets into the lane at will. Not only can he score, but he can create for others at any time. During the next NBA season, James Harden will make great strides and post numbers around 18/5/5.

[BASS_THUMPER]

All pandas are for sale

is that legal?

[indeedproceed]

Why my team is better defensively than you know:

I have two of Basketball Prospectus's 'Every Play Counts' All-Defensive Players

POINT GUARD

First Team - Kyle Lowry, Houston
A long-time recipient of honorable mention accolades, Lowry took a leap forward this year by playing his best defensive basketball as a starter. Lowry's strength and low center of gravity allow him to play much bigger than his height (just 6'0"). Meanwhile, Lowry is also quick for the position and racks up steals. The Rockets struggled defensively this season, but they were far better with Lowry on the floor, allowing 6.3 fewer points per 100 possessions.

Center
Second Team - Andrew Bogut, Milwaukee
Bogut's nasty elbow injury limited his offense all season long, but it had no such impact on his defense. Bogut ranked eighth in the league in block percentage, trailing just three players who saw starters' minutes. Quietly, the Bucks were a top-tier defensive team in the midst of a disappointing season, ranking fourth in the league in Defensive Rating. Bogut made that happen both with his help defense in the paint and his rebounding. Bogut is also handy for a 7-footer when it comes to stepping away from the basket.

[indeedproceed]

Also to those who put down the Tony Allen+Maggette for James Harden trade:

SHOOTING GUARD

First Team - Tony Allen, Memphis
The reason Allen merits defensive recognition this season is his improved offense. That sounds silly at first glance, but Allen's unexpected development into a reliable scoring option allowed the Grizzlies to start him over the second half of the season, giving him the kind of minutes necessary to make my All-Defensive Team. Allen's defensive prowess was no secret in Boston; he's defended Kobe Bryant as well as anyone in the league, for example. However, Allen used to give back that production with silly turnovers and misses around the rim. What makes Allen unique defensively is that he's a stopper who also racks up steals. In fact, he led the NBA in steal percentage for the second consecutive season, and nobody else was particularly close.

[Gainesville Celtic]

So New York is now

PG - Deron, Jameer, Chalmers
SG - Meeks
SF - W.Johnson
PF - D.West, D.Blair
C  - Horford, Turiaf, Valanciounas

This trade was a huge win for you in terms of value.  Now you just need to move some pieces around for better fits without losing value in the process and you're team will be very much improved.

I would very much like this team if they had a better SF and not a frontcourt of West and Horford.  Too redundant.  I'm not and never have been sold on Horford as a true center.  I think he would be around the 6th-8th best PF in this league though (which is a position stacked with strong talent).  I'd like to see you trade West for a legit center and maybe pick up a starting SF somehow.  Then, I will probably love this team.

Our team is not without flaws... but West and Horford redundant? Horford not a legit center??


West is a jump shooting PF (72% of his shots were jump shots) while Horford takes nearly 1/2 his shots inside the paint. This is the exact reason I took West b/c offensively he complemented Horford's game.


At 7.6 boards a game, West could do better on the boards; Horford is an above average rebounder.


Horford has shown he can very much be a "legit center" in the NBA (2 all-star appearances in 4 seasons). The game is moving away from quote-unquote "true centers" to guys like Horford, Nene, Perk, etc.

Starting to have second thoughts about this.  I don't like the frontcourt right now, but if you trade away Horford/West and don't get a center back unquestionably better than Okafor, or if you don't get a SF back unquestionably better than Ariza, you run the risk of looking awfully similar to the Hornets, which I don't think is a good thing.

easy to say we might be the Hornets, but Horford >>> Okafor

Horford 15/9/3 + 1 blk +.8 stl
Okafor 10/9/.6 + 2 blk +.6 stl

Okafor is a slightly better defender, but is one dimensional & very inefficient offensively. Horford on the other had averages more assists than any other other big behind Blake Griffin and is among the most efficient big men in the League.

[indeedproceed]

Well defended GC. Horford+West is not redundant, and Horford is significantly better than Okafor. Maybe not as good a defender on the whole (I think Okafor is a better help defender), but much better in other areas.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

New Lineup for the Army Ants.

PG - Rajon Rondo / Marcus Thornton
SG - DeShawn Stevenson / Marcus Thornton / Terrence Williams
SF - Richard Jefferson / Reggie Williams / Terrence Williams
PF - DeMarcus Cousins / Tyrus Thomas / Andray Blatche
C  - Andris Biedrins / DeMarcus Cousins / Andray Blatche

Lineup changes defending on opponents.

[indeedproceed]

New Lineup for the Army Ants.

PG - Rajon Rondo / Marcus Thornton
SG - DeShawn Stevenson / Marcus Thornton / Terrence Williams
SF - Richard Jefferson / Reggie Williams / Terrence Williams
PF - DeMarcus Cousins / Tyrus Thomas / Andray Blatche
C  - Andris Biedrins / DeMarcus Cousins / Andray Blatche

Lineup changes defending on opponents.

Ty Thomas and Cousins I think would be the better pair to get the majority of the minutos.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

New Lineup for the Army Ants.

PG - Rajon Rondo / Marcus Thornton
SG - DeShawn Stevenson / Marcus Thornton / Terrence Williams
SF - Richard Jefferson / Reggie Williams / Terrence Williams
PF - DeMarcus Cousins / Tyrus Thomas / Andray Blatche
C  - Andris Biedrins / DeMarcus Cousins / Andray Blatche

Lineup changes defending on opponents.

Ty Thomas and Cousins I think would be the better pair to get the majority of the minutos.

That's actually the battle plan. Beans will start with DeMarcus for the first few minutes to get rebounds. Although he gets pushed around and has little to no confidence, he still contributes by rebounding and crashing boards.

Will bring Tyrus in to add defense. But if this team outscores the opponent Tyrus will be waiting until the my team's scoring slows down.